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Old 03-30-2011, 02:02 PM    (permalink
jnew76
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Because there is a lot more to being a successful NFL quarterback than physical tools.

If talent is all that mattered both Jeff George and JaMarcus Russell would be in the Hall of Fame.
The exact point I am trying to make to FUNBUNCHER. He is having a little trouble coming around though.
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Old 03-30-2011, 02:09 PM    (permalink
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It makes it an opinion, shared with others in the scouting community.
Funny, Gil Brandt's comments are completely contradictory:


"I’ve talked to a lot of players and coaches who were around Newton at Auburn, people whose opinions I trust, and I’ve come to this conclusion: Newton is the real deal."

"The biggest concerns being voiced by personnel types have been about questions surrounding his work ethic and character. From my own personal interaction with Newton, I can vouch for his character. But I’ll defer to those who were closer to him."

"Folks at Auburn will tell you that when Newton arrived on campus in the winter of 2010, he did not do what many young student-athletes do at Auburn – that is, he did not take off on weekends to hang out in Atlanta or Birmingham. Newton stayed on campus to work out on weekends. After a while, his teammates gravitated toward him and started rallying around him. “If the quarterback was sticking around to work, why shouldn’t we?” This was a turning point, a sign that Newton had the work habits and the best interest of his team at heart. Talent alone didn’t win Auburn the national championship. Newton’s leadership off the field played a key role."

"Falcons scout Matt Berry was the group leader who led around Newton’s group at the combine last month. He said Newton never complained and was never late for a meeting."
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Old 03-30-2011, 02:12 PM    (permalink
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It seems like we're going around and around, but only time will tell who is right.

In my opinion, there is at best a 25% chance that Newton fulfills his vast potential.
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Old 03-30-2011, 02:21 PM    (permalink
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In my opinion, there is at best a 25% chance that Newton fulfills his vast potential.
What exactly is your opinion being based on; because I can 98% assume that you have never spoken to Newton or anyone who in any way was close to him. I'm not exactly sure how you're making a detailed "personality" analysis on someone you realistically know nothing about.
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Old 03-30-2011, 02:25 PM    (permalink
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What exactly is your opinion being based on; because I can 98% assume that you have never spoken to Newton or anyone who in any way was close to him. I'm not exactly sure how you're making a detailed "personality" analysis on someone you realistically know nothing about.
Agh, so that's going to be the new argument... :o)

All I can say is actions speak louder than words.

People always ask "How Does Ryan Leaf Happen?" or "How Does JaMarcus Russell Happen?". Well, it's because people ignore warning signs. In the case of Cam Newton, there are warning signs, a bell, red flashing lights, etc. As I said, only time will tell but I am confident Newton is going to disappoint. That's especially true if someone takes him in the Top 5 overall.
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Old 03-30-2011, 02:26 PM    (permalink
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I don't understand why anyone would think Nolan has anything personal against Cam Newton.
IDk maybe because he said stuff like
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does not command respect from teammates and will always struggle to win a locker room
and
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has a fake smile
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Old 03-30-2011, 02:28 PM    (permalink
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How do you objectively quantify a 'fake smile'???

'Has a selfish, me-first makeup??' Huh?? Put that in a football context, how has Cam's 'selfishness' been to such an extreme that it negatively impacted his football team??

'Does not command respect from teammates and will always struggle to win a locker room'??
Sorry but how can a serious prospect analyst make this statement?? It's patently false based on the evidence of last season. You know, the one where Newton led Auburn to an undefeated season in the SEC and NC with a supporting cast of irregulars.

'Lacks accountability, focusand trustworthiness -- is not punctual, seeks shortcuts and sets a bad example. Immature and has had issues with authority. Not dependable.'
You think a 'scout' confirmed this last bit of drivel for Nawrocki??
I'll quit while I'm ahead.

The problem with this evaluation is it reads as if Nawrocki wrote it immediately after Newton left UF, and completely skips over the next two years of his academic and football career.

Some people refuse to believe in the possibility that Cam has MATURED since leaving the Gators program.
So do you think Nolan is making all of this stuff up and that he hasn't talked to scouts and league personnel?
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Old 03-30-2011, 02:35 PM    (permalink
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So do you think Nolan is making all of this stuff up and that he hasn't talked to scouts and league personnel?
Sure, why not? These guys are journalists...you dont get big by playing it safe. ALL of these guys have their few guys each year that they will absolutely homer up either positively or negatively in effort to have a bold, different opinion. Mayock does it every year, and its largely why he got so popular.

Scouting is also widely opinionated. Its why it takes 10+ different opinions to pick a guy, from scouts to coaches to the higher up. It wouldn't be hard to find one scout who hates Newton, and another who thinks he's amazing.
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Old 03-30-2011, 02:39 PM    (permalink
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Because I feel not enough people read the link that Brown Leader posted...

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In a severely harsh take on the character of Cam Newton, Pro Football Weekly essentially savaged the Auburn quarterback.

Nolan Nawrocki made allegations about several negative personality traits for the Heisman Trophy winner in the article, writing that Newton is "Very disingenuous, has a fake smile, comes off as very scripted and has a selfish, me-first makeup. Always knows where the cameras are and plays to them. Has an enormous ego with a sense of entitlement that continually invites trouble and makes him believe he is above the law, does not command respect from teammates and will always struggle to win a locker room. Lacks accountability, focus and trustworthiness, is not punctual, seeks shortcuts and sets a bad example. Immature and has had issues with authority. Not dependable.”

National Football Post contacted George Whitfield, Newton's quarterbacks coach, and conducted the following interview:

What's your reaction to the characterization of Cam Newton?

Whitfield: "The first thing I would say is: How would he form that impression? It's one thing to talk about his tangible attributes and another thing altogether to write what he wrote. To me, there's got to be a line between speculation and recklnessness. I read it. There is criticism and skepticism as to how genuine he is when he smiles. Wow, it’s gone past anything with traction. This is an individual who has taken the opportunity to slam Cam up against the wall in a way so that people remember this piece. Now, you’re beyond having a pragmatic approach. There has to be an agenda for this article.

Would you take a chance on Cam Newton?

"Here's a 21-year old guy who has worked his way to get to this point and his smile is being called into question about how genuine he is is. And they're calling him a selfish guy. None of that is based on anything that's factual. If you compile what was said about Cam last couple of years of his life, I don’t know how you can get those results. Mr. Nawrocki probably has an Alabama cap on his head when he's writing that stuff. If it's a responsible, professional writer sober in his own office desk, I don't see how he comes up with this. I just wonder how pragmatic he is."

Does Cam Newton read any of the coverage about himself or the draft in general?

Whitfield: "He doesn’t read any of it. I broke down and read it. We made a deal not to read anything, especially before the combine. He doesn't care. If we called him right now and read that article to him, he would laugh about it and move on and tell me how today's visit with the Bills went. Criticism isn't new to him. He has skin like a crocodile."
What kind of person is Cam Newton?

Whitfield: "As a person, he’s the kind of guy you want in any situation. I know he’s gone through some real growth from the time he was a freshman in college, same as I did. He couldn’t be more genuine and infectious with people. People see that. When we trained at UC San Diego, he got to know all these student workers on campus and knew them all by name and would ask them how they did on exams. He spent hours at a childrens hospital with no media around and got to know three young boys with chronic illnesses. He spent a lot of time with a nine-year-old boy with chronic arthritis. Nobody saw that. He didn't want anybody to see that. He went to an inner city school to talk to kids. People talk about Team Newton and say he has a posse. He does have a posse. It's his 12-year-old younger brother and his older brother and his mom and dad. It's called a family. His personality is infectious.

"He went through so much scrutiny this year with the sheer pressure of dealing with that NCAA investigation and came out and physically and mentally performed in all those situations and Southern road game environments. He never broke down or made excuses. He has that ability to compartmentalize and separate everything to what he's going through and he’ll beat it. He has never had any issues with drugs or alcohol and he never missed classes at Auburn. A team drafting in the top five sent two private investigators to Auburn and they spent a week there They found out he never cut class. They found out he conducted himself very respectfully. They weren't scouts, they were investigators. They know how to ask questions. They found nothing derogatory. He comes from a God-fearing family. He's a good kid."

Whitfield has been working with Newton usually six days per week since January 24.

What kind of quarterback prospect is Cam Newton?

Whitfield: "As a quarterback, he’s capable of everything. There are times you get a quarterback and you get a chance to work with him and you learn about him and learn some things he does well and some things he can’t do. Some kids will never have power, accuracy and mobility, or some kids always have power and won’t be that agile. With Cam, it’s like some kind of government experiment. There's nothing he can’t do. He throws with power, throws with touch, the footwork of dropping back. He has the agility of an Allen Iverson in the open field, insane accuracy and an incredible work ethic. He's very tough. He takes everything with a lot of pride. Everything is like a personal competition with himself. If he missed a step in the ladder drill, he would take himself back and do it again. He always has that pilot light on."

Whitfield said that Newton has upcoming workouts with the Minnesota Vikings and the Cincinnati Bengals. He expects the Arizona Cardinals to meet with him soon.

How do you expect his game to translate into the NFL? There have been a lot of questions about the offense he played in at Auburn.

Whitfield: "Cam didn’t necessarily play in that Auburn offense in high school, but he excelled in it. To do that, you have to have the talent and agility and footwork. He can be moved from system to system and fit in anywhere like how Ben Roethlisberger can play in the Steelers' offense and he can do what the Raiders do. Some guys can move from playbook to playbook. Cam is one of those guys with those physical attributes."

How about the mental aspect of the game? How sharp is this guy?

Whitfield: "In terms of his football acumen, the thing I'm most impressed about by spending time with him is how hungry he is to talk football and visualize and strategize about the game. When he first came to San Diego, we talked about the national championship game and he broke down the Oregon defense and what he visiualized on a napkin. He was indicating signs of coverages and he filled up five napkins. I knew right then we were going to be in a downhill sprint. This is someone who's excited to share his insights about the game.

"He's very candid about everything, about his reads. We got into a classroom seting and I was even more impressed. During the combine meetings, he expected them to ask him about coverages and football. The teams didn't ask about that. They wanted to know about the NCAA stuff and his dad. They wanted to know him as a person first. From these visits, we're getting a lot of great feedback about the football acumen."
How successful do you expect him to be in the NFL?

Whitfield: "To predict what he'll be going forward with these traits and intangible gifts, I think he's going to be very successful. He's a winner. He's got toughness, physical and mental toughness. He's got a lot of pride. This guy would play for free. I'm sure his agent just cringed. He loves diving head-first into linebackers. He can make four or five guys miss. Rain or shine, he's going to be there and you can count on him. You can trust him. Guys are going to love running out of the tunnel with him. He's going to hit the ground running. I think he's going to do great."

Trevor Garrison is the nine-year-old with juvenile arthritis that got to know Newton in the hospital this winter.

Diagnosed with the disease five years ago, Garrison has to get several rounds of injections to treat the ailment.

"Trevor didn't know who Cam was before we met him," David Garrison, Garrison's father, told NFP. "I showed him some clips of Cam on the computer and he got pretty excited. It was neat. Cam is a very chill guy, very interested in talking to Trevor and asking him questions. He was very humble. He made me a fan. Prior to that, all I had heard was the negative stuff. I became a Cam Newton fan for life.

"Trevor's doing pretty good right now, and meeting Cam meant a lot to him. Hopefully, the medicines will do their job. He made a huge impression on me. It was awesome. Now, I will always be a Cam Newton fan. I will always follow his career. The humbleness from him was totally genuine. It was special meeting him. We'll never forget it."
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Old 03-30-2011, 03:00 PM    (permalink
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Sure, why not? These guys are journalists...you dont get big by playing it safe. ALL of these guys have their few guys each year that they will absolutely homer up either positively or negatively in effort to have a bold, different opinion. Mayock does it every year, and its largely why he got so popular.

Scouting is also widely opinionated. Its why it takes 10+ different opinions to pick a guy, from scouts to coaches to the higher up. It wouldn't be hard to find one scout who hates Newton, and another who thinks he's amazing.
That's not what I'm talking about, I'm asking if you guys think that he is fabricating information and passing it off as fact ala Hunter S. Thompson.
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Old 03-30-2011, 03:50 PM    (permalink
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Just found this... Newton was supposed to be interviewed for the HBO Real Sports show that is going to be aired tonight... But Newton declined when HBO said they would not pay him for the interview... Sounds all to familiar... Cam and his team want to get paid for everything Cam does... Too bad... Would have been a good chance to get his side of the story out.

http://atlanta.sbnation.com/georgia-...uburn-football
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Old 03-30-2011, 04:29 PM    (permalink
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Just found this... Newton was supposed to be interviewed for the HBO Real Sports show that is going to be aired tonight... But Newton declined when HBO said they would not pay him for the interview... Sounds all to familiar... Cam and his team want to get paid for everything Cam does... Too bad... Would have been a good chance to get his side of the story out.

http://atlanta.sbnation.com/georgia-...uburn-football
My question is... why isn't HBO paying him???

You'd figure the ratings for the show would more than make up for paying him.
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Old 03-30-2011, 05:01 PM    (permalink
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Just found this... Newton was supposed to be interviewed for the HBO Real Sports show that is going to be aired tonight... But Newton declined when HBO said they would not pay him for the interview... Sounds all to familiar... Cam and his team want to get paid for everything Cam does... Too bad... Would have been a good chance to get his side of the story out.

http://atlanta.sbnation.com/georgia-...uburn-football
Maybe Cam refused the interview because the Real Sports episode is covering several previous Auburn athletes who are going on record as stating they were given monetary benefits by several SEC schools, including Auburn, to play football.

You really are a pollyanna if you think ANY NFL player appears anywhere without receiving compensation, even on the radio.

Just more in-house SEC BS.

Notice where the link originated,from an Atlanta newspage (Dawgs hating, anyone??)

Seriously, why would Cam associate himself with something that happened before he ever attended Auburn, or focus even more negative attention on one of the low points in his college career??

'Hey Cam, this is HBO. Why don't you agree to come on camera with us and be interviewed for an hour like you're on trial?'

Cam is being smart, IMO.
First rule of being a future, unproven pro athlete; AVOID CONTROVERSY.

The link said that money was an issue, allegedly, but not the only one, in explaining why Newton chose to decline.

Duh.
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Old 03-30-2011, 05:24 PM    (permalink
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I'd hate to see what Steve Smith and Shockey do to him if he goes to Car.
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Old 03-30-2011, 05:29 PM    (permalink
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I don't understand why anyone would think Nolan has anything personal against Cam Newton.
It doesn't have to be genuinely personal. It was unarguably over the top, and the whole write-up screamed of someone trying to get attention. Nolan is pretty legit, and maybe he's written some good, unbiased reports in his time... But to someone that has been following the draft religiously for 18 years, that article screams "HACK". The guy lost all credibility with that article. It's along the lines of something Florio would put up on PFT.
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Old 03-30-2011, 05:44 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post

Cam is being smart, IMO.
First rule of being a future, unproven pro athlete; AVOID CONTROVERSY.
thanks for my new sig quote... that is quite possibly the funniest thing I have ever read.
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Old 03-30-2011, 05:54 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Halsey View Post
It's hard not to be concerned about Newton's flaws, but man is he talented. Maybe he'll be a bust in the NFL or maybe he'll be a player who can perform on the field despite off field drama, kind of like Roethlisberger. The comments in the article seem a little overboard. It says "continually invites trouble", but I don't know of any trouble he's gotten into recently. He got in legal trouble at UF, but I don't know of any legal problems since. It's not really known how much fault he has in the pay-for-play drama.
He maybe didn't get in any "legal troubles" at Auburn because A) they covered is @ss, B) he wasn't there long.

As for him being talented: sure he is. But there have been a lot of other great talented players who were drafted sky high, and flopped. At that level, a lot of times it's what's between the ears, and in the heart, that makes a difference.
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Old 03-30-2011, 06:01 PM    (permalink
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Despite never meeting Newton, Nawrocki is sticking by his amatuer psychoanalysis

Quote:
Nawrocki has never met Newton, stands by scouting report

Pro Football Weekly’s brutal scouting report on Auburn quarterback Cam Newton has been the hottest draft-related topic of the week. PFW draft analyst Nolan Nawrocki held a conference call on Wednesday, and PFT asked Nawrocki whether he’d spent any time with the 2010 Heisman winner before publishing the attack.

Nawrocki admitted he’s spent no time with Newton.

(That’s even less than top Newton supporter George Whitfield would’ve guessed.)

But Nawrocki “stands by” his evaluation.

“I feel very comfortable (with the scouting report),” Nawrocki said. “I stand by what was written. … I feel very strongly about what was written and stand by it fully.”

A comparison to Jimmy Clausen was made during the call. Nawrocki indicated that Clausen and Newton are similar in that they’re both “egotistical and disingenuous … scripted players with a sense of entitlement.”

Nawrocki says he’s heard the terms “fraud”, “narcissist”, and “con artist” mentioned when discussing Newton with scouts.

Instead of one-on-one time, Nawrocki attributed his scathing assessment of Newton’s character to “an enormous amount of research” in dealing with people in the league.

Said Nawrocki at one point on the call, “Three of the five decision makers I’ve spoken to in the last 24 hours expressed that Newton was disillusioned about his past.

“(And) anybody that does their homework and really digs hard will come away with a lot of the same conclusions.”

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...outing-report/
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Old 03-30-2011, 06:11 PM    (permalink
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Hey Scott...

So Jimmy Clausen is a franchise QB and every team that passed on him is an idiot. And you guarantee the team that picks Newton in the top 5 will regret it?

:P
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Old 03-30-2011, 06:33 PM    (permalink
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IMO Nawrocki is attempting to make a name for himself.
In a sense I guess he has, since 36 hours ago I had no idea who this guy was.

Well done, sir.
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Old 03-30-2011, 06:51 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Babylon View Post
To me they have the same throwing motion, not bringing their weight forward. Also i think their accuracy is similar, both guys are sort of wildly accurate, meaning they are somewhere near the target but not hitting a lof guys right on the facemask.
I don't think you will find too many scouts who were critical of Russell's natural abilities, Russell became a flop because he simply wouldn't work at his trade, unfortunately, something that is hard to judge in a young kid.
You give 60 million dollars to a lot of young players and some are simply going to live the life of luxury and won't care about being the best that they can be. Leinert is another perfect example, loads of natural talent but he would rather party than get ready for football, and you are going to flop with that attitude.
I just don't see it in Newton, if he flops it will be because he is too 'me' oriented like Terrell Owens, but it didn't stop Terrell from being a great player, just not the greatest team player.
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Old 03-30-2011, 06:55 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Scott Wright View Post
I don't understand why anyone would think Nolan has anything personal against Cam Newton.
His description of Newton suggests to me that there is something in Newton's character that Nolan cannot stomach and the attack seems personal.
Of course, I don't pretend to know that his attack is personal, but I'm not used to seeing this kind of stuff thrown at a prospect. It is very strange to me.
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Old 03-30-2011, 07:03 PM    (permalink
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Nawrocki has never met Newton, stands by scouting report

Pro Football Weekly’s brutal scouting report on Auburn quarterback Cam Newton has been the hottest draft-related topic of the week. PFW draft analyst Nolan Nawrocki held a conference call on Wednesday, and PFT asked Nawrocki whether he’d spent any time with the 2010 Heisman winner before publishing the attack.

Nawrocki admitted he’s spent no time with Newton.

(That’s even less than top Newton supporter George Whitfield would’ve guessed.)

But Nawrocki “stands by” his evaluation.

“I feel very comfortable (with the scouting report),” Nawrocki said. “I stand by what was written. … I feel very strongly about what was written and stand by it fully.”

A comparison to Jimmy Clausen was made during the call. Nawrocki indicated that Clausen and Newton are similar in that they’re both “egotistical and disingenuous … scripted players with a sense of entitlement.”

Nawrocki says he’s heard the terms “fraud”, “narcissist”, and “con artist” mentioned when discussing Newton with scouts.

Instead of one-on-one time, Nawrocki attributed his scathing assessment of Newton’s character to “an enormous amount of research” in dealing with people in the league.

Said Nawrocki at one point on the call, “Three of the five decision makers I’ve spoken to in the last 24 hours expressed that Newton was disillusioned about his past.

“(And) anybody that does their homework and really digs hard will come away with a lot of the same conclusions.”


Then if he is telling the truth, we can all expect Newton to go in round 2 or even round 3, because if his so called sources are reliable, then no team will touch Newton early in the draft.
I simply don't believe the man and now that he has been put on the spot, he's looking for a way out.
Newton will likely be gone by the 5th pick in the draft which will completely discredit Nolan and I doubt he keeps his job.
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Old 03-30-2011, 07:13 PM    (permalink
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Well, there you go... Nawrocki taking a page straight out of Florio's book of tricks. Say something completely baseless to get attention and run with the attention. What a hack.
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Old 03-30-2011, 07:39 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by nepg View Post
Well, there you go... Nawrocki taking a page straight out of Florio's book of tricks. Say something completely baseless to get attention and run with the attention. What a hack.
I don't know if he is a hack, he probably is pretty good most of the time, but it appears to me that he over stepped his bounds and when questioned on it, he came up with a lame excuse instead of just saying he stands by everything he said, and it now makes him look bad.
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