Troy Aikman vs. Steve Young

[Ness]

Steve Young lost in the playoffs only to Dallas or Green Bay, two great teams in the 90's. And then once to the Falcons, but by that time it was towards the end of the Steve's career, the defense wasn't that great, and everyone was getting either old or hurt.

[yourfavestoner]

Originally Posted by Ness

Maybe Kenny Stabler.

I was waiting for someone to bite with this answer. ;)

The Steelers and Raiders absolutely dominated the AFC in the 1970s. And I've made a few posts on here about how if the Raiders could have beaten the Steelers more than one time (in a game where the Steelers were crippled with injuries, btw), than you'd probably see Stabler replacing Bradshaw, Cliff Branch replacing Lynn Swann, Phil Villapiano replacing Jack Ham, and one of the two Raider safeties (Atkinson or Tatum) in the HOF.

Also, I wouldn't even say that Stabler was a better quarterback statistically. His QB rating was five points higher than Bradshaw's, but that was due to his completion percentage (likewise, Bradshaw's is so low because of his low completion percentage). Bradshaw, however, through for more touchdowns and fewer interceptions. Pretty much a wash there.

The ring is validation. It's what ultimately ends up separating the "great" from the "very good."

[Brent]

everyone knows Kenny Stabler and the 70's Raiders were ******* awesome, you dont have to argue that :D

[MetSox17]

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

I'm all about Joe Montana and Johnny U.

You know what I hate? People forget that qbs back in the day would call their own games. This tidbit gets lost in the convos of great qbs.

Johnny U was every bit the signal caller than Peyton is today. But no one remembers that football existed before headsets in helmets.

If Johnny Unitas had a week to study and prepare for Rex Ryan, he'd have a ******* heart attack. I understand how the guys back in the day did a lot of things similarly to what QBs these days do, but it's crazy to think that it isn't 100x more difficult now than it was then.

[yourfavestoner]

Originally Posted by MetSox17

If Johnny Unitas had a week to study and prepare for Rex Ryan, he'd have a ******* heart attack. I understand how the guys back in the day did a lot of things similarly to what QBs these days do, but it's crazy to think that it isn't 100x more difficult now than it was then.

It works both ways.

Quarterbacks today would **** themselves if their offensive linemen couldn't use their hands to pass block whilst defensive linemen can headslap the **** out of them. And their wide receivers could get mugged up until the point that the ball is in the air. And they can get clotheslined after. And with no rules in place to protect the quarterback, they'd be getting cheap shotted on almost every single play. Johnny Unitas created the two minute drill in those kind of conditions. That's insane.

[MetSox17]

Originally Posted by yourfavestoner

And their wide receivers could get mugged up until the point that the ball is in the air.

Peyton Manning knows all about this, and would probably have more post-season success if this wasn't still happening a few years ago.


As far as the rest of your post, ehh. I was hoping you wouldn't counter with that, but it is what it is. I know it will always be impossible to try to compare players from two completely different eras of football, but i think Peyton Manning would be an all-time great regardless of when he played. The fact that he's so good now, with the huge emphasis that teams put on disguising their defensive schemes, is extremely impressive.




Wait, why the **** am i talking about Peyton Manning?

[yourfavestoner]

Originally Posted by MetSox17

Peyton Manning knows all about this, and would probably have more post-season success if this wasn't still happening a few years ago.


As far as the rest of your post, ehh. I was hoping you wouldn't counter with that, but it is what it is. I know it will always be impossible to try to compare players from two completely different eras of football, but i think Peyton Manning would be an all-time great regardless of when he played. The fact that he's so good now, with the huge emphasis that teams put on disguising their defensive schemes, is extremely impressive.




Wait, why the **** am i talking about Peyton Manning?

So you're trying to tell me a guy who willingly surrenders to the ground at the first sign of pressure would be able be an all-time great in the most violent setting possible for quarterbacks? Color me skeptical.

When you're comparing players across an era, it's very difficult to do it in a vacuum. How much would Peyton's knowledge of present day offensive and defensive schemes going to really help him in that era? It would be worthless, since very little of it would be applicable to the game that he'd be playing in.

Conversely, why should we assume that Unitas couldn't have absorbed today's intricate offensive and defensive schemes? He was so far ahead of his contemporaries during his era that it's unreal - and you can argue that his style of play would have been far more conducive to statistical dominance in this era than the one he played in. He was ahead of his time in every sense of the phrase.

Also, to compare the holding and jostling the Colts received from the Patriots DBs to what was happening before the rule changes of 1976 is almost laughable. Imagine even more contact...with the receivers not being protected whatsoever after the catch...and Tarik Glenn and Jeff Saturday not being able to use their hands (forearms only) in pass protection while getting headslapped on every play by Seymour, McGinnist, and Vrabel...and Manning getting cheapshotted on almost every single pass attempt.

BF51 summed this argument up perfectly: "I know more than Galileo. But hey...everything is relative."

[Ness]

Originally Posted by yourfavestoner

The ring is validation. It's what ultimately ends up separating the "great" from the "very good."

I hope you're talking about the teams and not the individual players. Some of the best guys to have played the game went their entire careers without a ring.

[Nalej]

Originally Posted by yourfavestoner

BF51 summed this argument up perfectly: "I know more than Galileo. But hey...everything is relative."

Great ******* quote