NBA Discussion Thread

[bigbluedefense]

Originally Posted by Rosebud

Exactly why we need to hold onto Gallo, Fields and Mozgov to try and trade for Paul if Gallo fails to evolve into that awesome 3rd option I think he can.

That trade doesn't involve Mozgov or Fields. And if we sign CP3 in 2 years, you can't afford to keep Gallo anyway.

Let it go. Gallo isn't worth that much. For Melo? I'll drive him to Denver myself.

[Rosebud]

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

The Knicks don't care about this year. They're looking at the big picture. And the big picture is getting CP3 or Derron in 2 years.

Plus they can always build up that bench with time. Trade a bunch of role players for a star player? I'm down with it.

Plus we get to flush that turd down the toilet and I don't have to hear about him anymore.

Problem is with Melo n Amar'e taking over 40 mil of our cap we can't sign Paul or Deron without the cap going up a lot and so would have to trade for one of them, but without picks or gallo you think we can brainwash Stern into trading us Paul for Fields, Mozgov and some 2nd rounders?

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

Whatever happens, I think it's going down this weekend. It sounds like the only real players are NYK and NJ, and the final trade offers will be laid out by both teams most likely by Sunday.

So we'll know this weekend what the deal is. I just want this saga to end already.

Melo clearly wants it to get done this weekend since he wants that extension, that's why he's playing along wiht Denver and screwing the Knicks' leverage. That's why I say **** em. If he cares about his money enough to join a 40 loss Nets team, that has more losses than fans, him and Amar'e alone would never win a ring, so **** em, we should call that bluff.

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

The X factor in this is James Dolan. He's interfering with Donnie Walsh's mojo, and that's what's messing up the Knicks' confidence lately in their stance on Melo.

James Dolan is such a turd. He has Isiah Thomas constantly "consulting" him from afar and he's forcing the Knicks to get Melo no matter what. Denver knows this and now has leverage over us, bc they know Dolan will ship the whole team out for Melo and Dolan has final say.

So while Donnie plays it cool, Dolan is showing his hand, and Denver is laughing all the way to the deadline.

****** James Dolan. You asshole.

It's a combo of James Dolan's impatience and Melo's want for that extension. Melo wants that extension bad. As for Isiah, I think Isiah thinks he has a bigger role than he does. Him n Dolan are friends so clearly they're talking about this, but that doesn't mean Isiah's calling the shots on this.

[Rosebud]

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

That trade doesn't involve Mozgov or Fields. And if we sign CP3 in 2 years, you can't afford to keep Gallo anyway.

Let it go. Gallo isn't worth that much. For Melo? I'll drive him to Denver myself.

We can't afford to sign Paul if we give Melo his extension unless the cap goes up a lot or Paul is willing to sign for like only 10 mil. That's why Gallo's important, not because I love Gallo so much, but because a Gallo/Field/Mozgov package could give us a chance to actually trade for Paul or Deron.

[bigbluedefense]

You're not trading for Paul. If the Knicks ever had a chance of Paul, they'd have to sign him as a FA. And he'd have to take less money.

Even if you did trade for Paul, the money has to add up. So that logic doesn't add up bc you can't trade players unless the sum total of money is equal on both sides.

So basically, a trade for Paul is impossible the second you get Melo. The only way is to sign him.

I don't get the idea that Stat and Melo can't win a championship so let's not make the trade. Stat plus Felton and Gallo can't win a championship either, so what's the point?

You improve your team and give yourself a better chance to build that championship team around Stat and Melo.

This trade is a no brainer to me.

And the talk of CP3 is all speculation at best anyway. This is a known commodity that you can get. Waiting for CP3 or Derron is just an assumption. Get Melo while you can.

[Rosebud]

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

You're not trading for Paul. If the Knicks ever had a chance of Paul, they'd have to sign him as a FA. And he'd have to take less money.

Even if you did trade for Paul, the money has to add up. So that logic doesn't add up bc you can't trade players unless the sum total of money is equal on both sides.

So basically, a trade for Paul is impossible the second you get Melo. The only way is to sign him.

I don't get the idea that Stat and Melo can't win a championship so let's not make the trade. Stat plus Felton and Gallo can't win a championship either, so what's the point?

You improve your team and give yourself a better chance to build that championship team around Stat and Melo.

This trade is a no brainer to me.

And the talk of CP3 is all speculation at best anyway. This is a known commodity that you can get. Waiting for CP3 or Derron is just an assumption. Get Melo while you can.

Paul will get paid more in the first year of his extension than the last year of his contract which is why we could trade for him using Billups contract to make things match even though we wouldn't have the opened up cap space to sign him the summer there after.

The idea isn't that Stat, Felton and Gallo > Stat n Melo, the idea is that Stat, Melo, Gallo, Fields, Mozgov, Billups > Stat, Melo n Billups and that that group could organize a trade for Melo. I mean, if you're going to bank on Chris Paul giving up over 20 mil over 3 years than why is it ridiculous to expect Melo to give up 5-10 mil over 5?

[scottyboy]

well whatever, this just means my Favors jersey shirt won't be retro if we don't get melo, so i still kinda win

[bigbluedefense]

Originally Posted by Rosebud

Paul will get paid more in the first year of his extension than the last year of his contract which is why we could trade for him using Billups contract to make things match even though we wouldn't have the opened up cap space to sign him the summer there after.

The idea isn't that Stat, Felton and Gallo > Stat n Melo, the idea is that Stat, Melo, Gallo, Fields, Mozgov, Billups > Stat, Melo n Billups and that that group could organize a trade for Melo. I mean, if you're going to bank on Chris Paul giving up over 20 mil over 3 years than why is it ridiculous to expect Melo to give up 5-10 mil over 5?

Bc any speculation on Paul's contract is based on an assumption that the new CBA will be the same.

And it won't be.

Let's be real, the real reason why you don't want this to go down is bc you don't want to lose Gallo.

[Rosebud]

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

Bc any speculation on Paul's contract is based on an assumption that the new CBA will be the same.

And it won't be.

Let's be real, the real reason why you don't want this to go down is bc you don't want to lose Gallo.

I find working on the assumptions of what we have now much more useful than trying to guess what'll happen or basing our strategy on the hopes that the league acquiesces to our needs by putting the cap at the lux tax level, in which case we'd be able to sign Paul and Dwight, so **** gallo.

I like Gallo a lot as a player, but my problem isn't giving up Gallo, it's poor asset management, it's overpaying, it's continuing our tradition of giving up more than we have to and never pulling off the steals that the Lakers and Celtics do, it's just poor negotiation. If the talk where about Fields or Mozzie or anyone we wouldn't have to loss anyway, i.e. Chandler and AR, I'd be having the same reservations. It's why the Billups to Felton part is such a big deal for me.

[Chucky]

I don't get it. You have a superstar in your fuckign grasp for a very reasonable price yet want to keep holding out/throwing away more seasons for the chance at getting a different one. It's ******* ridiculous. Amare's knees are a ticking time bomb...I sure as hell don't expect him to keep up his current play for more than 2 years.

[bigbluedefense]

We're not the Lakers. We're not the Celtics. Why are you putting the Knicks on that kind of pedestal?

When the Lions go after a FA, they pay more than they have to. Why? It's bc it's the ******* Lions.

The Knicks are in a similar situation. The "luster" is gone. If you want that to come back, you need to overpay some to get some talent in here, then maybe other guys after that will take less to come here.

Once you realize we're not the Cowboys of basketball, that we're the Lions/Browns, you'll understand why being cheap for the sake of being cheap isn't going to work for the Knicks.

[bigbluedefense]

Originally Posted by Chucky

I don't get it. You have a superstar in your fuckign grasp for a very reasonable price yet want to keep holding out/throwing away more seasons for the chance at getting a different one. It's ******* ridiculous. Amare's knees are a ticking time bomb...I sure as hell don't expect him to keep up his current play for more than 2 years.

I don't get it either. It boggles my mind.

Do we not realize that the Knicks couldn't get Amare's knees insured in his contract?

And we want to ******* wait? Wait on what? Role players? I don't care what anyone says, if we get this trade for Melo, it's a ******* steal. A steal.

[Chucky]

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

We're not the Lakers. We're not the Celtics. Why are you putting the Knicks on that kind of pedestal?

When the Lions go after a FA, they pay more than they have to. Why? It's bc it's the ******* Lions.

The Knicks are in a similar situation. The "luster" is gone. If you want that to come back, you need to overpay some to get some talent in here, then maybe other guys after that will take less to come here.

Once you realize we're not the Cowboys of basketball, that we're the Lions/Browns, you'll understand why being cheap for the sake of being cheap isn't going to work for the Knicks.

I mean honestly...the only reason Amare came to the Knicks is because they offered him the most money...he didn't take any sort of discount at all

[yourfavestoner]

Originally Posted by Chucky

I don't get it. You have a superstar in your fuckign grasp for a very reasonable price yet want to keep holding out/throwing away more seasons for the chance at getting a different one. It's ******* ridiculous. Amare's knees are a ticking time bomb...I sure as hell don't expect him to keep up his current play for more than 2 years.

Not only that, but Paul's knees are time bombs, too.

[Rosebud]

If we're not going to try to win a title I just don't like Melo's game enough to spend the next however long until Amar'e's knees blow up, watching him and Amar'e loss to the Heat. If we want to win a title we need to get this superstar at a steal like the Lakers did with Gasol, if not I just don't enjoy watching Melo play enough.

[Chucky]

Well that just isn't going to happen. You can't rely on a deal like that happening. Of course Amare and Melo isn't the end-all to lead you to a title. But your current core is much farther away. And waiting for Deron/CP3/Dwight is beyond idiotic. I would have assumed Knicks fans would have learnt from the whole LeBron fiasco

[scottyboy]

...so the only chance you're saying is to wait for a team to hand over a superstar like the grizzlies stupidly did?
plus, they got Gasol in that deal, who's arguably better than any single player the knicks can offer.
if landry ******* fields or the rooster are the reasons the knicks aren't pulling the trigger, they're idiotic beyond belief.

[LTgiants]

NY Knicks are the Detriot Lions ? WOW GTFO BBD

[scottyboy]

Originally Posted by LTgiants

NY Knicks are the Detriot Lions ? WOW GTFO BBD

over the past decade, kind of. the knicks had the 2nd worst record in the NBA, better only than the clippers, over the span of 2000-2010.
while i disagree because of the history, tradition and the garden, it's not that far off

[fenikz]

I'll go with the Raiders

[Rosebud]

Originally Posted by Chucky

Well that just isn't going to happen. You can't rely on a deal like that happening. Of course Amare and Melo isn't the end-all to lead you to a title. But your current core is much farther away. And waiting for Deron/CP3/Dwight is beyond idiotic. I would have assumed Knicks fans would have learnt from the whole LeBron fiasco

*shrug* It's what Melo would cost us if he went to FA and I'm willing to call his bluff on joining a 40 win New Jersey team on which he'll be the leading rebounder.

[Rosebud]

Originally Posted by fenikz

I'll go with the Raiders

lol, that's actually exactly what I was going to say. We haven't been as abd for as long as the Lions, it's been an embarassing decade but I was proud of the teams we put together in the 90's, unlike Lions fans.

[scottyboy]

Originally Posted by Rosebud

*shrug* It's what Melo would cost us if he went to FA and I'm willing to call his bluff on joining a 40 win New Jersey team on which he'll be the leading rebounder.

oooh, a nice strawman baseless shot at the Nets. how clever.
although a team of Billups-Morrow-Melo-Humphries-Bropez isn't too shabby.
but hey, keep obsessing over an average SF/PF in Gallo.

[LTgiants]

Originally Posted by scottyboy

over the past decade, kind of. the knicks had the 2nd worst record in the NBA, better only than the clippers, over the span of 2000-2010.
while i disagree because of the history, tradition and the garden, it's not that far off

The Knicks are the most valued franchise in the NBA they are the Lions the most valued in football?

You can go back and look and oh look @ the Nets they used to stink before 2002 they were awful(Not a shot at you Scotty just cause you responded first).

That doesn't have anything to with today or have anything to with trades or F/A

[Chucky]

Originally Posted by Rosebud

*shrug* It's what Melo would cost us if he went to FA and I'm willing to call his bluff on joining a 40 win New Jersey team on which he'll be the leading rebounder.

and Melo doesn't sign then you guys are back where you are now....on a steady road to mediocrity. Althoug I guess the good thing is if the Knicks don't get Melo then fans will stop thinking they actually have a decent chance at getting superstars as they will have strucken out two summers in a row after throwing away the two seasons before that to even get a chance of trying.

[Chucky]

Originally Posted by LTgiants

The Knicks are the most valued franchise in the NBA they are the Lions the most valued in football?

You can go back and look and oh look @ the Nets they used to stink before 2002 they were awful(Not a shot at you Scotty just cause you responded first).

That doesn't have anything to with today or have anything to with trades or F/A

That really doesnt mean ****.

It's not like the Nets owner couldn't afford to buy the Knicks ten times over.

Phokorov is clearly going to be willing to spend just as much if not more than the Knicks