NBA Discussion Thread - Page 2167

M.O.T.H. · 03-09-2011, 01:32 PM

Durant is far from overrated. He's the best scorer in the game. He's playing with a bum ankle right now, what do you expect? His percentages are just fine, too. He's at like .462 for his career.

yourfavestoner · 03-09-2011, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M.O.T.H.

Durant is far from overrated. He's the best scorer in the game. He's playing with a bum ankle right now, what do you expect? His percentages are just fine, too. He's at like .462 for his career.

I don't understand how a Laker fan can hold this opinion after watching Kobe Bryant for the last 15 years.

Forenci · 03-09-2011, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soybean

for all the flack the cavs have got for being a horrible supporting cast, like chris said, those teams were perfectly constructed for Lebron. They were all role players and that's exactly what you want surrounding a player like Lebron.

Why bring in another player who will take 20 shots and essentially take away as many shots from Lebron or the rest of the team.

I mean, they won 66 games with him... you want them to bring in a team so they can win 75 games? 82? Let's be realistic. those guys all perfectly complimented James. Of course they're struggling without Lebron, they're a bunch of role players built around Lebron... without Lebron...

Secondly, Kevin Durant is overrated. He takes too many shots and many times I've seen has a horrible percentage.

Thirdly, too bad Chris Paul is injury prone because if he never got hurt and kept his consistent level of play he would have been my vote for best player in the league...

The reason? He would essentially have no flaws as a point guard.

Hahaha! Having a horrible team surrounding you is actually better for you then having players who don't suck?

The Cavs are horrible because they have horrible players.

Sniper · 03-09-2011, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soybean

Secondly, Kevin Durant is overrated.

What is wrong with you?

D-Unit · 03-09-2011, 01:38 PM

Put Dwight and Wade together and they are better than Lebron, Bosh and Wade. NUFCED.

D-Unit · 03-09-2011, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forenci

Nobody can score, rebound and pass like LeBron.

That's not a complete basketball player. lol.

Kobe is still the best. Lebron never took that title away. Neither has Durant for that matter.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf) · 03-09-2011, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forenci

Hahaha! Having a horrible team surrounding you is actually better for you then having players who don't suck?

The Cavs are horrible because they have horrible players.

So LeBron got worse?

P-L · 03-09-2011, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soybean

for all the flack the cavs have got for being a horrible supporting cast, like chris said, those teams were perfectly constructed for Lebron. They were all role players and that's exactly what you want surrounding a player like Lebron.

Why bring in another player who will take 20 shots and essentially take away as many shots from Lebron or the rest of the team.

I mean, they won 66 games with him... you want them to bring in a team so they can win 75 games? 82? Let's be realistic. those guys all perfectly complimented James. Of course they're struggling without Lebron, they're a bunch of role players built around Lebron... without Lebron...

Secondly, Kevin Durant is overrated. He takes too many shots and many times I've seen has a horrible percentage.

Thirdly, too bad Chris Paul is injury prone because if he never got hurt and kept his consistent level of play he would have been my vote for best player in the league...

The reason? He would essentially have no flaws as a point guard.

It was never about the regular season. The supporting cast was fine for the regular season, but no one else ever showed up in the post season. Aside from the half-assed effort in Game 5 last season, LeBron has always raised his game to a ridiculous level in the postseason. All of his teammates in Cleveland stood around and expected him to take them to a title once the playoffs came around. People want to rip LeBron for poor effort in Game 5 and the end of Game 6 (rightfully so), but his teammates put in a similar effort that entire series. Mo Williams played well enough in the regular season to fool people into thinking he was an All-Star. Then by the time the series with the Celtics wrapped up, he looked like he shouldn't even be starting for my old high school.

LeBron didn't leave Cleveland because he was sick of not winning 70 games. He left because he didn't have the appropriate supporting cast to win 16 games in the playoffs.

D-Unit · 03-09-2011, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)

So LeBron got worse?

It's no question to me that Lebron is worse now than he was in Cleveland. He's no longer the man. He's dysfunctional. He's scared to be the one to miss too. The fact that Wade has asked to be the man to close out games says it all.

M.O.T.H. · 03-09-2011, 01:50 PM

May sound crazy...but I still think the Heat will the championship this year. I still cant wrap my head around a team with that talent NOT winning it. lol. They're playing like ****, but they still scare the hell out of me.

soybean · 03-09-2011, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yourfavestoner

I don't understand how a Laker fan can hold this opinion after watching Kobe Bryant for the last 15 years.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sniper

What is wrong with you?

He's overrated in the sense that he is not on the level of best player in the league yet.

He's pretty hot and cold. I mean he has 17 games this year where he's shot under .400

His team still has a mediocre record when before the season began you had all analysts pegging them as the 2nd best team in the west. Plus, he's had a decent team around him. That's why he's not at Lebron's level YET

BeerBaron · 03-09-2011, 01:58 PM

We're seeing Dwight and Rose both emerge as MVP caliber players, and Durant is always awesome...

I still think Lebron is the all around best player in the league, but it isn't as clear cut as it might have been a year ago with some of these other players stepping up.

Plus....Lebron just doesn't have the clutch gene. If I'm going to declare a guy as the hands down "best player in the league," it had better be a guy you can trust to take the last shot. (With the exception of Dwight because centers are measured a bit differently....)

yodapoop · 03-09-2011, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M.O.T.H.

May sound crazy...but I still think the Heat will the championship this year. I still cant wrap my head around a team with that talent NOT winning it. lol. They're playing like ****, but they still scare the hell out of me.

Yeah it may sound crazy. But it is possible. I know its not going well right now. Its called a rough sport. Plus in the playoffs a team has to beat us 4 times out of 7. The way they are playing now that wouldn't be a problem for the Celtics, Bulls, and prolly the Magic too in the east. We'll cross that bridge in the west when we get to it. But yeah, its gonna be hard to beat the Heat come playoff time.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf) · 03-09-2011, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M.O.T.H.

May sound crazy...but I still think the Heat will the championship this year. I still cant wrap my head around a team with that talent NOT winning it. lol. They're playing like ****, but they still scare the hell out of me.

I don't really see it happening this year, tbh. I think the Celtics will stop them. They still don't complement each other at all, and that won't change. Don't forget the Lakers of 03-04. Prime Kobe/Shaq+Old GP and Mailman, PLUS the role players of a team that had just threepeated are >> LBJ, Wade, Bosh. They couldn't pull it off, because they didn't work that well together, and also Malone was hurt, but still. Same deal.

I think they all thought it was going to be cake this season, and they're realizing it's not. Hopefully they all work on their games a lot in the off-season, because their problems are all stylistic and not talent-based.

M.O.T.H. · 03-09-2011, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)

I don't really see it happening this year, tbh. I think the Celtics will stop them. They still don't complement each other at all, and that won't change. Don't forget the Lakers of 03-04. Prime Kobe/Shaq+Old GP and Mailman, PLUS the role players of a team that had just threepeated are >> LBJ, Wade, Bosh. They couldn't pull it off, because they didn't work that well together, and also Malone was hurt, but still. Same deal.

I think they all thought it was going to be cake this season, and they're realizing it's not. Hopefully they all work on their games a lot in the off-season, because their problems are all stylistic and not talent-based.

Old Gary Payton and old Karl Malone. He was 40 and a Laker for like one year. But still...I could really care less what's going on in the regular season right now. These games really mean nothing to good teams. The playoffs are an entirely different animal. They scare the hell out of me at that stage. Plus with all this annoying negative media attention and what not...I just feel like it's all going to end up well for them in the end. I would never count them out. May sound dumb now, but I still favor that stupid team to win it all.

iowatreat54 · 03-09-2011, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soybean

He's overrated in the sense that he is not on the level of best player in the league yet.

He's pretty hot and cold. I mean he has 17 games this year where he's shot under .400His team still has a mediocre record when before the season began you had all analysts pegging them as the 2nd best team in the west. Plus, he's had a decent team around him. That's why he's not at Lebron's level YET

And 22 games where he's shot over 50%, 32 games over 45%.

Look I can use stats with higher volumes to make him look better.

Has Durant had some games where he shot poorly? Of course. But I wouldn't call 70% of his games over 40%, 55% over 45%, and 38% over 50% inconsistent.

I'm not saying he is/isn't overrated, but using the fact that he's shot under 40% in only 17 games isn't a very good stat to use in support given that the majority of the time he shoots much better. You can't fault a player for having occasional off games.

Lebron has shot under 40% in 10 games this season, and Kobe in 14. Let's not make it seem like Durant has a ridiculous amount more off shooting nights.

bigbluedefense · 03-09-2011, 02:11 PM

Miami still scares me too. You never know what could happen if they turn it on.

I know evidence suggests otherwise, but you just never know. In basketball, the cream always rises to the top. Talent wins.

There's still time for this team to get it together.

D-Unit · 03-09-2011, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M.O.T.H.

May sound crazy...but I still think the Heat will the championship this year. I still cant wrap my head around a team with that talent NOT winning it. lol. They're playing like ****, but they still scare the hell out of me.

Sound crazy? My how things have taken a 180 from the beginning of "the decision" to now. Everyone and their moms were thinking they had the next 5 championships locked up. Now it's a crazy thought? haha.

I don't think they'll win. I think they are dysfunctional. Why?

1. I don't think Lebron and Wade can co-exist and both be at the top of their games. Someone has to give. It doesn't matter what their stats say. They both can have 30 point nights in the same game. What matters is who the top dog, the alpha male, the closer is, the one guy that they rely on most... and that role will never be defined to be just one guy.

2. Wade and Lebron are near duplicates in regards to scoring. Both are at their best when they are driving to the basket. Neither have developed a reliable/deadly shot. It spoke volumes yesterday when Lebron was asked about Mike Miller's inconsistency from long range lately and he pretty much shouldered the blame on Mike to deliver when he gets the ball. Lebron said that Mike gets a lot of good looks because of the penetration and kickouts he gets from Wade and himself, and that he needs to deliver when given the ball to shoot. WTF is that all about? That's Lebron's job to be the main man to deliver! Not Mike Miller's!!! Fact is, Lebron can't do it. He's got to be in the zone in order to have the confidence to shoot the 3. He can't just do it unconsciously. The skill isn't developed enough. Same goes for Wade.

So what happens? Teams just have to crowd the paint. It's A LOT easier to defend the closed space in the middle than it is to be spread out across the court. Lebron and Wade don't space each other out because both of their natural tendencies are to drive through the lane. ...which is the area that Bosh operates in. So all 3 are trying to attack from close range and that makes it easier for teams to defend. Especially teams with size. What is their counter to that? Kick outs to Mike Miller? Umm.. yeah. Teams have found it quite easy to defend Miller who just sits out on the 3 point line. Just put a hand in his face.

3. Eric Spolestra is incapable. With every loss, his seat gets hotter and hotter. He was supposed to have the easiest job in the world. Just make sure the Big 3 are on the court at the same time. Again, it speaks volumes that he hasn't been able to make proper adjustments to get them back in their winning ways, develop specific roles, and the Crygate exposure he caused by publicizing what went on in the lockerroom following the loss was all on him! If he had just kept his mouth shut, the Heat would still have their manhood. Now, they're just cry babies being mocked by everyone including their peers. Ouch. Their losing streak is unacceptable. He might be Pat Riley's pet, but if they don't win the championship, Riley is going to have to make a change.

4. Stan Van Gundy was right. Bosh is just a lapdog.

Mr. Goosemahn · 03-09-2011, 02:46 PM

What "realistic" big three scenarios would you like to see in upcoming years?

My choices:

Lakers
SG Kobe Bryant
PF Pau Gasol
C Dwight Howard

I'd really like to see how well Pau and Dwight play. They're complete opposites but together would completely own the paint. Gasol with his finesse moves and skillful offense and Dwight with his unworldy athleticism and elite defense.

Bulls
PG Derrick Rose
PF Carlos Boozer
C Dwight Howard

Not so much a big three as a big two, but Rose and Howard together would be completely mesmerizing. Both are young too, they'd be able to stick together at an elite level for 8+ years, at least. I've always thought Boozer was a bit overrated, but with these two guys on his team he could play well. If they could somehow land someone like Andre Iguodala (who I like more than Deng), that would be one baaaaaadass team.

Maybe something like this (with cash and picks involved too):
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMa...radeId=4ln7vd9

Knicks
PG Chris Paul
SF Carmelo Anthony
PF Amar'e Stoudemire

This would be one very scary offensive juggernaut. Probably the most balanced too, elite distributor, elite pure scorer, and elite big man scorer. Defensively, they might not be great, but I think they'd be better than what people believe they could be. *Same scenario but with Deron at PG*

What other scenarios would you guys have?

MetSox17 · 03-09-2011, 02:48 PM

Kevin Durant/Russell Westbrook/Dwight Howard.

Dynasty.

BeerBaron · 03-09-2011, 02:49 PM

Meh, I like what the Bulls are building. If they keep their core in tact and add a shooter, they could easily be a regular championship contender. And they'd be one of those teams that star players hate to face because they actually do this unusual thing called play defense.

That Knicks one seems most likely of the 3 to happen.

M.O.T.H. · 03-09-2011, 02:49 PM

None...the league will go to **** if they keep up with this big three crap. Granted the same few teams seem to win the championship anyway (It really is a select group)...but talk about making basketball even less relevant for smaller market teams, and well, the majority of the league.

Chucky · 03-09-2011, 02:50 PM

By the time Dwight is a FA Kobe will already be pretty deep into his decline as a player. Don't really see him going there because of this

Mr. Goosemahn · 03-09-2011, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MetSox17

Kevin Durant/Russell Westbrook/Dwight Howard.

Dynasty.

Oooh, that's a good one.

Mr. Goosemahn · 03-09-2011, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chucky

By the time Dwight is a FA Kobe will already be pretty deep into his decline as a player. Don't really see him going there because of this

Eh, I wouldn't say pretty deep. It would be after next season, don't think Kobe will be washed up by then.

I'm intrigued as to how his decline will appear. He's obviously not the athlete he once was right now, but he's still playing at an elite level. Still clutch, still makes tough shots, and I've felt he's gradually increasing the amount of time he plays closer to the paint, but that could just be me.

I dunno if it's my optimism or not, but I think Kobe could still be a very good player in 3,4 years.