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Old 03-28-2007, 07:06 PM    (permalink
MP123
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Originally Posted by Jughead10 View Post
In recent times, The Patriots. I don't think that can be argued.
Absolutely.
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Old 03-28-2007, 07:13 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by GB12 View Post
For your recent I don't see how you can put Carolina in the same category as NE, same with Baltimore. Well really you can't put anyone with them.

Also what are we considering recent? since 1990, 96, 2000, 2002, what?
Since 2000.

Carolina are in there with them because if you look at their record under john fox they've been incredibly successful.

Superbowl and NFCCG appearance in three years. The other two years the team ranked last and second last for the rate of starters missing games.

Last year the team had the 7th ranked defense while missing the middle linebacker, one defensive end, a safety and 2 cornerbacks for a lot of games. No one on that defense was healthy and it still ranked 7th with no offensive support.

Steve Smith, Foster, Williams, Wahle, Hartwig, Wharton, Delhomme, Hoover, Seidman all went down at some point in the year, yet the team still pushed for a playoff spot and went 5-1 in the divison.

Fox took a team that was 1-15 and took them 7-9 before a superbowl birth in 03. In 04 the team had 22 players on IR... 14 of them starters. The next year the team went to the NFCCG and lost because we had injuries at RG, to our first 6 RBs on the depth chart, peppers, jenkins, morgan and minter.

Our free agent acquisitions were Stephen Davis before 03 who got 1444 yards on the season, we drafted Peppers, Jenkins, Witherspoon, Gamble, Smith, Gross, Wharton, Ricky manning Jr, who're all extremely good in their roles. We've brought in Ken Lucas pro bowl calibre CB, Maake Kemoeatu who's been very impressive, Mike Wahle who's one of the best run blocking gaurds in the NFL and also got keyshawn johnson.

Jake Delhomme was a diamond in the rough find and one of the best all time in the postseason. Every year we have players go onto big pay days elsewhere who we draft or brought in as journeymen. The team finds brilliant ways to find talent and get the best out of it. The only challenge has been staying healthy.

Realistically even looking at last years draft the team came away with two big steals in DeAngelo Williams and Richard Marshall a player who's outplayed all cornerbacks in the draft.

How can Carolina not be up there when they've consistently beaten those in lofty status, consistently made the playoffs and made noise once there?

This team's front office is very, very good. The whole staying healthy thing has been this teams real rival for the better part of three years now.
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Old 03-28-2007, 07:17 PM    (permalink
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SINCE THE NFL BEGGINNING

Steelers
Bears
Packers
Patriots
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Old 03-28-2007, 07:19 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by BlindSite View Post
Since 2000.

Carolina are in there with them because if you look at their record under john fox they've been incredibly successful.

Superbowl and NFCCG appearance in three years. The other two years the team ranked last and second last for the rate of starters missing games.

Last year the team had the 7th ranked defense while missing the middle linebacker, one defensive end, a safety and 2 cornerbacks for a lot of games. No one on that defense was healthy and it still ranked 7th with no offensive support.

Steve Smith, Foster, Williams, Wahle, Hartwig, Wharton, Delhomme, Hoover, Seidman all went down at some point in the year, yet the team still pushed for a playoff spot and went 5-1 in the divison.

Fox took a team that was 1-15 and took them 7-9 before a superbowl birth in 03. In 04 the team had 22 players on IR... 14 of them starters. The next year the team went to the NFCCG and lost because we had injuries at RG, to our first 6 RBs on the depth chart, peppers, jenkins, morgan and minter.

Our free agent acquisitions were Stephen Davis before 03 who got 1444 yards on the season, we drafted Peppers, Jenkins, Witherspoon, Gamble, Smith, Gross, Wharton, Ricky manning Jr, who're all extremely good in their roles. We've brought in Ken Lucas pro bowl calibre CB, Maake Kemoeatu who's been very impressive, Mike Wahle who's one of the best run blocking gaurds in the NFL and also got keyshawn johnson.

Jake Delhomme was a diamond in the rough find and one of the best all time in the postseason. Every year we have players go onto big pay days elsewhere who we draft or brought in as journeymen. The team finds brilliant ways to find talent and get the best out of it. The only challenge has been staying healthy.

Realistically even looking at last years draft the team came away with two big steals in DeAngelo Williams and Richard Marshall a player who's outplayed all cornerbacks in the draft.

How can Carolina not be up there when they've consistently beaten those in lofty status, consistently made the playoffs and made noise once there?

This team's front office is very, very good. The whole staying healthy thing has been this teams real rival for the better part of three years now.
Yes, Carolina is one of the best new franchises of the past 20 years no doubt. They need a SB ring though.

But its hard to put Carolina in as top 5 to me, because theres so much history with other franchises, its hard for me to put such a young franchise in there.

The Bears, Packers and Giants should be top 3 by default. Those 3 teams made the NFL what it is. The next 2 in the top 5 should probably be the Steelers, and (hate to say it) the Cowboys. This is looking at it from a historical perspective.
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Old 03-28-2007, 07:23 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Dam8610 View Post
For those citing Super Bowl victories, I guess the NFL pre-1965 doesn't count to you?
No it doesn't count......a far a most people are concerned unless your a Cleveland Browns fan and then you have a legit beef
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Old 03-28-2007, 07:25 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by BlindSite View Post
Since 2000.

Carolina are in there with them because if you look at their record under john fox they've been incredibly successful.

Superbowl and NFCCG appearance in three years. The other two years the team ranked last and second last for the rate of starters missing games.

Last year the team had the 7th ranked defense while missing the middle linebacker, one defensive end, a safety and 2 cornerbacks for a lot of games. No one on that defense was healthy and it still ranked 7th with no offensive support.

Steve Smith, Foster, Williams, Wahle, Hartwig, Wharton, Delhomme, Hoover, Seidman all went down at some point in the year, yet the team still pushed for a playoff spot and went 5-1 in the divison.

Fox took a team that was 1-15 and took them 7-9 before a superbowl birth in 03. In 04 the team had 22 players on IR... 14 of them starters. The next year the team went to the NFCCG and lost because we had injuries at RG, to our first 6 RBs on the depth chart, peppers, jenkins, morgan and minter.

Our free agent acquisitions were Stephen Davis before 03 who got 1444 yards on the season, we drafted Peppers, Jenkins, Witherspoon, Gamble, Smith, Gross, Wharton, Ricky manning Jr, who're all extremely good in their roles. We've brought in Ken Lucas pro bowl calibre CB, Maake Kemoeatu who's been very impressive, Mike Wahle who's one of the best run blocking gaurds in the NFL and also got keyshawn johnson.

Jake Delhomme was a diamond in the rough find and one of the best all time in the postseason. Every year we have players go onto big pay days elsewhere who we draft or brought in as journeymen. The team finds brilliant ways to find talent and get the best out of it. The only challenge has been staying healthy.

Realistically even looking at last years draft the team came away with two big steals in DeAngelo Williams and Richard Marshall a player who's outplayed all cornerbacks in the draft.

How can Carolina not be up there when they've consistently beaten those in lofty status, consistently made the playoffs and made noise once there?

This team's front office is very, very good. The whole staying healthy thing has been this teams real rival for the better part of three years now.
Yes but they have consistently under achieved, for the last three years every one has predicted the panthers to at least make it to the super bowl
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Old 03-28-2007, 07:25 PM    (permalink
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No it doesn't count......a far a most people are concerned unless your a Cleveland Browns fan and then you have a legit beef
Why wouldn't it count? Because it is not called the "Superbowl"? Is that your argument. What is the Superbowl, the NFL Championship. So why wouldn't an NFL championship count?
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Old 03-28-2007, 07:28 PM    (permalink
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Yes but they have consistently under achieved, for the last three years every one has predicted the panthers to at least make it to the super bowl
Did you not read what I said about injuries? 2 of the past 3 years we've lost pivotal players. Last year here's out injury list for more than one game.

QB -3 games
FB - 2 games
RB1 - 4 games
RB 2 - 4 games
LT - 16 games
C- 16 games
LG - 3 games
DE - 3 games
CB - 4 games
CB2 - 3 Games
S - 5 Games
MLB - 16 games
WLB - 3 games
WR1 - 2 games
WR 3 - 2 games
TE1 - 16 games

Need I go on?

Edit: we still went 8-8 and 5-1 in the division including a sweep of new orleans.
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Old 03-28-2007, 07:31 PM    (permalink
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Why wouldn't it count? Because it is not called the "Superbowl"? Is that your argument. What is the Superbowl, the NFL Championship. So why wouldn't an NFL championship count?
I think I phrased it wrong....it does count but even the NFL doesn't hype the accomplishments of teams before the super bowl era....if they cared they would just add NFL Championships(not AFL Championships mind you) to the total of Super Bowls that teams have won. The NFL would count total number of championship rather then just Super Bowl Victories
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Old 03-28-2007, 07:35 PM    (permalink
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Ccccooollts. :]
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Old 03-28-2007, 07:50 PM    (permalink
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In history.
1.SF
2.Pitt
3.Dallas
4.Oakland
5.NE
6.WAS
7.GB
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Old 03-28-2007, 08:12 PM    (permalink
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Recently = Baltimore Ravens / New England Patirots

History = Packers/ Bears/ Steelers
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Old 03-28-2007, 08:37 PM    (permalink
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1)Green Bay- won first two super bowls, sucess continues, once a dynasty, greatest history
2)Pittsburgh- been to most super bowls, once a dynasty
3)New England- Lost 2 SB's b4 winning 3 of 4, dynasty in an age when people thought one could not arise
4)San Fran-5-0 in SB, had sucess with YA Title in the 70's and Jeff Garcia in the late 90's
5)Miami-First perfect season, many SB's
6)Dallas-2nd most SB's always have been good in every decade
7)Oakland-Many super bowls, many great players
8)Chicago-Most dominant D ever, a return to greatness is happening todau
9)Balt/Indy Colts-Team defined the game in the 50's
10)Cleveland Browns-First real dynasty
11)Washington-Many super bowls and wins
12)Baltimore Ravens-Most dominate D in the 90's-00's
13)NY Giants-2 SB wins, one of the 3 greatest D's ever
14)Kansas City-First good AFL team
15)NY Jets-First AFL team to win SB
Honorable mention: Buffalo Bills and Minnesota Vikings
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Old 03-28-2007, 08:42 PM    (permalink
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Jaguars.

Why?

Because I said so.
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Old 03-28-2007, 08:45 PM    (permalink
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Jaguars.

Why?

Because I said so.
You could find good reasos, like they killed Marino in his last game, wasnt that a 63-7 playoff win for JAX?
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Old 03-28-2007, 08:48 PM    (permalink
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Which franchise is worth the most money?
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Old 03-28-2007, 09:03 PM    (permalink
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In history.
1.SF
2.Pitt
3.Dallas
4.Oakland
5.NE
6.WAS
7.GB
How far back does said 'history' reach?
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Old 03-28-2007, 09:10 PM    (permalink
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In history.
1.SF
2.Pitt
3.Dallas
4.Oakland
5.NE
6.WAS
7.GB
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Originally Posted by Boston View Post
How far back does said 'history' reach?
Seriously, GB is called Titletown for a reason.
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Old 03-28-2007, 09:20 PM    (permalink
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1)Green Bay- won first two super bowls, sucess continues, once a dynasty, greatest history
2)Pittsburgh- been to most super bowls, once a dynasty
3)New England- Lost 2 SB's b4 winning 3 of 4, dynasty in an age when people thought one could not arise
4)San Fran-5-0 in SB, had sucess with YA Title in the 70's and Jeff Garcia in the late 90's
Honorable mention: Buffalo Bills and Minnesota Vikings
I hate to be a homer (but lord knows this thread is full of them anyway) but to have New England ranked ahead of SF is ludicrous. The Pats are very good, but they've won 3 Super Bowls and 3<5. Plus, their dynasty has extended just 6 years-- meaning they've got roughly ten more years to go before they can claim to match the longevity of SF's 16 year run, from their first SB win in '81 to Steve Young's last full season in '98. So the only question remaining is whether you really count 3 lost Super Bowls for the Pats more than two won Super Bowls for the Niners. To me there's no comparison.

Who knows... in another 5-10 years the Patriots might be legitimately ahead of the 49ers, but for now, no way. Especially when you consider the level of competition. The 49ers of the eighties and nineties were competing against Chicago's 46 defense, the Giants under Parcells, the Redskins under Gibbs, the Cowboys of the early nineties, and the Packers with Holmgren and Favre. Who are the great teams the Patriots have had to overcome? The Colts with Peyton might be one, and that first SB win over the Rams' "Greatest Show on Turf" was truly spectacular, but none of their other opponents rise to the level of competition the 49ers dynasty faced.
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Old 03-28-2007, 09:38 PM    (permalink
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Hey Bsaza, if you're America's poster, can I be Canada's poster?

Also, Broncos FTW.

And also Steelers, 9ers, Packers, Bears, and everyone except the Raiders.
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Old 03-28-2007, 09:44 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by doingthisinsteadofwork View Post
In history.
1.SF
2.Pitt
3.Dallas
4.Oakland
5.NE
6.WAS
7.GB
Maybe you should do your homework becuase no way on God's green earth are the Oakland Raiders, New England Patriots, and Washington Redskins better franchises than the Green Bay Packers. Even Oakland is a stretch. Question: Who's the Super Bowl trophy named after???? Who won the 1st 2 Super Bowls??? Who plays in the most storied NFL Stadium???? Who palyed in the most imfamous game ever????? Last of all, who has won more World Championships than any other franchise with 12???? Like I said do your homework!!!!
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Old 03-28-2007, 09:47 PM    (permalink
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Some of you don't know anything about the history of the game. I'd love to hear some reasoning why the Bills and Vikings, who have never won a championship, are historically a better franchise than the Bears, who have won 9.

Seriously, if you're talking about historically, the lowest you could put the Packers or the Bears is in the top 5.
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Old 03-28-2007, 09:54 PM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
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Some of you don't know anything about the history of the game. I'd love to hear some reasoning why the Bills and Vikings, who have never won a championship, are historically a better franchise than the Bears, who have won 9.

Seriously, if you're talking about historically, the lowest you could put the Packers or the Bears is in the top 5.
Its about damn time you posted in this thread.

Ive said that the Bears, Packers, and Giants should be in the top 3 by default. I have Pittsburgh and Dallas to round out the top 5.

The Colts? Im unsure where they stand. Most of their historic success was in Baltimore. And Cleveland and Cinncy had a lot of success too, but I wouldn't put them in the top 5.
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Old 03-28-2007, 09:56 PM    (permalink
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I've got to go with the Bears Steelers and Packers along with the Giants. The owners of those teams helped pave the way for the NFL to be what it is today. Of course a few of those guys are dead, but the family and what the franchises mean with wins championships and lplayers in the HOF is incredible. The niners and pats have had success here and there, but they are not in the same category as these others. The Browns and the Raiders also have alot to do with success of the NFL. There is alot more than a couple of good years to consider about whio and what is great.
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Old 03-28-2007, 09:57 PM    (permalink
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Here kids....read...it's good for you.

http://www.profootballhof.com/history/teams.jsp

www.nfl.com/history
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