NBA Discussion Thread

[Complex]

Originally Posted by M.O.T.H.

Domination tonight finally. Obviously I dont have to tell anyone that Orlando's shooting has been horrid. Open miss, after open miss. They were bound to fall eventually. No reason why Orlando couldnt duplicate this performance on Thursday...they didnt even shoot that well, tonight.

I still cannot believe how off Hedo has been. It's absolutely baffling. I just hope we're alive long enough for him to turn this around. It's freaking killing me, and really pissing me off.

I never thought we'd lose Dwight...but a first round exit, full of horrible teammate performances. Could really complicate things. It honestly has me thinking rebuild every now and then. Finding a viable/realistic trade scenario involving Dwight isnt the easiest thing to do. And I sure as hell dont want to move him to the Bulls or the Lakers. BLEH.

Anyone have some realistic Dwight trade scenarios? Obviously, it has to be a place with stars intact, a destination where a contract extension would be agreed too, and they'd have to enough young talent to actually acquire him in the first place.

I really do think it's more likely that Dwight stays and Otis Smith manages to pull another star out of his ass...but this playoff performance def. has me thinking about different options/outcomes for the future.

Tracy McGrady




sigh too bad he sucks now :(

The Magic might be able to get CP3.

[SeanTaylorRIP]

LA obviously would have the most to offer for Dwight as they have the rare 7 foot center with skill. They could make a package around Bynum, Odom, and Blake with draft picks, and also take back Agent Zero's awful contract.

[nobodyinparticular]

Agent Zero will most likely get the "amnesty clause" when the new CBA is brought into effect, so I don't think the Magic will have to worry about dumping his contract. That would leave Bynum, Odom and late 1st picks (because Blake is really a non-factor in this trade) for an elite player? Not just an elite player, but a player who is head and shoulders better than anyone else at his position.

"Oh no, that's alright, we'll give you a center who is about 18 months from graduating from the Brandon Roy School of Knees. He'll just have to finish up his courses through the distance learning department. And we'll even throw in the reigning Sixth Man and a couple picks that will turn into Sasha Vujacic and Jordan Farmar. That'll be enough to get the best center in the league, right?"

[SickwithIt1010]

Originally Posted by nobodyinparticular

Agent Zero will most likely get the "amnesty clause" when the new CBA is brought into effect, so I don't think the Magic will have to worry about dumping his contract. That would leave Bynum, Odom and late 1st picks (because Blake is really a non-factor in this trade) for an elite player? Not just an elite player, but a player who is head and shoulders better than anyone else at his position.

"Oh no, that's alright, we'll give you a center who is about 18 months from graduating from the Brandon Roy School of Knees. He'll just have to finish up his courses through the distance learning department. And we'll even throw in the reigning Sixth Man and a couple picks that will turn into Sasha Vujacic and Jordan Farmar. That'll be enough to get the best center in the league, right?"

Well, Ill take that over letting him walk in FA.

[yo123]

Originally Posted by nobodyinparticular

Agent Zero will most likely get the "amnesty clause" when the new CBA is brought into effect, so I don't think the Magic will have to worry about dumping his contract. That would leave Bynum, Odom and late 1st picks (because Blake is really a non-factor in this trade) for an elite player? Not just an elite player, but a player who is head and shoulders better than anyone else at his position.

"Oh no, that's alright, we'll give you a center who is about 18 months from graduating from the Brandon Roy School of Knees. He'll just have to finish up his courses through the distance learning department. And we'll even throw in the reigning Sixth Man and a couple picks that will turn into Sasha Vujacic and Jordan Farmar. That'll be enough to get the best center in the league, right?"

The amnesty clause only wipes away the luxury tax paid on the contract though, so they would still be stuck with Gilbert's terrible salary.

[yo123]

Originally Posted by SickwithIt1010

Well, Ill take that over letting him walk in FA.

Well you have to weigh what you're getting against the chance you think you have on keeping him, because it's really not a 100% sure thing he's leaving.

If you think there is a 1% chance he stays you aren't going to accept DJ Mbenga and a 2nd round pick for him, because the risk outweighs the reward. Hyperbole I know but you get my point.

[M.O.T.H.]

Just posted this on another site, on the very D Howard topic.

A Lakers trade would obviously start with Bynum and a Bulls trade would start with Noah. But those would just be the starting points.

Those two teams are the most obvious, though. I would actually hope someone else would jump in.

The Clippers could always offer something involving Eric Gordon plus, as well.

It's going to get interesting if it ever comes to this.

The Thunder could make an offer with some of their young talent, but it may not be the most enticing offer. They could offer Serge/Harden +, but Harden hasnt looked all that good in the league. Maynor and Aldrich offer potential as well.

Lakers, Bulls, Thunder, Clippers, Hawks, maybe the Blazers. Probably what we're looking at as far as trade suitors may go. I include the Clippers...because they have young pieces, and the opportunity to play in LA next to Griffin may be something Howard would like. Even though, the paint would be crowded as hell.

Maybe you could include the Nets as well...but I doubt they'd even pursue it. Conversations would start with Brook Lopez.

As was said by another poster...it'd be really tough, but maybe they can pry away another star, somewhere...and Dwight stays. I still think that's the likliest of scenarios, but a first round loss scares me, when regarding Dwight's future.

[SickwithIt1010]

Are the magic really gonna be able to pay another star the money they would want. Will they have enough money to spend here in a year to resign Dwight and give another max contract to CP3 or D Will?

I just cant see him staying.

[M.O.T.H.]

Originally Posted by SickwithIt1010

Are the magic really gonna be able to pay another star the money they would want. Will they have enough money to spend here in a year to resign Dwight and give another max contract to CP3 or D Will?

I just cant see him staying.

They'd obviously have to clear cap room...it'd be difficult. The new CBA could help, in regards to Arenas. But in any case...Orlando is the second highest paid team in the league now, with a billionaire owner. They're not afraid to spend money.

I still think there is a good chance that Dwight just up and stays anyway. Another star or not. Orlando is a fantastic place to play. He's close with SVG and he has an active GM and again, a big spending owner. There are worse situations to be in. And his star isnt going to rise anymore. I still think he stays...but I've just grown a little more worried, due to the team's poor performance in the playoffs. If more doubt creeps in that he cant win here, then maybe he does walk. We'll have to wait and see.

I've said it before, though...playing in say Cleveland or Denver doesnt compare to playing in Orlando. Just because he can walk like Melo or Lebron, doesnt mean he necessarily will. I think the chances of him leaving, are much, much lower than those two guys.

[JETS5128]

Originally Posted by M.O.T.H.

They'd obviously have to clear cap room...it'd be difficult. The new CBA could help, in regards to Arenas. But in any case...Orlando is the second highest paid team in the league now, with a billionaire owner. They're not afraid to spend money.

I still think there is a good chance that Dwight just up and stays anyway. Another star or not. Orlando is a fantastic place to play. He's close with SVG and he has an active GM and again, a big spending owner. There are worse situations to be in. And his star isnt going to rise anymore. I still think he stays...but I've just grown a little more worried, due to the team's poor performance in the playoffs. If more doubt creeps in that he cant win here, then maybe he does walk. We'll have to wait and see.

I've said it before, though...playing in say Cleveland or Denver doesnt compare to playing in Orlando. Just because he can walk like Melo or Lebron, doesnt mean he necessarily will. I think the chances of him leaving, are much, much lower than those two guys.

Sorry man but i really only see two scenarios here

1. CP3/D-Will to Orlando (although it looks like williams might like the NEts)

2. No big moves and Dwight gets the **** out

People who got sick of "Melodrama" this year are gonna **** a brick next year when the Dwightie speculation is 3x as bad. Especially considering it could actually be a competitive trade market

[Complex]

D-Will and Dwight Howard playing together for the Brooklyn Nets(for now) equal championship.

Oh and T-Mac will play for the Brooklyn Nets and become 6 man of the year.

[Bosanac01]

I'll give Josh Smith, Joe Johnson, and draft picks for Howard.

[M.O.T.H.]

Originally Posted by JETS5128

Sorry man but i really only see two scenarios here

1. CP3/D-Will to Orlando (although it looks like williams might like the NEts)

2. No big moves and Dwight gets the **** out

People who got sick of "Melodrama" this year are gonna **** a brick next year when the Dwightie speculation is 3x as bad. Especially considering it could actually be a competitive trade market

Meh...I have no delusions. Everyone just assumes every FA will jump ship these days. Dwight's frustrations have never reached the levels of that of Lebron's or Melo's. And he's already playing in one of the top geographical locations in the league, with a brand new arena. Now, he may very well walk...but I def. think the chances are much less likely that he does. There is certainly some reason to worry if you're a Magic fan. But that worry is not on the same level as what the Cav or Nugget fans faced. The situations are different and Orlando really does have a lot of good things going for it. Location/living environment, remains one of the biggest keys to FA movement/relocation. And it doesnt get much better than Orlando here. And I already brought up the facts about his relationship with SVG and ownership/managements willingness and ability to acquire talent around Dwight.

This may lead to nothing and he just leaves...but these factors cannot just be ignored. Orlando really isnt the worst situation for Dwight and his family.

This is just how I see it, from a non-biased point of view. If trade rumors heat up...I'll be first in line, mocking trades up. Because while I love Dwight, and want him around...if they were to rebuild, I'd welcome it. For me as a fan, while it can be hell for a while, the rebuilding phase has always interested me. To see your team built from the ground up through the draft/trades for young talent is exciting. So long as you start to see a growth in team comradery/chemistry and a steady rise into a good team. It's all the more rewarding, then say, building your team through crazy trades or signing the biggest of named free agents.

[Bosanac01]

I think the biggest problem with Turk right now is confidence. Chubby Van Gundy keeps flaming him and saying how terrible he is, it's hard for anyone to play good when their coach is like that.

[M.O.T.H.]

Originally Posted by Bosanac01

I think the biggest problem with Turk right now is confidence. Chubby Van Gundy keeps flaming him and saying how terrible he is, it's hard for anyone to play good when their coach is like that.

Meh...I agree it's a confidence thing. But I wouldnt put any blame on SVG. Turk is a bit of a head case...he alters his shot often. And he doesnt like to be as aggressive as he once was anymore. He passed up so many wide open looks all season long for some reason. The team has been asking him to be more assertive and more of a scoring presence, like he used to be...and Hedo hasnt handled it that well, for whatever reason. SVG has been encouraging him to be more aggressive and shoot himself out of the slump....but of course, he wants him to take good shots and drive, if the jumper isnt falling. Hedo, isnt the easiest player to keep under control. He's a good guy, but he gets a little prideful out there...he'll take awful, awful shots when he's trying to force himself out of a slump. He used to drive more, when he saw these struggles, but now a days, he just jacks up bad, mostly contested, threes. His head is just not right at all, currently. But again, I wouldnt put that on Stan. Van Gundy actually knows a lot more about Hedo, than a lot of other people seem to. He's a player that you have to stay on, or he can really make some weird decisions. Stan is normally good at getting him back into things.

SVG mentioned that Hedo was at his best when he would just let things come naturally...but he believes Hedo is just thinking way too much out there, and predetermining everything that he is doing. You may think that all that shouting is counter-productive then, but really it isnt. Turk's mentality is all screwed up, and Stan is trying hard to get him over it. Really, he just wants him to focus and let things open up for him. And not overthink every little action. They have an interesting relationship...but Hedo is a better player because of Stan.

I know a lot of people dont like Stan's shouting and antics...but I wouldnt want him handling players like Hedo or Howard any other way. Both can lose control/focus during games. SVG knows what he's doing, and he can get the best out of those guys.

[fenikz]

Originally Posted by M.O.T.H.

The Thunder could make an offer with some of their young talent, but it may not be the most enticing offer. They could offer Serge/Harden +, but Harden hasnt looked all that good in the league. Maynor and Aldrich offer potential as well.

I'd assume you would get Perkins as well

Perkins, Harden and Maynor trumps Bynum and anything the Lakers have imo.

plus Harden is a lot better than the haters here lead you to believe, he plays great defense and has averaged 16 3 3 since Green was traded

[M.O.T.H.]

Originally Posted by fenikz

I'd assume you would get Perkins as well

Perkins, Harden and Maynor trumps Bynum and anything the Lakers have imo.

plus Harden is a lot better than the haters here lead you to believe, he plays great defense and has averaged 16 3 3 since Green was traded

I'd rather have something including Ibaka, or I wouldnt really be interested. His ceiling is very high. You're right, though...I didnt even think of Perkins. He'd be pretty useless with Howard on board. He'd be welcomed edition.

Harden and Ibaka would have to be involved in any deal, I'm sure.

edit...Now that I look at things a little more, I may want the Thunder to emerge as front runners, if a Dwight trade ever came to fruition. They have tons of young talent to offer.

Harden, Ibaka, Perkins, and maybe more...it's not awful.

[fenikz]

but at what point are the Thunder just competing with themselves

doubt anyone could top Perkins & Harden why even throw in Serge or Maynor

[yo123]

Even with Harden's improvement Bynum/Odom is about 9000 times better than Perk/Harden.

[fenikz]

I'd take Perkins over Bynum's injury prone ass any day, maybe if they could find a 3rd team to take Odom and get a younger player in return it would be a better trade for rebuilding

If the Thunder wanted to go balls out a package of Perkins, Serge, Harden, Maynor would be hard to refuse

[SeanTaylorRIP]

Originally Posted by Bosanac01

I think the biggest problem with Turk right now is confidence. Chubby Van Gundy keeps flaming him and saying how terrible he is, it's hard for anyone to play good when their coach is like that.

He's a 32 year old vet shooting 20% from the field in this series, if he can't take his coach telling him he is awful which is an understatement, he shouldn't even be out there. Hedo has regressed so much even from 2 years ago, it's time for people to accept this. People are expecting Hedo, J-Rich, Gilbert, to be the players they were even 2 years ago, but there is a reason their respective teams traded them away. They are all on the downhill. Sure they are capable of once in a while vintage performances but to expect any of them to be great on a given night is not realisitic anymore. People are expecting Hedo to lead them to an eastern conference championship like he once did, but he simply isn't capable anymore. Orlando has just made way too many moves just for the sake of making moves and trying to stay relevant in media outlets. Should have just kept players like Gortat and Courtney Lee. You would have thought that moving Rashard was a good move, and it could have been yet you move him for someone even older(health wise), and an even larger contract.

[M.O.T.H.]

Originally Posted by fenikz

but at what point are the Thunder just competing with themselves

doubt anyone could top Perkins & Harden why even throw in Serge or Maynor

I'd argue that Serge would be the most vauable piece to any deal. And when it comes to Howard, I seriously doubt they'd be dealing against themselves...ever. I'd want Harden/Serge to be the starting point. And they'd almost have to include Perkins in a deal.

[M.O.T.H.]

Perkins is injury proned too...

But if we're talking:

Harden, Serge, and Perkins vs. Bynum and Odom.

I'm going with the former. Harden and Serge are barely drinking age, and Perkins is a young defensive presence. Bynum gets overrated because of his age, but in actuality, his "true age" is probably no where near this. His knees are in horrendous shape. And while Odom is a valuable piece for any franchise...he is in his 30s and not the greatest player to start re-building around.

Giving up Harden, Serge, and Perkins may look like a lot to give up...but the Thunder are certainly in a place to do it.

It would be tough for any team to match this type of offer, imo. Given youth and upside.

[Halsey]

Seriously, of Howard goes to the Lakers or Bulls the NBA should just get rid of all non-major market teams. The NBA could just be:

Lakers
Celtics
Knicks
Bulls
and maybe a few others

It'll be extra annoying if he goes to the Lakers. Is there some kind of secret rule that states the Lakers always have to have a star center? They don't ever need to worry about drafting a center. They can just bring in one from another team anytime they need one.

[M.O.T.H.]

Yeah...it pisses me off too. Championship teams in the NBA are like a fraternity...there really doesnt seem to be a whole lot of parody, when it comes to championship winners.

And more than likely...if they trade him, he'll end up on one of those two teams. Granted, if the Thunder got him...they could be an unmatched super team...but hey, I like the Thunder...so I'd rather see that than the Bulls and Lakers winning every championship again.