NBA Discussion Thread - Page 2168

Forenci · 03-09-2011, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D-Unit

That's not a complete basketball player. lol.

Kobe is still the best. Lebron never took that title away. Neither has Durant for that matter.

Yes it is. No one does more for their team to help you win than LeBron James. LeBron James has been better than Kobe for five years now, it's just people don't like LeBron enough to admit that fact.

LeBron is also a damn good defender (has improved a ton over the past few years), is able to play multiple positions ranging from point guard to power foward, makes his team better with his passing, is unselfish as a superstar, and is arguably the best rebounder on the Heat. I don't know how these things don't make LeBron the best in the NBA considering basketball is primarily about scoring, rebounding, passing and defense.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)

So LeBron got worse?

Not really, but having role players who suck and are able to to one thing well doesn't mean that it constitutes a great team. That is my overlying point. The Cavs basically thought they could substitute bringing in good players for mediocre/sub par players and hope LeBron carried them on his back. He did for the most part, especially in the regular season, but like PL said, that wasn't going to cut it in the playoffs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by D-Unit

It's no question to me that Lebron is worse now than he was in Cleveland. He's no longer the man. He's dysfunctional. He's scared to be the one to miss too. The fact that Wade has asked to be the man to close out games says it all.

How is LeBron afraid to miss? If anything, he's been the only player taking these shots at the end of games. Either Wade is afraid to take these shots or the coaching knows he's just as bad at it as LeBron and doesn't want him taking the last shot.

Also, where did Wade ask to close out games? I don't see why he would considering Wade is a horrid last second shot guy himself. Worse than LeBron.

Forenci · 03-09-2011, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M.O.T.H.

None...the league will go to **** if they keep up with this big three crap. Granted the same few teams seem to win the championship anyway (It really is a select group)...but talk about making basketball even less relevant for smaller market teams, and well, the majority of the league.

Wasn't the NBA basically revitalized on the notion of a few star studded teams constantly battling it out in the playoffs/finals?

I think it's obvious a few teams need to go, so that the smaller teams can have more access to talent via the draft and free agency, but I do believe come playoff time the battle of the "big three" type teams will create a ton of buzz and fun once they fill out the rest of their rosters in the next couple years.

D-Unit · 03-09-2011, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forenci

Yes it is. No one does more for their team to help you win than LeBron James. LeBron James has been better than Kobe for five years now, it's just people don't like LeBron enough to admit that fact.

LeBron is also a damn good defender (has improved a ton over the past few years), is able to play multiple positions ranging from point guard to power foward, makes his team better with his passing, is unselfish as a superstar, and is arguably the best rebounder on the Heat. I don't know how these things don't make LeBron the best in the NBA considering basketball is primarily about scoring, rebounding, passing and defense.

Not really, but having role players who suck and are able to to one thing well doesn't mean that it constitutes a great team. That is my overlying point. The Cavs basically thought they could substitute bringing in good players for mediocre/sub par players and hope LeBron carried them on his back. He did for the most part, especially in the regular season, but like PL said, that wasn't going to cut it in the playoffs.

How is LeBron afraid to miss? If anything, he's been the only player taking these shots at the end of games. Either Wade is afraid to take these shots or the coaching knows he's just as bad at it as LeBron and doesn't want him taking the last shot.

Also, where did Wade ask to close out games? I don't see why he would considering Wade is a horrid last second shot guy himself. Worse than LeBron.

Lebron is a guy near the top of the league in all around peripheral numbers. Doesn't make him the best player in the league. Lebron is not the killer that Kobe is.

Who's better at bringing you back in the game when you are down? Kobe.

Who's better at closing out games? Kobe.

Who's better at winning? Kobe.

Mr. Goosemahn · 03-09-2011, 03:02 PM

Adam Morrison's best contribution as a Laker: stealing a high five.

D-Unit · 03-09-2011, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Goosemahn

Adam Morrison's best contribution as a Laker: stealing a high five.

That's fricken hilarious! thanks! hahaha.

Forenci · 03-09-2011, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D-Unit

Lebron is a guy near the top of the league in all around peripheral numbers. Doesn't make him the best player in the league. Lebron is not the killer that Kobe is.

Who's better at bringing you back in the game when you are down? Kobe.

Who's better at closing out games? Kobe.

Who's better at winning? Kobe.

Uhhh, I'd probably say LeBron is better at all of those things. But you're pretty pretty vague at what all those things mean, so..

I'm also pretty confident (reasonable) Lakers fans would say LeBron is a better player than Kobe.

The one thing Kobe is better at is last second shots, but most games aren't decided on last second shots anyways.

bigbluedefense · 03-09-2011, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forenci

Uhhh, I'd probably say LeBron is better at all of those things. But you're pretty pretty vague at what all those things mean, so..

I'm also pretty confident (reasonable) Lakers fans would say LeBron is a better player than Kobe.

The one thing Kobe is better at is last second shots, but most games aren't decided on last second shots anyways.

Not all of them. But a lot of important ones, ie playoff games are.

Forenci · 03-09-2011, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

Not all of them. But a lot of important ones, ie playoff games are.

LeBron has also dominated numerous playoff serious too, which is just as important as hitting last second shots (if not significantly more).

Michael Jordan always gets a lot of praise for some of his key last second shots, but the best thing Michael ever did for his team in the playoffs is have games where he would just go berserk and **** the opposing team. That's what LeBron has done, and can still do.

M.O.T.H. · 03-09-2011, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forenci

Wasn't the NBA basically revitalized on the notion of a few star studded teams constantly battling it out in the playoffs/finals?

I think it's obvious a few teams need to go, so that the smaller teams can have more access to talent via the draft and free agency, but I do believe come playoff time the battle of the "big three" type teams will create a ton of buzz and fun once they fill out the rest of their rosters in the next couple years.

Fun for who? Casual fans? In the long run, having all the talent tied up into just a few teams seems like a horrible proposition...unless you're a fan of one of those teams.

Knowing that your team has no chance to win the championship in any given year, could be quite demoralizing.

The playoffs are plenty exciting without a few super teams dominating the lot.

bigbluedefense · 03-09-2011, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forenci

LeBron has also dominated numerous playoff serious too, which is just as important as hitting last second shots (if not significantly more).

Michael Jordan always gets a lot of praise for some of his key last second shots, but the best thing Michael ever did for his team in the playoffs is have games where he would just go berserk and **** the opposing team. That's what LeBron has done, and can still do.

Yeah I agree. Really, the only flaw in LeBron's game is his jump shot. He won't ever be a good clutch player (hitting the last shot/kill shot) until he works on his jump shot.

90% of the time, those game winning shots are jump shots.

D-Unit · 03-09-2011, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

Yeah I agree. Really, the only flaw in LeBron's game is his jump shot. He won't ever be a good clutch player (hitting the last shot/kill shot) until he works on his jump shot.

90% of the time, those game winning shots are jump shots.

The ability is there. He's done it in the past. The issue is trust in it, and only doing it after he's hot. There's not a natural trust yet that he can do it at a high percentage out of the blue.

SickwithIt1010 · 03-09-2011, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forenci

Uhhh, I'd probably say LeBron is better at all of those things. But you're pretty pretty vague at what all those things mean, so..

I'm also pretty confident (reasonable) Lakers fans would say LeBron is a better player than Kobe.

The one thing Kobe is better at is last second shots, but most games aren't decided on last second shots anyways.

I dont think Lebron has the mentality to be the best right now. I think he has all the tools, some of the best gifts a basketball player could ever have...but hes a mental midget.

Its the same in baseball for me. You could have the best fastball in the world, you can have the best stuff in the world, but if you dont have that killer mentality than you arent going to make it.

and just from seeing interviews/watching him play, he doesnt have it.

Complex · 03-09-2011, 03:52 PM

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/view...?f=64&t=943463

LeBron is the best player followed by Dwight Howard. Lebron has also been clutch in the playoffs.

iowatreat54 · 03-09-2011, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Goosemahn

What "realistic" big three scenarios would you like to see in upcoming years?

My choices:

Bulls
PG Derrick Rose
PF Carlos Boozer
C Dwight Howard

Not so much a big three as a big two, but Rose and Howard together would be completely mesmerizing. Both are young too, they'd be able to stick together at an elite level for 8+ years, at least. I've always thought Boozer was a bit overrated, but with these two guys on his team he could play well. If they could somehow land someone like Andre Iguodala (who I like more than Deng), that would be one baaaaaadass team.

Maybe something like this (with cash and picks involved too):
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMa...radeId=4ln7vd9

What other scenarios would you guys have?

Can't see the trade, so I don't know if it includes Noah. But Noah just got signed to a 5 year $60M extension. I doubt we go after Dwight Howard.

Most likely Chicago would go after a SG/SF in the next couple years with Rose, Boozer, and Noah all locked up.

BeerBaron · 03-09-2011, 04:04 PM

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&c...2&ved=0CCIQkAE

Quote:

In sports, clutch refers to a competent and/or superior play during high pressure situations. Most often it is a successful action taken under high pressure during a game, usually at the end, that may result in a significant change on the game's result.

I hate this "Lebron has done well in a couple playoffs so he's clutch" talk.

Simply playing well overall in the playoffs is not clutch to me. By that logic, the early 90s Bills were clutch since they dominated the AFC playoffs....but they are not actually clutch seeing as how they acquired 0 Superbowl wins.

Clutch is more of a moment thing, not a game thing. So Lebron played well in a few playoff games.....did his team with the series? Did his team go onto and win the championship?

No. Therefore, not clutch. And ask yourself, truly. Game 7 for the NBA finals, down by 3......you can plug in any current player to take that shot for you. Would you really pick Lebron? Because nobody should actually want to pick Lebron...he doesn't have it all together mentally to trust with that. The statistics can be damned because I'll still give that shot to Kobe.

SeanTaylorRIP · 03-09-2011, 04:18 PM

Haha this makes up for Blake's dunk contest showing:

yourfavestoner · 03-09-2011, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeerBaron

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&c...2&ved=0CCIQkAE

I hate this "Lebron has done well in a couple playoffs so he's clutch" talk.

Simply playing well overall in the playoffs is not clutch to me. By that logic, the early 90s Bills were clutch since they dominated the AFC playoffs....but they are not actually clutch seeing as how they acquired 0 Superbowl wins.

Clutch is more of a moment thing, not a game thing. So Lebron played well in a few playoff games.....did his team with the series? Did his team go onto and win the championship?

No. Therefore, not clutch. And ask yourself, truly. Game 7 for the NBA finals, down by 3......you can plug in any current player to take that shot for you. Would you really pick Lebron? Because nobody should actually want to pick Lebron...he doesn't have it all together mentally to trust with that. The statistics can be damned because I'll still give that shot to Kobe.

You obviously don't read 82games or RealGM. Clearly, clutch is defined by the last five minutes of any game with neither team ahead by more than 5.

sweetness34 · 03-09-2011, 04:19 PM

Did Forenci just call LeBron an unselfish superstar? That made me lulz.

I just don't know if LeBron gets 'it.' It's hard to quantify what 'it' is, but I really question that in his game. He is so immensely talented it's ridiculous and he truly has no ceiling, buy his mental game leaves a lot to be desired. Basketball is more than just box scores. I've beaten the **** out of this horse, but in my opinion he doesn't have the intagibles to maximize his potential.

There's always been something a little off about him, which is why I have doubts about his game and his ability to will his teams to victory.

With that said I still believe he's going to win a title or two just based off pure talent. I'd take him on my team anyway though I loathe him because he's a very good player who makes your team so much better.

BeerBaron · 03-09-2011, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yourfavestoner

You obviously don't read 82games or RealGM. Clearly, clutch is defined by the last five minutes of any game with neither team ahead by more than 5.

That's just asinine.

Complex · 03-09-2011, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeerBaron

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&c...2&ved=0CCIQkAE

I hate this "Lebron has done well in a couple playoffs so he's clutch" talk.

Simply playing well overall in the playoffs is not clutch to me. By that logic, the early 90s Bills were clutch since they dominated the AFC playoffs....but they are not actually clutch seeing as how they acquired 0 Superbowl wins.

Clutch is more of a moment thing, not a game thing. So Lebron played well in a few playoff games.....did his team with the series? Did his team go onto and win the championship?

No. Therefore, not clutch. And ask yourself, truly. Game 7 for the NBA finals, down by 3......you can plug in any current player to take that shot for you. Would you really pick Lebron? Because nobody should actually want to pick Lebron...he doesn't have it all together mentally to trust with that. The statistics can be damned because I'll still give that shot to Kobe.

So was John Elways drive clutch?
going 6-24 in the finals game 7 clutch?

SickwithIt1010 · 03-09-2011, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Complex

So was John Elways drive clutch?
going 6-24 in the finals game 7 clutch?

He did what he had to do at the end of the game to win, he played good defense down the stretch, and had 15 boards. Yeah he shot 6-24 but get got to the line and he got them points.

Youre just looking for **** to say, and its ridiculous.

yourfavestoner · 03-09-2011, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeerBaron

That's just asinine.

I will say, though, that Lebron's performance against Detroit in the 2006 ECF was one of the most dominating, clutch, ridiculous performances that I've ever seen in any sport in my life. 29 of the teams last 30 points (and the last 25 consecutive points) and the game winning layup in double OT.

BeerBaron · 03-09-2011, 04:42 PM

I'll take playing ****** but winning a championship over an epic performance but not winning any day. If that game was super close and the Lakers needed a clutch shot to win, they still would have gone to Kobe, as any sensible human being should.

BeerBaron · 03-09-2011, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yourfavestoner

I will say, though, that Lebron's performance against Detroit in the 2006 ECF was one of the most dominating, clutch, ridiculous performances that I've ever seen in any sport in my life. 29 of the teams last 30 points (and the last 25 consecutive points) and the game winning layup in double OT.

But do you consider him clutch because of it? If you had to make a list of adjectives to describe him, would "clutch" be on there? Cause I wouldn't put it on there.

SickwithIt1010 · 03-09-2011, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeerBaron

I'll take playing ****** but winning a championship over an epic performance but not winning any day. If that game was super close and the Lakers needed a clutch shot to win, they still would have gone to Kobe, as any sensible human being should.

This, this, and this.