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Old 02-19-2011, 12:42 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Chucky View Post
Well that just isn't going to happen. You can't rely on a deal like that happening. Of course Amare and Melo isn't the end-all to lead you to a title. But your current core is much farther away. And waiting for Deron/CP3/Dwight is beyond idiotic. I would have assumed Knicks fans would have learnt from the whole LeBron fiasco
So we know that CP3 wants to leave NO. We know that he wants to play with Stat and Melo.

But we shouldn't wait for him.

What should we do then? Extend Felton? Develop Toney Douglas?

It's not idiotic at all to prepare for a DREAM scenario that all players also want. It's not like we're sacrificing anything by "waiting". We'll still play to win now.
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Old 02-19-2011, 12:43 PM    (permalink
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The Knicks are the most valued franchise in the NBA they are the Lions the most valued in football?

You can go back and look and oh look @ the Nets they used to stink before 2002 they were awful(Not a shot at you Scotty just cause you responded first).

That doesn't have anything to with today or have anything to with trades or F/A
oh, i agree, I was just trying to explain where BBD was coming from. the raiders is actually a pretty good comparison. I was just saying they were horrible the past decade, and that's what BBD was alluding to (i assume).

and this is true, it means little. the Nets were a damn good team just 3 years ago and now nobody wants to come here
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Old 02-19-2011, 12:44 PM    (permalink
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If the Knicks are anyone, they're the Redskins.
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Old 02-19-2011, 12:44 PM    (permalink
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That really doesnt mean ****.

It's not like the Nets owner couldn't afford to buy the Knicks ten times over.

Phokorov is clearly going to be willing to spend just as much if not more than the Knicks
NBA is a business and your goal in business is to make $ I am pretty sure it means a lot if you make more $ and have more to spend especially when it comes to sports.

He tried to buy the Knicks before the Nets and he couldn't get the deal done. I am sure you will tell me that doesn't mean **** just wanted to put it out there for you in case you didn't know.

OK Phrokorov wants to spend $ I don't care that has nothing to do with anything I am talking about.
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Old 02-19-2011, 12:52 PM    (permalink
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NBA is a business and your goal in business is to make $ I am pretty sure it means a lot if you make more $ and have more to spend especially when it comes to sports.

He tried to buy the Knicks before the Nets and he couldn't get the deal done. I am sure you will tell me that doesn't mean **** just wanted to put it out there for you in case you didn't know.

OK Phrokorov wants to spend $ I don't care that has nothing to do with anything I am talking about.
Phrokorov clearly doesn't seem like a guy who bought the team just as a business venture. Everything about him seems like he is another Cuban, who is the type of owner who is in it to win championships.

It's not like because the Knicks are more valuable that they have more money to spend than Phrokorov.

I don't get exactly what you are talking about then. Enlighten me
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Old 02-19-2011, 12:54 PM    (permalink
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So we know that CP3 wants to leave NO. We know that he wants to play with Stat and Melo.

But we shouldn't wait for him.

What should we do then? Extend Felton? Develop Toney Douglas?

It's not idiotic at all to prepare for a DREAM scenario that all players also want. It's not like we're sacrificing anything by "waiting". We'll still play to win now.
Unless you listen to Rosebud and say that you shouldn't do what it takes to get Melo out of hope of getting CP3 later. I don't get why you are constantly waiting to hold out for the next best thing, when their is a damn good thing right in ******* front of you. Clearly the Knicks aren't the pull that you guys think they are
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Old 02-19-2011, 01:00 PM    (permalink
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Phrokorov clearly doesn't seem like a guy who bought the team just as a business venture. Everything about him seems like he is another Cuban, who is the type of owner who is in it to win championships.

It's not like because the Knicks are more valuable that they have more money to spend than Phrokorov.

I don't get exactly what you are talking about then. Enlighten me
I have never seen the Cuban thing but that is a whole other discussion entirely.

Me bringing up value of the franchise's and the Nets are not inter related the value thing was merely just another way to say how they are not the Lions of the NBA. I could have went on a long rant but I figured just the comparing the value of two in their sports would have been enough.

I only brought up the Nets to show how past results have nothing to do with today and has nothing to with trades or FA like how BBD was trying to explain.

I wasn't trying to make a Knicks vs Nets argument at all.
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Old 02-19-2011, 01:13 PM    (permalink
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I have never seen the Cuban thing but that is a whole other discussion entirely.

Me bringing up value of the franchise's and the Nets are not inter related the value thing was merely just another way to say how they are not the Lions of the NBA. I could have went on a long rant but I figured just the comparing the value of two in their sports would have been enough.

I only brought up the Nets to show how past results have nothing to do with today and has nothing to with trades or FA like how BBD was trying to explain.

I wasn't trying to make a Knicks vs Nets argument at all.
The value of a franchise really doesn't matter much, and I don't think that is why he compared the KNicks to the Lions. It is because they have both been terrible teams for an extended amount of time. If value meant something then the Packers wouldn't have won the Super Bowl against the Steelers
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Old 02-19-2011, 01:17 PM    (permalink
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I think in 2012 Steve Nash will sign a final 2 year deal of his career with NY for maybe just the MLE.
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Old 02-19-2011, 01:24 PM    (permalink
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The value of a franchise really doesn't matter much, and I don't think that is why he compared the KNicks to the Lions. It is because they have both been terrible teams for an extended amount of time. If value meant something then the Packers wouldn't have won the Super Bowl against the Steelers
I understand value doesn't have anything to do with wins and loses but to me its a huge difference between the franchises. The Knicks have had more good years in their sport then the Lions have had. The Knicks have had a bad years no doubt but I dont think the Lions are the right comparison.

I understand that they are not the Yankess or Cowboys but they are not the same as the Marlins and the Lions and teams like that.
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Old 02-19-2011, 01:24 PM    (permalink
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If we're not going to try to win a title I just don't like Melo's game enough to spend the next however long until Amar'e's knees blow up, watching him and Amar'e loss to the Heat. If we want to win a title we need to get this superstar at a steal like the Lakers did with Gasol, if not I just don't enjoy watching Melo play enough.
I don't get it bro. You don't like Melo's game, but you love Gallinari?

wtf.

I can't wait until we flush that turd down the toilet.

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NY Knicks are the Detriot Lions ? WOW GTFO BBD
In terms of performance over the past 10 years? Absolutely.

Revenue is a totally different story. The Knicks were making more money than any team not named the Lakers the past 10 years. Now they've surpassed the Lakers. But how much money James Dolan pockets from the Knicks has no bearing on me as a Knicks fan. I could care less that he's cashing in on us.
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Old 02-19-2011, 01:26 PM    (permalink
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I understand value doesn't have anything to do with wins and loses but to me its a huge difference between the franchises. The Knicks have had more good years in their sport then the Lions have had. The Knicks have had a bad years no doubt but I dont think the Lions are the right comparison.

I understand that they are not the Yankess or Cowboys but they are not the same as the Marlins and the Lions and teams like that.
Fine then the Redskins is a better example, except they have had more recent success than the Knicks.

Marlins is a terrible example as they have actually had major success in the past 5-7 years
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Old 02-19-2011, 01:26 PM    (permalink
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I don't get it bro. You don't like Melo's game, but you love Gallinari?

wtf.

I can't wait until we flush that turd down the toilet.



In terms of performance over the past 10 years? Absolutely.

Revenue is a totally different story. The Knicks were making more money than any team not named the Lakers the past 10 years. Now they've surpassed the Lakers. But how much money James Dolan pockets from the Knicks has no bearing on me as a Knicks fan. I could care less that he's cashing in on us.
Sounds a lot like the Snyder-led Skins to me.
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Old 02-19-2011, 01:27 PM    (permalink
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If the Knicks are anyone, they're the Redskins.
If we're going to compare the Knicks to any NFL team, I agree that it would be the Skins. Both have owners with **** loads of money and neither have a clue of what they're doing.
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Old 02-19-2011, 01:31 PM    (permalink
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Sounds a lot like the Snyder-led Skins to me.
Skins are probably the best analogy.

Either way, I'm sure everyone gets the point.


This is an unusual situation where you can trade a bunch of role players for a star player. Our organization will be beyond idiotic if he doesn't take advantage of it.

I think we're applying NFL draft mentality to basketball too often here. Basketball is nothing like football.
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Old 02-19-2011, 01:34 PM    (permalink
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I think in 2012 Steve Nash will sign a final 2 year deal of his career with NY for maybe just the MLE.
Nash and D'Antoni didn't have the greatest relationship, but neither did he and Amar'e but it would shock me if Nash ended his career anywhere else besides Phoenix
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Old 02-19-2011, 01:34 PM    (permalink
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Fine then the Redskins is a better example, except they have had more recent success than the Knicks.

Marlins is a terrible example as they have actually had major success in the past 5-7 years
I know I was debating between Royals, Marlins and someone else just want with the flow and said Marlins but you understood my point.



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In terms of performance over the past 10 years? Absolutely.

Revenue is a totally different story. The Knicks were making more money than any team not named the Lakers the past 10 years. Now they've surpassed the Lakers. But how much money James Dolan pockets from the Knicks has no bearing on me as a Knicks fan. I could care less that he's cashing in on us.
BBD you can pick any franchise you want and take any stretch of time and compare them to a bad team I did it before with the Nets it's meaningless and has nothing to with do today or help improving your team today.
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Old 02-19-2011, 01:34 PM    (permalink
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I'm with you BBD. Role players can be replaced and if you get a chance to get a talent like Melo, you do it.
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Old 02-19-2011, 01:35 PM    (permalink
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Nash and D'Antoni didn't have the greatest relationship, but neither did he and Amar'e but it would shock me if Nash ended his career anywhere else besides Phoenix
I'm telling you dude, he's going to Dallas to reunite with Dirk. Maybe not this year, but it'll happen eventually.
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Old 02-19-2011, 01:39 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by LTgiants View Post
I know I was debating between Royals, Marlins and someone else just want with the flow and said Marlins but you understood my point.





BBD you can pick any franchise you want and take any stretch of time and compare them to a bad team I did it before with the Nets it's meaningless and has nothing to with do today or help improving your team today.
My point in using that analogy is, we can't just assume players will take discounts and leave their teams just bc they want to play for NY. That blind arrogance is an assumption that players view the Knicks the same way Knick fans do.

And that's completely false. Everyone thinks the Knicks are a joke. So when your organization is viewed as a joke, you need to overpay guys to get them to come here.

It was mentioned before, Stoudemire didn't come here bc it was NY. He came here bc we offered him a max contract without insuring his knees.

If we think we can use the "lure" of NY to assume everyone wants to jump ship to come here, we're wrong. That is not the case.

In that sense, we're the Lions. We are not an appealing franchise to most players. Melo is a very unique exception to this, which is why we need to take advantage of this situation.
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Old 02-19-2011, 01:57 PM    (permalink
LTgiants
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My point in using that analogy is, we can't just assume players will take discounts and leave their teams just bc they want to play for NY. That blind arrogance is an assumption that players view the Knicks the same way Knick fans do.

And that's completely false. Everyone thinks the Knicks are a joke. So when your organization is viewed as a joke, you need to overpay guys to get them to come here.

It was mentioned before, Stoudemire didn't come here bc it was NY. He came here bc we offered him a max contract without insuring his knees.

If we think we can use the "lure" of NY to assume everyone wants to jump ship to come here, we're wrong. That is not the case.

In that sense, we're the Lions. We are not an appealing franchise to most players. Melo is a very unique exception to this, which is why we need to take advantage of this situation.
I don't assume players will take discounts to go to NY. Players that come here generally it's for the $. Unless they are from the area and have made a good deal of $ already and just want to be back home. That one scenario is the only way I can see it and even that is rare.

We have been viewed as a joke I don't think we are viewed as a joke anymore. The Knicks don't have to overpay guys just to get people to come. Players aren't saying to the Knicks hey I will sign with the some other team for 6 million unless you give me 20.

They have over payed people sure so have every other team in this league has deals where they payed more then they should for a player

I think we got insurance on his Knees not full coverage but I think they have some but maybe I am wrong.

We are appealing franchise even in the 2000's we were linked to all stars like we are now with Melo. How many times has that happened with the Lions?
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Old 02-19-2011, 01:58 PM    (permalink
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How the hell did revenue get brought into this? BBD was clearly comparing the Knicks to the Lions in terms of wins and losses and not how much money they make. Do you root for your team to make money or to win games? What an irrelevant point.
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Old 02-19-2011, 02:09 PM    (permalink
fenikz
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I'm telling you dude, he's going to Dallas to reunite with Dirk. Maybe not this year, but it'll happen eventually.
I think that's more likely than going to New York
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Old 02-19-2011, 02:12 PM    (permalink
Chucky
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About Nash, I could definitely see Nash finishing up his career in Toronto. Would be ******* epic,especially if the raps are on the upswing in a couple years
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Old 02-19-2011, 02:13 PM    (permalink
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nash is going to finish with dirk. i agree with yfs 10000000%
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