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Old 03-31-2011, 11:53 AM    (permalink
metafour
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Originally Posted by Scott Wright View Post
However, to compare Clausen's situation to that of Newton is apples and oranges.
You're right. Clausen is the definition of a douchebag and his overinflated ego that was built since he was a sophomore in high school affects his ability to play the quarterback position; an issue that is not present with Newton and will be shown on draft day.
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Old 03-31-2011, 11:54 AM    (permalink
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I still believe a lot of the talk about him was a case of perception becoming reality.
This is pure gold.
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Old 03-31-2011, 12:14 PM    (permalink
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Nawrocki's actual scouting report on Cam was very extensive and, shocker(!!), balanced for the most part.

PFW excerpted the most controversial comments from Nawrocki to gin up more predraft drama, and it worked.

I still think he went way beyond where a serious NFL scout should go by attempting to interpret or diagnose the psyche of a prospect, but much of what he wrote up falls in line with what many posters on SWDC have said pro and con about Newton.

BTW, Clausen is struggling not because of his character. He's having a difficult time because playing QB in the NFL is hard.
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Old 03-31-2011, 01:18 PM    (permalink
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BTW, Clausen is struggling not because of his character. He's having a difficult time because playing QB in the NFL is hard.
And because his receivers and passing offense are horse****.
Where's Dwayne Jarrett anyway?
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Old 03-31-2011, 02:18 PM    (permalink
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Believe me, I don't talk about issues like those with Clausen, Newton and Mallett lightly. I research, talk with people and do my due dilligence. The bottom line is a lot of the Clausen stuff was overblown. The bottom line is Clausen was never arrested, never failed drug tests and I still believe a lot of the talk about him was a case of perception becoming reality. Also, the details you laid out in the incident you referred to are flat-out false.

Time will tell on Clausen in the NFL and if I'm wrong I will own up to it. I have hits and misses just like everyone else, but I'm not nearly ready to give up on Clausen yet. However, to compare Clausen's situation to that of Newton is apples and oranges.
What about my story was false? It obviously isn't the fabricated version everybody speaks of, but aren't some things about the fabricated verison a little fishy?

Let's see, news publications didn't start talk about it until November 24th, 2009, which was on a Wednesday. This reportedly happened on Saturday, November 20th, 2009, after their game against UConn. You think a star Quarterback at one of the most prestigious schools in America is going to get sucker-punched at one of the most popular restaurants in town, and nobody is going to hear about it until four days later?

The other thing to look at is that a spokesperson for the South Bend police confirmed that no police report was filed over that weekend involving Clausen. So, now you're going to attempt to tell me that you're not going to call the police when a guy sucker-punches you at the bar?

I started hearing about Clausen getting punched in the face on that Monday. I'm sorry that I'm not going to ignore the obvious facts that make the fabricated story just a complete joke.

I'm sticking to my story, and that the fabricated story has huge flaws that make it unbelievable.
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Old 03-31-2011, 03:30 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
Nawrocki's actual scouting report on Cam was very extensive and, shocker(!!), balanced for the most part.

PFW excerpted the most controversial comments from Nawrocki to gin up more predraft drama, and it worked.

I still think he went way beyond where a serious NFL scout should go by attempting to interpret or diagnose the psyche of a prospect, but much of what he wrote up falls in line with what many posters on SWDC have said pro and con about Newton.

BTW, Clausen is struggling not because of his character. He's having a difficult time because playing QB in the NFL is hard.
This is a very good, well thought out post. I believe most posters here acknowledge the incredible talent Newton has. It is a question of how much weight the off the field issues have with each evaluator. For me, they have a greater impact on my final evaluation than some other posters.
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Old 03-31-2011, 03:42 PM    (permalink
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I guess this is big news because someone had the balls to call Cam Newton what we already know. Instead of quoting other people and saying scouts are calling Newton a lying scumbag that's narcissistic, he's actually putting his name on these remarks. Otherwise, this already known. You watch an interview with Cam Newton and he's one of the biggest phonies I have ever seen on TV... maybe the biggest fraud since Chris Berman or any given politician.

I can see why the media is all over it, but for it to get such reactions on here is surprising. It's not like anyone of us on here haven't said worse about Cam Newton. I think the controversial part of the review is accurate to a "T". What he had to say about Ryan Mallet? Over the line. Calling him out for having a gray *****? Who does that? And why would you have to proceed with caution because a prospect has a gray wiener? Makes no sense.
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Old 03-31-2011, 03:43 PM    (permalink
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actually, it *won't* be shown on draft day. what will be shown on draft day is whether there's a *perception* that it will affect him.

but it's funny that you're ready to blow off clausen for being a dick (and suggest that it's directly related to his ability to play qb), but feel that any allusion whatsoever to cam newton's character is 'ridiculous'.

hypocrisy is always fun.
njx slays another victim!
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Old 03-31-2011, 03:46 PM    (permalink
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This is getting uglier and uglier.

Warren Moon says the criticism is based off racism.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft2...ory?id=6277093
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Old 03-31-2011, 03:53 PM    (permalink
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This is getting uglier and uglier.

Warren Moon says the criticism is based off racism.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft2...ory?id=6277093
Pure poppycock. Lots of QBs are roundly criticized for potentially being poorly prepared for the NFL by their college systems (just look at Tebow last year) and many QBs are criticized heartily for character concerns (just look at Clausen last year). Since Tebow and Clausen are both white guys, this is just a symptom of "NFL unfriendly offense" meets "legitimate character concerns."

Giving Newton a pass because simply because he's black would be more racist than the alternative.
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Old 03-31-2011, 03:55 PM    (permalink
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Pure poppycock. Lots of QBs are roundly criticized for potentially being poorly prepared for the NFL by their college systems (just look at Tebow last year) and many QBs are criticized heartily for character concerns (just look at Clausen last year). Since Tebow and Clausen are both white guys, this is just a symptom of "NFL unfriendly offense" meets "legitimate character concerns."

Giving Newton a pass because simply because he's black would be more racist than the alternative.
Haha. Did you just say poppycock? lmao.

I agree. I don't get why the race card had to be brought up.
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Old 03-31-2011, 03:57 PM    (permalink
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This is getting uglier and uglier.

Warren Moon says the criticism is based off racism.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft2...ory?id=6277093
Here's an article with more stuff.

I just lost a ton of respect for Moon.

Quote:
“The thing that makes me laugh is the question of can [Newton] come out of the spread offense? Can he run a pro offense? Colt McCoy came out of the spread offense and very few people raised that issue about him. So did Sam Bradford. Same thing. Very few questions asking if Bradford could run a pro offense. Some of these questions about Cam are more about his intellect. It’s blatant racism, some of it.”
You mean, that respect part for McCoy where he dropped into the 3rd round despite being the one of the winningest and most accurate QBs ever, Warren?

He neglects to mention Clausen getting ripped for character issues. He neglects to mention Ryan Mallett getting ripped for a ton of undisclosed character issues this year. Or Tebow for being a system QB.

The only racist that I've seen out in public making statements wrt Cam has been you, Mr. Moon.
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Old 03-31-2011, 04:01 PM    (permalink
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I think Pro Football Talk had the best response to Moon:

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But the perception of phoniness knows no racial boundaries. Last year, Tebow became one of the most polarizing figures in all of sports, with plenty of people thinking that Tebow’s decision to wrap himself in religious and goodness is more calculated and forced than natural and genuine. And who can forget the relentless criticism of Jimmy Clausen, who was perceived as a bad teammate with a sense of entitlement — and who slid to the middle of round two in part because of it?

Newton enters the NFL amid many questions and concerns. He allegedly stole a laptop while playing at Florida. He has been caught up in a pay-to-play scandal that, with tonight’s HBO report regarding other far less accomplished players at Auburn getting paid, will likely inch back toward the front burner. Newton has dubbed himself “an entertainer and an icon.” Moon himself has admitted that Newton at times puts “the cart before the horse” when talking about himself.

Also, Newton struggled at the Scouting Combine, and his Pro Day workout was a step below the T-shirt-and-shorts grand slam that quarterback Pro Days so often become. While Newton won the Heisman and a national title, he didn’t have the kind of clearly dominant performance on a huge stage that propelled other quarterbacks to the top of the draft.

All that said, Newton surely will be drafted earlier than Tebow or Clausen were picked, and well before white quarterbacks like Jake Locker and Ryan Mallet, who has absorbed plenty of criticism this year, too, based on unsubstantiated rumors of drug use. Indeed, Newton still could be the first quarterback — and the first player — taken in the draft.

That said, are some of the people criticizing and/or rooting against Newton motivated by race? Undoubtedly. On balance, however, Newton finds himself in the unenviable position of being a high-profile player at a high-profile position that invites a high level of scrutiny in the months preceding the draft. Sure, Blaine Gabbert has received far less poking and prodding — but that’s because his college career was far more muted and unremarkable. Newton is living the reality of life under an electron microscope, the same device that has hovered over Tebow and Clausen and that will be used to study every big-name, well-known rookie quarterback, for as long as there are big-name, well-known rookie quarterbacks.
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Old 03-31-2011, 04:09 PM    (permalink
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Moon dealt with a lot of stereotyping coming out of highschool where most programs wanted to convert him to a WR so he probably has a soft spot for what he percieves as a double standard.

The problem with the Newton situation is he isnt the only one being criticised and most of it comes with the territory. Mallett is getting knocked for his off the field issues but Mallett isnt projected to be at the top of the draft.

Moon was recently talking up Newton to the Titans as being a good fit there, i know there is probably some history with the old Oilers organization but why not talk up Locker to the Titans, as both he and Moon played for the UW.I guess technically that's racism also.
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Old 03-31-2011, 04:11 PM    (permalink
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This is getting uglier and uglier.

Warren Moon says the criticism is based off racism.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft2...ory?id=6277093
Well, he is Newton's advisor so you'd expect Moon to defend him. Pulling out the race card is the laziest thing one could do. It's a shame Moon is stooping to this level. People are calling him untrustworthy since he cheated on tests, lied to police to cover up a larceny he committed, people coaching him up during interviews, which is plain as day for anyone to see... seems pretty fair. Does Moon really expect people to just act like none of his moronic antics didn't happen? It should be expected to face scrutiny, especially when a player invites it.

Pulling the race card anytime something negative is said or done to a black person? I thought we were all passed that.
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Old 03-31-2011, 04:51 PM    (permalink
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lol @ Warren Moon pulling that card. smh.
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Old 03-31-2011, 05:00 PM    (permalink
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Newton's attitude sounds a lot like Lebron James only Bron Bron didn't have baggage( i think).
Brons baggage was that whatever team has him, they also get to pamper his entourage to keep him happy. Not only that, but he believed he was the best, before he even proved he is capable and has the talent to be the best (loses that right since he's Wades sidekick now). Bron was also supposedly taking PED's of some sort, seemed to gain steam when he had a cist a few years ago and some pegged PEDs as the reason.

Maybe teams are viewing Newton as seeing himself as a Superstar, yet doesn't have the work ethic to back it up and just may end up with an overpaid underachiever and his cronies around until they can dump him and move on.

I'm no scout, but I see Newton as a Sanchez type success. If he's put in the right situation where he's not gonna be relied on to turn a franchise around, he'll succeed. (Used Sanchez as his stats are not all that great, yet the Jets are still successful due to their running game and defense to back him up)
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Old 03-31-2011, 05:00 PM    (permalink
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I guess this is big news because someone had the balls to call Cam Newton what we already know. Instead of quoting other people and saying scouts are calling Newton a lying scumbag that's narcissistic, he's actually putting his name on these remarks. Otherwise, this already known. You watch an interview with Cam Newton and he's one of the biggest phonies I have ever seen on TV... maybe the biggest fraud since Chris Berman or any given politician.
And what exactly is making him a phonie, again?
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Old 03-31-2011, 05:23 PM    (permalink
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Dumb thing for Moon to state publicly when it's known he's an advisor to Newton.
Granted, Moon has a right to be mad at the football gods because of the mountain he had to climb to get his shot in the NFL, but there is legitimacy to the majority of the critiques Cam is receiving, IMO.

If Newton had transferred from Florida while leaving behind a spotless record, then went on to greater accomplishments at Auburn, I think there'd be more consensus opinion that he should be the#1 overall pick.

Say what you will about Mike Vick, but at Va Tech I don't recall hearing about him even cussing in public.
If Vick had all the negative baggage that Cam did when he came out, there's no way Atlanta would have drafted him 1/1, (at least I don't think so!!lol)

If racial bias isn't clearly obvious, and instead it's just a gut feeling you have about someone, there's nothing gained for someone who's a respected NFL HOFer to throw gasoline onto the entire draft evaluation process.

For instance, I feel the reason so many casual outside observers were so quick to ASSUME Mallett was stoopid is because his speech pattern sounds 'too Black' for some people's tastes.

Can't prove that's what was going on and I would never say that in front of a camera, that's why some discussions are better left on message boards.

Moon really needs to take a step back and realize it's 2011 and it's not like Newton is at risk to falling down to the fifth round, or going undrafted.

I think most believe he's a near lock to go in the top 10, if not earlier.

Also, the more Moon vents, it's clear he doesn't really even follow the predraft scouting process.

McCoy, Bradford and Tebow, the #1 criticism against all of them was the offense they ran in college.

I feel bad for Moon in a way because he really was racially discriminated against by the entire NFL when he came out of U Dub in '78.

I don't think that's a scar that ever goes away, and can lead to racial hypersensitivity and paranoia.
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Old 03-31-2011, 05:27 PM    (permalink
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And what exactly is making him a phonie, again?
Lot of folks seem to think he's made up, fake smiles and is just giving a scripted speech. That's not too uncommon though. Mallet undoubtedly rehearsed how he'd answer questions about drug use, too.

A lot of people who've actually talked to Cam have come away unimpressed. There's some validity to it.
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Old 03-31-2011, 05:31 PM    (permalink
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How many times was Clausen arrested?

How many schools was Clausen kicked out of for cheating?

How many NCAA Pay-for-Play scandals was Clausen involved in?

If Clausen had Newton's track record I would've had him at least a round lower than I did.

Fair enough Clauses was never kicked out of school but neither was Newton he left Florida so I'm not sure what your point was with that. The only concern I would have with Newton would be that he allegedly cheated on two school papers. People try to use the pay for.play scheme as a character concern however they ignore the fact that there have been other prospects who did the same thing and are looked at as high character guys so that argument doesn't hold water with me. The guy who wrote this scouting report has become very unprofessional when discussing Newton. It baffles me that so many people feel they can accurately give a real opinion on somebody they never as much as had a cup of coffee with. You said you don't think Nolan went overboard with his scouting report, we have had some guys come along with some really extreme character issues and I've never seen a report as vile as that one was. I would really be interested in reading Nolan's report on Mallet. Did he attack Mallet with the same personal attacks and lack of professionalism? Obviously Newton's perceived character concerns aren't as bad as you pundits are making it out to be considering he isnt sliding down the draft like Clausen did or how Mallet is expected to.
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Old 03-31-2011, 05:34 PM    (permalink
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Clausen was arrogant and seemed to lack leadership qualities. Guy never had a run-in with the law. His sole run-in if you will, was transporting alcohol as a minor. That's it. Also, he never cheated...or at least wasn't caught, heh.
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Old 03-31-2011, 06:06 PM    (permalink
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I do think there is a race issue when people compare Gabbert and Newton. They played in the same style of offense, and Newton was more productive and did more within it to win games for his team, but people act like Newton is a massive project and Gabbert is pro-ready. Makes no sense.
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Old 03-31-2011, 06:35 PM    (permalink
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I do think there is a race issue when people compare Gabbert and Newton. They played in the same style of offense, and Newton was more productive and did more within it to win games for his team, but people act like Newton is a massive project and Gabbert is pro-ready. Makes no sense.
There is no race issue. Gabbert is a smart guy. He has the brain of a NFL QB. Newton, in the other hand, we don't know if he can count up to 100.
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Old 03-31-2011, 06:38 PM    (permalink
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I didn't realize that a lot of you guys were such wimps. The race card is lame and inexcusable. This is not the Warren Moon era. This is a huge multi-billion dollar business and these athletes are a huge investment for these giant corporations.

I think there is a lot of vitriol involved with Newton because he has blatantly lied about soliciting (and likely receiving) large sums of cash. On top of everything else. NFL guys don't like huge dirty secrets like that. Someone who is capable of that kind of nefariousness is capable of a lot more.

He may turn out to be a golden child after all of this, and I for one hope so. I think he is a hell of an athlete.

I honestly don't get the Gabbert love, but like PFT said, he simply isn't under the same microscope. I mean, Auburn was national champion, Newton was their QB Heisman winner, and he has had a TON of shadiness surrounding him.

It's no secret that the vast majority of sports journalists aren't that bright (not looking at you Mr. Wright). They chase easy stories and regurgitate inane thoughts. Rarely do they pursue a logical line of reasoning. Pulitzer is not in their vocabulary, website hits are.

But it boils down to this: Would you trust that this guy is going to make the best decisions on and off of the field? He's got a lot of strikes in both areas. Like I said, he's a fantastic athlete, but that doesn't make you an NFL QB. Lots of studying, practice, and the ability to make good decisions under pressure turn a good athlete a great NFL QB.
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