Buffalo Bills Discussion

[Iamcanadian]

Originally Posted by Poz51

That is simply not true, although generally speaking I agree with you, Patrick Willis, Holati Ngata, Ben Roethlisberger and Nick Mangold were drafted after such studs as Bobby Carpenter, Jamarcus Russell, Jamal Anderson, and Reggie Williams as guys that come to mind.Troy Williamson and Pacman Jones going before Demarcus Ware and Shawn Merriman still makes me laugh. It only diminishes if the impact players are taken by the time your pick comes up.
As for Watt and Jordan, I think that is a matter of opinion, mine is both are legit top ten picks, and will be impact players in a 3-4 defense, numerous scouts and professional evaluators are saying this draft is extremely or the deepest draft they have ever seen along the defensive line, because of all the impact players in the draft at DT and DE. Jordan and Watt have been in everyone's top 5 DE's overall and top three 3-4 DE's that I have seen. Jordan essentially destroyed everyone in the senior bowl, and watt has the production to match his measurables, why don't you think they will be impact players?

I'm talking about the odds not that there isn't exceptions. It is just a huge gamble to pass on what your scouts are telling you and I really doubt we will take any such gamble drafting at #3.
We are going to draft a QB or Miller, they are players we will consider. Peterson may also get some consideration, however at #3, we aren't going to reach for the slight chance that a player ranked talent wise as say a 6 to 10 will be a better player in the end than players who are clearly going in the top 5. Drafting like that is suicidal over the long run.
NE found Brady in round 6 but you won't find any GM's who believe they can solve their QB problems by waiting till round 6. Smart organizations follow their board rankings and don't reach. They may have players ranked differently than other teams because they are better at scouting than weak franchises, but in the end they still stick to their boards and believe me, Miller and Peterson are rated a notch above Jordan and Watt as potential impact players. The QB's may not rank as high but the position is so important, that teams will reach for one.
So, IMO, these are the 3 players/positions that we will pick from. Jordan and Watt aren't even in the conversation at #3.

[ruthlessrussian]

I'm with Iam on this one...we need an impact player and we can get this at 3

However, I think we can do better than Miller.

I'm sold on Pat Peterson. I have said this before. He is my pick.

Add to that Brooks Reed in the second...trade up if we must...and the best available inside backer later on and we will have the makings of a real nice defense.

[Iamcanadian]

Originally Posted by ruthlessrussian

I'm with Iam on this one...we need an impact player and we can get this at 3

However, I think we can do better than Miller.

I'm sold on Pat Peterson. I have said this before. He is my pick.

Add to that Brooks Reed in the second...trade up if we must...and the best available inside backer later on and we will have the makings of a real nice defense.

I kind of like Miller. He will be a huge sack guy in a 3-4 system on par with DeMarcus Ware although he isn't quite as big. With a huge sack guy on your roster, CB's don't have to cover as well since QB's have far less time to find a WR.
Besides that, Ralph Wilson has never paid big bucks to a CB and everytime we draft a stud, we eventually lose him in FA. Ralph has shown that he will pay big dollars to a sack artist, so at least Miller will be with us for awhile.

[Poz51]

Originally Posted by Iamcanadian

I'm talking about the odds not that there isn't exceptions. It is just a huge gamble to pass on what your scouts are telling you and I really doubt we will take any such gamble drafting at #3.
We are going to draft a QB or Miller, they are players we will consider. Peterson may also get some consideration, however at #3, we aren't going to reach for the slight chance that a player ranked talent wise as say a 6 to 10 will be a better player in the end than players who are clearly going in the top 5. Drafting like that is suicidal over the long run.
NE found Brady in round 6 but you won't find any GM's who believe they can solve their QB problems by waiting till round 6. Smart organizations follow their board rankings and don't reach. They may have players ranked differently than other teams because they are better at scouting than weak franchises, but in the end they still stick to their boards and believe me, Miller and Peterson are rated a notch above Jordan and Watt as potential impact players. The QB's may not rank as high but the position is so important, that teams will reach for one.
So, IMO, these are the 3 players/positions that we will pick from. Jordan and Watt aren't even in the conversation at #3.

Thats why I said "although I generally agree with you". I understand the odds go down, however if your scouts are worth a crap, you can land impact players after the top five. Thats my point, although again, generally speaking I agree with you...
Moving on, do you know what their scouts are telling them?
Thats a whole different world, that I am not privy too, and would bet neither are you.
Maybe their scouts are telling them Watt or Jordan can have a Seymour type impact... Who knows... Maybe they are telling them its a QB or Miller top three, Nix has seen them all in person, I am not sure how much he is actually listening to his scouts at this point, it seems like he is formulating his own opinion.
Again trading down over the long run maybe "suicide", but if that is the case why do you I always hear about teams wanting to trade down?
I would agree with you that Miller and Peterson are more impactful players, but I dont believe you, because you seem to think that your opinion is fact, or you think I am some little puke, who just started watching the draft last year.
People thought Richard Seymour was not going to be an impact end for the Pats when he was drafted at 6, and that worked out well for them. Trading down allows flexability to trade back up later, and is suicidal if you are wrong in how you work the board and evaluate players IMO. Those impact players can not do thier jobs if they are getting run over by tackles, guards and fullbacks because those "non-impact" players upfront are not holding up the offensive lineman. Who is Miller going to pass rush, or Peterson cover when other teams run all over us?
It's not like teams were pass happy against us. Us and Denver, had mud holes stomped in our @$$e$ all season long by opponents run games. Thats why trading down and landing a "non-impact" player makes sense in the 6-10 range, we need people to do the dirty work, so our "impact" players can make an impact. Im guessing you missed where Captain Canuck started and I was going off of, trading down from 3.
If we stay at three, yes Miller, a QB and Peterson make a ton of sense, but trading down and getting a trench guy who can free up others to make plays also makes sense. Jordan and Watt may or may not be in the conversation at 3, but do you know for sure?

[Poz51]

Originally Posted by ruthlessrussian

I'm with Iam on this one...we need an impact player and we can get this at 3

However, I think we can do better than Miller.

I'm sold on Pat Peterson. I have said this before. He is my pick.

Add to that Brooks Reed in the second...trade up if we must...and the best available inside backer later on and we will have the makings of a real nice defense.

I am fine with Miller or Peterson at 3, my point (and I think others as well, but they can speak for themselves) was not that we should go Watt or Jordan there, but consider trading down (pick up an extra second) and targeting one of them. I love Peterson, and would strongly endorse the pick, although I do not think (my personal opinion) it is what is best for this franchise in the long run. IMO, trading down could have a better long term affect. Peterson, Brooks Reed and Kelvin Sheppard would be a fine draft, and enhance our defense, no doubt here.

[Vox Populi]

Just give me mature guys that can lead and will put in work every day. If we don't pick a QB at #3 we shouldn't bother taking one at all just for the sake of picking a guy. I'm tired of getting the second-rate QB's after the top couple guys are off the board. Just pull the trigger early or not at all. I'd be perfectly fine if we actually picked front 7 on defense with all 9 of our picks, our run defense is a complete joke and has been for more than half a decade. I really hope we actually make up our minds on defense and pick a base formation.

The offense in incosistent but unless Evans leaves, there really aren't any immediate concerns unless there are obvious upgrades available to pick up on the line. We should just grab as many cheap free agents and UDFA players at receiver and offensive line to come in and compete during training camp (assuming it starts on time) to build our depth there instead of investing draft picks on backups there late in the draft.

[Bills2083]

I've read multiple scouting reports on Von Miller - some say he has a great repetoire of pass-rushing moves, while others say he is a one-trick pony. This is something that is of huge concern and needs to be clarified because we definitely don't need another straight-line pass rusher. Can anyone clarify whether or not Miller is more than just another Aaron Maybin?

[Iamcanadian]

Originally Posted by Bills2083

I've read multiple scouting reports on Von Miller - some say he has a great repetoire of pass-rushing moves, while others say he is a one-trick pony. This is something that is of huge concern and needs to be clarified because we definitely don't need another straight-line pass rusher. Can anyone clarify whether or not Miller is more than just another Aaron Maybin?

Miller is the real deal, the best pass rusher in this year's draft even when Bowers was considered healthy. He is DeMarcus Ware without the size.
He was way more productive in college than Maybin ever dreamed of being and has top end character as well. He had 17 sacks as a junior and while he missed a # of games as a senior, he returned and immediately put up 10 sacks.
He totally dominated the Big 12 and put Texas A&M back on the map as a football power.
I think he will be DROY without any problem since LB's tend to do well right out of college.

[Bills2083]

Originally Posted by Iamcanadian

Miller is the real deal, the best pass rusher in this year's draft even when Bowers was considered healthy. He is DeMarcus Ware without the size.
He was way more productive in college than Maybin ever dreamed of being and has top end character as well. He had 17 sacks as a junior and while he missed a # of games as a senior, he returned and immediately put up 10 sacks.
He totally dominated the Big 12 and put Texas A&M back on the map as a football power.
I think he will be DROY without any problem since LB's tend to do well right out of college.

So you think he's got enough pass-rush moves to be successful in the NFL? More than just a rush around the tackle? There's bull-rushes, swim-moves, spins inside, etc. At #3, I want an OLB who can do all that and more, and consistently get to the QB


Scan through this thread.
It scares the living day lights out of me

http://draftcountdown.com/forum/show...ght=von+miller


and...
http://blogs.nfl.com/2011/04/08/caru...ick-for-bills/

Von Miller could be the answer to the Buffalo Bills’ defensive struggles. Then again, maybe not.

While several mock drafts have the Bills taking the speedy Texas A&M linebacker with the third overall pick, NFL.com senior columnist Vic Carucci isn’t sold on the idea.

In his weekly NFL.com chat on Friday, Carucci was asked by a Bills fan if he thought Miller could potentially be a bust along the lines of 2009 first-round pick Aaron Maybin.

“I’m not comfortable with the fact that Miller’s collegiate success is mostly predicated on the tremendous outside speed he brings to the table,” Carucci said of Miller, who is the top-ranked outside linebacker on most draft experts’ rankings.

“He doesn’t seem to be as big or as strong as I’d prefer an outside linebacker to be, which were some of the raps that ultimately have proven true with Maybin.

“Could Miller get stronger? Absolutely. And there is no reason to automatically assume he is another Maybin, whose poor attitude is another factor in his horrendous NFL career. But, again, I’d be more comfortable if I saw more of a complete player in Miller.”

[Iamcanadian]

Well, everybody on NFLN including Mayock, Casserly( actually drafted for teams for 29 years), Lombardi(actually drafted for teams for 19 years) and the rest of the crew all rate Miller as the #2 overall prospect in the draft. That's good enough for me. LB's rarely ever appear in the top 5 of a draft board, for a LB to get there he has to be really special. Oh yeah, he is also the cleanest player in the draft character wise so you know he will put in the time to be great.
Maybin was a desperate reach by the Bills, I doubt any other team had him anywhere near where we picked him. He isn't close to the prospect Miller is.

[Bills2083]

I've got this strange feeling that OBD will do something crazy, again, and take Ryan Mallett at #3. I've been hoping he'd last to 34, so we can take him there, but I don't see him getting that far with the number of teams that need QBs.

[JBCX]

Von Miller is definitely going to be the next DeMarcus Ware. He's the real deal and the only other "Sure-fire" prospect alongside Patrick Peterson.

If the Bills aren't completelly sold on one of the QBs such as Cam Newton or Blaine Gabbert, they have to pick Miller. You can't pass up on elite defensive talent like that except for a QB.

[essential]

i don't know if Miller will be a stud or not ... but i do know the Bills have NEVER picked the player every single mock draft seemed to give us.

Miller makes sense, and everyone is mocking him to us ... which means he won't be the pick. there is no rhyme or reason, we just never take that obvious pick. if Newton isn't there, i have no idea what we do. probably try and trade down, but if we HAD to make a pick at #3, i think they go Peterson or possibly Green, just as a BPA.

[Iamcanadian]

According to NFLN, Miller is the BPA at #3, he's pretty well #2 on everybody's board. Peterson is #3.
Considering how bad our defense was last year, I think taking Miller is a no brainer, however, you are right, we haven't made the playoffs in how long so obviously our scouting system stinks, so we might take anybody doomed to failure.

[debrook5]

Here is a thought prob already brought up but I think it is the best option for the Bills. The Cards at 5 want to move up. They want a QB and I am not sold on either one of them. To much of a contract vs risk with the QB's this year. Trade from 3 to 5 and we can still land Von Miller or Peterson.

[ruthlessrussian]

Originally Posted by debrook5

Here is a thought prob already brought up but I think it is the best option for the Bills. The Cards at 5 want to move up. They want a QB and I am not sold on either one of them. To much of a contract vs risk with the QB's this year. Trade from 3 to 5 and we can still land Von Miller or Peterson.

This would be good depending on what we got back..

Though, I want to pose a question to you guys...say this trade goes through, do you think that Arizona is really targeting a QB or do they want Miller? It seems illogical that a now veteran coaching staff would want to bring in a rookie signal caller versus making a trade for someone with experience- then again, there is the whole issue with the lockout so I guess this (bringing in a rook qb) could be possible. However a pass rusher like Miller has to be at the top of their board and Arizona does have a SERIOUS need for an edge rusher. I think if Arizona pushes for this trade it is because they want Miller and not a qb. Just my opinion...

[ruthlessrussian]

Regarding the trade, if it were to go through, would the compensation we got in return for the trade be worth the chance of losing Miller?

[Poz51]

Originally Posted by ruthlessrussian

Regarding the trade, if it were to go through, would the compensation we got in return for the trade be worth the chance of losing Miller?

IMO, the trade to move down is thier second round pick, or thier first next year or I stay and take whomever I want. That way even if they take Miller, we get the best player in the draft (Peterson), the top QB in the draft(Gabbert, according to many) if the Panthers take Newton, Broncos take Dareus, Cardinals take Gabbert or Miller, and the Bengals take Green or they could grab Quinn, that also makes it easier to take Jordan or Watt if they really want too. That way it is worth it, unless they are in love with Miller, then you dont risk it period. If they are not in love with him they take the chance, again IMO. IF you know without a doubt that they want Gabbert, and they their second, its a no brainner...

[ruthlessrussian]

Originally Posted by Poz51

IMO, the trade to move down is thier second round pick, or thier first next year or I stay and take whomever I want. That way even if they take Miller, we get the best player in the draft (Peterson), the top QB in the draft(Gabbert, according to many) if the Panthers take Newton, Broncos take Dareus, Cardinals take Gabbert or Miller, and the Bengals take Green or they could grab Quinn, that also makes it easier to take Jordan or Watt if they really want too. That way it is worth it, unless they are in love with Miller, then you dont risk it period. If they are not in love with him they take the chance, again IMO. IF you know without a doubt that they want Gabbert, and they their second, its a no brainner...

Right? I agree! I was just curious on others thoughts about Miller to the Bills. I think regardless of whether the Cards take Miller or Gabbert we would be able to land Peterson -who has been my personal choice for like the last year haha- and then still be able to pick up a quality edge rusher in the beginning of the second round, ie Brooks Reed please. THEN with the extra second we could land a OT like Sherrod or maybe Rudolph if he is still there.

[Captain Canuck]

I'm getting close to finalizing what I want/expect the Bills to do draft day. In this drat I'm assuming the Carolina takes Newton and Denver takes Dareus. I also think these guys would be #1 and #2 on the Bills board.

If we don't take a QB in the 1st, I don't think we should take one at all. There is no point on reaching for a guy in the 2nd or 3rd who may never be more than a backup, when we should be able to get starters at other positions with those picks. Give with a chance with a stabilized line and healthy WR's and see what he can do being the #1 going into camp. If he fails we will likely have a shot at Barkley, Jones, Foles, Lindley, etc...whoever establishes themselves as the #2 or #3 QB behind Luck. (I don't think we'll be bad enough to have a shot at him)

If we don't address the 5 tech position in the 1st, I think we will wait till the 4th as this is a deep draft for D-line and its likely that the guy we draft will be a rotational player, as I feel Carrington will start. There were some performance metrics on a site that said Carrington was great in the time he played and we needed to give him more playing time.

On to the mock.......

1. Von Miller OLB Texas A&M
2. Derek Sherrod OT Miss St.
3. Kelvin Sheppard ILB LSU
4a. Curtis Marsh CB Utah St.
4b. Lawrence Guy DE Arizona St.
5. Julius Thomas TE Portland St.
6. Joe Lefeged SS Rutgers
7a. Josh Bynes ILB Auburn
7b. Allen Bradford RB USC

What are your thoughts?

*yes, I know there is a mock draft thread, but it doesn't get much traffic*

[ruthlessrussian]

No arguments here...I would be content with that.

[Poz51]

Originally Posted by Captain Canuck

I'm getting close to finalizing what I want/expect the Bills to do draft day. In this drat I'm assuming the Carolina takes Newton and Denver takes Dareus. I also think these guys would be #1 and #2 on the Bills board.

If we don't take a QB in the 1st, I don't think we should take one at all. There is no point on reaching for a guy in the 2nd or 3rd who may never be more than a backup, when we should be able to get starters at other positions with those picks. Give with a chance with a stabilized line and healthy WR's and see what he can do being the #1 going into camp. If he fails we will likely have a shot at Barkley, Jones, Foles, Lindley, etc...whoever establishes themselves as the #2 or #3 QB behind Luck. (I don't think we'll be bad enough to have a shot at him)

If we don't address the 5 tech position in the 1st, I think we will wait till the 4th as this is a deep draft for D-line and its likely that the guy we draft will be a rotational player, as I feel Carrington will start. There were some performance metrics on a site that said Carrington was great in the time he played and we needed to give him more playing time.

On to the mock.......

1. Von Miller OLB Texas A&M
2. Derek Sherrod OT Miss St.
3. Kelvin Sheppard ILB LSU
4a. Curtis Marsh CB Utah St.
4b. Lawrence Guy DE Arizona St.
5. Julius Thomas TE Portland St.
6. Joe Lefeged SS Rutgers
7a. Josh Bynes ILB Auburn
7b. Allen Bradford RB USC

What are your thoughts?

*yes, I know there is a mock draft thread, but it doesn't get much traffic*

Good thoughts, good mock, I love the 2nd -4th rounds in particular. Overall I like the draft as a whole, nice job :)

[Iamcanadian]

[quote=Captain Canuck;2578374]I'm getting close to finalizing what I want/expect the Bills to do draft day. In this drat I'm assuming the Carolina takes Newton and Denver takes Dareus. I also think these guys would be #1 and #2 on the Bills board.

If we don't take a QB in the 1st, I don't think we should take one at all. There is no point on reaching for a guy in the 2nd or 3rd who may never be more than a backup, when we should be able to get starters at other positions with those picks. Give with a chance with a stabilized line and healthy WR's and see what he can do being the #1 going into camp. If he fails we will likely have a shot at Barkley, Jones, Foles, Lindley, etc...whoever establishes themselves as the #2 or #3 QB behind Luck. (I don't think we'll be bad enough to have a shot at him)

If we don't address the 5 tech position in the 1st, I think we will wait till the 4th as this is a deep draft for D-line and its likely that the guy we draft will be a rotational player, as I feel Carrington will start. There were some performance metrics on a site that said Carrington was great in the time he played and we needed to give him more playing time.

On to the mock.......

1. Von Miller OLB Texas A&M
2. Derek Sherrod OT Miss St.
3. Kelvin Sheppard ILB LSU
4a. Curtis Marsh CB Utah St.
4b. Lawrence Guy DE Arizona St.
5. Julius Thomas TE Portland St.
6. Joe Lefeged SS Rutgers
7a. Josh Bynes ILB Auburn
7b. Allen Bradford RB USC

What are your thoughts?

I certainly love the 1st 2 picks however, it might be a stretch to think Sherrod will fall to us. NE drafts before us in round 2 and they are looking at OT's, that's of course if Sherrod doesn't go round 1 which is a more likely scenario.
As for Miller, I think we are looking at another Ware, the Cowboy's outside LB. He is going to be one heck of a dynamic player who will give our defense a real punch.
I think Kelvin Sheppard is a tad overrated and can be had in round 4.

[fischbowl]

http://www.buffalobills.com/news/art...1-9ee9eb2d9101

Can't allow a fan his halftime cigarette? Seriously?

[redbills]

Why so serious mixtape to drop very soon
http://www.g5gionline.net/category/news/
2 songs out now