NBA Discussion Thread

[M.O.T.H.]

They have zero interest in a deal that involves Felton. Billups is going to be 35, so I dont blame them, if they want to sit it out and hope Melo hits the market next year. They'd be far better off that way, with a much stronger nucleus.

[Da-Phins]

Originally Posted by BeerBaron

The KNICKS turned that down? Sounds like it would have been a steal on their end.

Yeah I wouldve done it but they thought that would be too much to give up for Melo.

If I was the Rockets, I would call the Nuggets right now and offer Aaron Brooks, Kevin Martin, Shane Battier and a 1st round pick for Melo. Brooks and Martin would replace the scoring of Melo and Battier has an expiring contract worth 7 million.

[D-Unit]

Originally Posted by M.O.T.H.

Dwight is just playing unreal right now. Everyone else on the team is terribly inconsistent, but Dwight has finally reached that level offensively, where he can carry this team on his back.

Oh, and we straight stole Earl Clark. I absolutely love this kid.

Bingo! Jingo! Jango!

[Rosebud]

Originally Posted by Da-Phins

Chris Broussard on ESPN said the Knicks turned down an offer that would sent 3 starters(Gallinari, Felton and another guy not named), Curry's expiring contract and a 1st round pick for Melo and Billups.

Thoughts?

I'm glad, Chandler, Gallo, Felton and a pick is just too much to give up when waiting for the offseason means we would only need to get rid of Chandler. It's not that Melo's not worth more, it's that if he wants to come here in FA we're going to need young pieces to build a contender around him and amar'e.

I mean the Lakers stole Pau Gasol for one good prospect and two late first rounders which is on par with what the knicks have already offered. I don't see why the knicks need to go that much higher from that offer just to get melo 4 months sooner. Wait it out and if Denver doesn't budge let the young guys get more experience by playing a bigger role in a playoff run and then focus on melo in FA where we'd be the favorites to secure his signature.

[senormysterioso]

I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that Melo signs with the Knicks, or even that he opts for free agency. It's not out of the question that the drawn out "Melo-drama" and the fact that they have rejected a trade that was on the table left a bad taste in his mouth and his desire to go to NY isn't as strong as it used to be.

[P-L]

If I was the Knicks, I wouldn't trade Felton either.

[scottyboy]

yes but now that the knicks are relevant for the first time in a while, their fans have been coming out of the woodwork like crazy and the media's all up on it. hence the "forgone conclusion" he's going to the Knicks. it's going to be interesting how it all pans out and if he actually does test the market

[SeanTaylorRIP]

Originally Posted by Rosebud

I'm glad, Chandler, Gallo, Felton and a pick is just too much to give up when waiting for the offseason means we would only need to get rid of Chandler. It's not that Melo's not worth more, it's that if he wants to come here in FA we're going to need young pieces to build a contender around him and amar'e.

I mean the Lakers stole Pau Gasol for one good prospect and two late first rounders which is on par with what the knicks have already offered. I don't see why the knicks need to go that much higher from that offer just to get melo 4 months sooner. Wait it out and if Denver doesn't budge let the young guys get more experience by playing a bigger role in a playoff run and then focus on melo in FA where we'd be the favorites to secure his signature.

Yet the window to land a superstar is so tiny and the Knicks barely escaped distaster this offseason by landing one of the several superstars available. IMO if you have a chance to create a dynamic trio of Stat, Felton, and Melo you do it. There are so many factors which could land Melo elsewhere. Maybe the Nuggets end up trading him to LA or Houston and he signs an extension, hell maybe he ends up signing an extension with Denver because he's somewhat comfortable there and wants to secure money. There is even a definite chance that with this new CBA the NBA implements a franchise tag which would keep these stars away from Free agency and take away their leverage, or maybe he doesn't even sign with the Knicks and ends up with the Clippers, Nets, Wizards, or whoever. The fact is while guys like Gallo, Chandler, and Fields are nice role players Melo is a superstar. You won't be able to extend them in the future anyways if you have Melo and Stat on your payroll, plus they play the same position as Melo. I just think while New York thinks that waiting till free agency is playing it safe, you are risking the chance that you are a perennial mediocre lower playoff seed type team. Amare is already 28 with a bad injury history, IMO if you have a chance to secure a superstar trio right now, you do it. You'd sure feel stupid if you end up not landing a star because you didn't want to give up Gallo, Chandler, or a mid first rounder. And I know some Knicks fans also have dreams of CP3 or D12, but again those are just dreams, like landing LeBron and Bosh.

[Rosebud]

Well if the Nuggets are talking to the knicks until the deadline waiting on Walsh to crack and take their offer they won't have time to get a better for Melo. I mean look if it came down to them trading Melo to Dallas or to us, I'd relent, but I just don't think any team is going to trade for Melo without an extension and I don't see him signing an extension with any team other than us right now, I might be completely mis-reading this and Melo might sign the extension or Cuban might just trade for him anywya, but that's not my gut reaction on this. *shrug* we'll find out soon enough.

And if we get melo for all of our young talent we'll be a perennial 2nd round and ECF loser, which isn't exactly what people who complain about being a perennial low seed would prefer. Melo, Amar'e and Felton/Billups is just never going to beat Lebron, Bosh and Wade without a much better supporting cast, the way boston's beating them, which the knicks won't have a chance to build if we trade all of our young guys.

As for superstar trios, you need a third star for that to work and while I love gallo, he misses too many wide open 3's and doesn't utilize his crafty passing and midrange game enough to be a 3rd star. In case you meant Felts or Billups neither comes even close to being a star PG. Billups is really old so the window to win would be tiny with him and Felton's decision making is atrocious when Amar'e's covered.

[LonghornsLegend]

Originally Posted by Rosebud

And if we get melo for all of our young talent we'll be a perennial 2nd round and ECF loser, which isn't exactly what people who complain about being a perennial low seed would prefer. Melo, Amar'e and Felton/Billups is just never going to beat Lebron, Bosh and Wade without a much better supporting cast, the way boston's beating them, which the knicks won't have a chance to build if we trade all of our young guys.

Yea but what is the alternate? I mean, are you gonna be better then Miami without the trade? So why knock the trade by putting it on that pedastal, nobody is probably better then Boston this year anyway so you'd at least set yourself up very nice for next year.


I just think Billups/Melo/Amare is a great core to build around, and I guess I don't think any of those guys are worth holding onto.

[M.O.T.H.]

Billups is no spring chicken....almost 35. You cant really "build" around him.

It's a gamble...but if they wait it out and they grab him in FA, they have a much better nucleus. Felton, Fields, and potentially even Chandler would all be in the mix still. Is it really giving up Felton for? meh. Good young PGs arent easy to come by and the window would be open much longer.

Sure it's not a certainty that Melo would be available or sign...but I think it's worth the gamble, if the Nuggets are firm on acquiring Felton.

[LTgiants]

Originally Posted by M.O.T.H.

Billups is no spring chicken....almost 35. You cant really "build" around him.

It's a gamble...but if they wait it out and they grab him in FA, they have a much better nucleus. Felton, Fields, and potentially even Chandler would all be in the mix still. Is it really giving up Felton for? meh. Good young PGs arent easy to come by and the window would be open much longer.

Sure it's not a certainty that Melo would be available or sign...but I think it's worth the gamble, if the Nuggets are firm on acquiring Felton.

They will lose Chandler anyway if they go the Knicks go Fa route with Melo. Cause Chandler is a RFA and no doubt is going to get a rise in salary.

[diabsoule]

Originally Posted by Da-Phins

Yeah I wouldve done it but they thought that would be too much to give up for Melo.

If I was the Rockets, I would call the Nuggets right now and offer Aaron Brooks, Kevin Martin, Shane Battier and a 1st round pick for Melo. Brooks and Martin would replace the scoring of Melo and Battier has an expiring contract worth 7 million.

I like what the Rockets are doing. They have a ton of young talent are all they're lacking is a legitimate center from being a DAMN strong team.

[draftguru151]

Wade and Bosh are gang banging the Pacers atm.

[SeanTaylorRIP]

Originally Posted by draftguru151

Wade and Bosh are gang banging the Pacers atm.

What was that you were saying? :)

[draftguru151]

Well it's not like they weren't the Heat just love blowing leads.

[nobodyinparticular]

Cousins with 14/11 in 16 minutes. He loves coming back from suspension.

[M.O.T.H.]

Originally Posted by LTgiants

They will lose Chandler anyway if they go the Knicks go Fa route with Melo. Cause Chandler is a RFA and no doubt is going to get a rise in salary.

I know he's a RFA...that's why I said "potentially". But yeah, they're the Knicks. They can match any offer, and I dont think they'd have any reservations in paying to keep him, if they really wanted him. The option would be there.

[yourfavestoner]

Originally Posted by SeanTaylorRIP

Yet the window to land a superstar is so tiny and the Knicks barely escaped distaster this offseason by landing one of the several superstars available. IMO if you have a chance to create a dynamic trio of Stat, Felton, and Melo you do it. There are so many factors which could land Melo elsewhere. Maybe the Nuggets end up trading him to LA or Houston and he signs an extension, hell maybe he ends up signing an extension with Denver because he's somewhat comfortable there and wants to secure money. There is even a definite chance that with this new CBA the NBA implements a franchise tag which would keep these stars away from Free agency and take away their leverage, or maybe he doesn't even sign with the Knicks and ends up with the Clippers, Nets, Wizards, or whoever. The fact is while guys like Gallo, Chandler, and Fields are nice role players Melo is a superstar. You won't be able to extend them in the future anyways if you have Melo and Stat on your payroll, plus they play the same position as Melo. I just think while New York thinks that waiting till free agency is playing it safe, you are risking the chance that you are a perennial mediocre lower playoff seed type team. Amare is already 28 with a bad injury history, IMO if you have a chance to secure a superstar trio right now, you do it. You'd sure feel stupid if you end up not landing a star because you didn't want to give up Gallo, Chandler, or a mid first rounder. And I know some Knicks fans also have dreams of CP3 or D12, but again those are just dreams, like landing LeBron and Bosh.

Exactly. With the labor negotiations so uncertain, you've got to take him while you can get him, even if you have to overpay to do it.

I can almost guarantee there will be a hard cap after these new CBA negotiations as well, so the ability to retain role players is going to be greatly reduced if you have to pay one or more max contracts.

[MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)]

Originally Posted by yourfavestoner

Exactly. With the labor negotiations so uncertain, you've got to take him while you can get him, even if you have to overpay to do it.

I can almost guarantee there will be a hard cap after these new CBA negotiations as well, so the ability to retain role players is going to be greatly reduced if you have to pay one or more max contracts.

There would need to be some major tinkering done to the system if there was a hard cap. I'm definitely in favour of that, though. Hard cap should lead to more parity, when the soft cap has done absolutely nothing.

NBA might even be worse than baseball when it comes to parity. And baseball hasn't even tried to address parity beyond revenue sharing.

[Rosebud]

Originally Posted by M.O.T.H.

Billups is no spring chicken....almost 35. You cant really "build" around him.

It's a gamble...but if they wait it out and they grab him in FA, they have a much better nucleus. Felton, Fields, and potentially even Chandler would all be in the mix still. Is it really giving up Felton for? meh. Good young PGs arent easy to come by and the window would be open much longer.

Sure it's not a certainty that Melo would be available or sign...but I think it's worth the gamble, if the Nuggets are firm on acquiring Felton.

This is exactly my problem. If we get Billups and give up 2 of Gallo/Fields/Chandler we're basically banking on being able to get Deron or Paul but won't have the pieces to actually do it.

We can't keep Chandler if we sign melo since we'd have to renounce his rights and the MLE to sign Melo, but if we're just giving up Chandler that's a lot better than giving him up alongside one of the other youngsters and putting all of our eggs in the Paul/Deron 2012 basket. However given how similar Chandler's and Melo's strong spots on the court are I almost want to see Chandler in this trade so that he and Melo don't get in each other's way. Gallo and Fields at least do a better job of spacing the court and are playing on much lower usage than Wilson.

Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend

Yea but what is the alternate? I mean, are you gonna be better then Miami without the trade? So why knock the trade by putting it on that pedastal, nobody is probably better then Boston this year anyway so you'd at least set yourself up very nice for next year.


I just think Billups/Melo/Amare is a great core to build around, and I guess I don't think any of those guys are worth holding onto.

The alternative is to wait for the summer and try to sign melo then when we'd only have to renounce Wilson Chandler's rights and trade AR for a draft pick. That would leave us with Gallo, Fields, Felton and Mozgov as key pieces to put around Amar'e n Melo, if that's not enough support at least we'd have the piece to put together a package for Paul or Deron that wouldn't be even more of an insult than this entire Melo-drama.

Mozzie's not star, but if he keeps doing what he's been doing since his return to the lineup he'd be a great fit next to amar'e. He can hit 15 foot jumpers, is rebounding well and blocks shots well. If he can keep getting more confident with his hands and learn how to play good one on one D he'd be an ideal fit next to Amar'e for when we went big. Felton won't be a perennial allstar but if he stops thinking he needs to be our second scorer he could be a really good tough floor general. Fields' rebounding instincts, smooth cutting, quick passes and ability to hit the open 3 make him a great complimentary glue guy type and Gallo could be that third option who usually just spaces the floor for Melo and Amar'e with the attention his ability to get hot from 3 attracts but is ready to attack the hole and put teams into foul trouble if they're overplaying Melo/Amar'e and leaving Gallo with room to drive.

So it's not a great supporting cast but they'd be really good fits and with their youth, work ethic and good instincts would still have a lot of room to grow if they weren't traded to bring in a real proven third star.

Sure we might lose Melo in this scenario but at least we'd have a shot at actually competing for a title and not competing for the right to be the last Eastern Conference team to lose to the Heat or Celtics.

Originally Posted by MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)

There would need to be some major tinkering done to the system if there was a hard cap. I'm definitely in favour of that, though. Hard cap should lead to more parity, when the soft cap has done absolutely nothing.

NBA might even be worse than baseball when it comes to parity. And baseball hasn't even tried to address parity beyond revenue sharing.

Yeah, I think a hard cap would also mean the cap moving up. To many contenders would have to gut key parts of their squad to get under a hard cap at current levels. Which makes sense, if they set the hard cap around the levels of the LuxTax, the knicks would then have the cap space to re-sign their young players if they broke out or at least the cap space to actually make a run at one of the elite PGs who'll be hitting FA in 2012, whereas now we'd have to hope they're cool with giving up 7 mil to come join Melo and Amar'e, aka not happening via FA.

As for the CBA I don't think they'd bring in a franchise tag this year, although I could see it down the road, and any salary roll backs would likely included a grandfather clause for players in FA this year. At least that's my gut feeling on the matter. So I very well may just be under-estimating how scary the CBA really could be to my Knickerbockers.

[MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)]

Originally Posted by Rosebud

Yeah, I think a hard cap would also mean the cap moving up. To many contenders would have to gut key parts of their squad to get under a hard cap at current levels. Which makes sense, if they set the hard cap around the levels of the LuxTax, the knicks would then have the cap space to re-sign their young players if they broke out or at least the cap space to actually make a run at one of the elite PGs who'll be hitting FA in 2012, whereas now we'd have to hope they're cool with giving up 7 mil to come join Melo and Amar'e, aka not happening via FA.

As for the CBA I don't think they'd bring in a franchise tag this year, although I could see it down the road, and any salary roll backs would likely included a grandfather clause for players in FA this year. At least that's my gut feeling on the matter. So I very well may just be under-estimating how scary the CBA really could be to my Knickerbockers.

Yeah I would think a hard cap would need to be up there. I wouldn't mind seeing it at current levels though so the Heat would have to gut their team...

[Shiver]

NY fans love the idea of having Carmelo, until they find out that D'Antonio will have him as the starting Power Forward.

[WMD]

Originally Posted by M.O.T.H.

Dwight is just playing unreal right now. Everyone else on the team is terribly inconsistent, but Dwight has finally reached that level offensively, where he can carry this team on his back.

Oh, and we straight stole Earl Clark. I absolutely love this kid.

Earl Clark is actually doing stuff? I liked him in that draft, I was hoping the Pistons would take him, and then the dickhead Suns picked him one spot ahead of us. Daye is coming along nicely though.

[M.O.T.H.]

Originally Posted by WMD

Earl Clark is actually doing stuff? I liked him in that draft, I was hoping the Pistons would take him, and then the dickhead Suns picked him one spot ahead of us. Daye is coming along nicely though.

He's been seeing extended time with Bass injured. He's shooting at a high percentage, rebounding very well, blocking shots. He's been impressive when he's been in there.

He's bound to start getting some more hype behind him...reminds me of the time we had Ariza. Clark is a fine potential player. I just hope we dont trade him.