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Old 03-28-2007, 09:58 PM    (permalink
bearsfan_51
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Its about damn time you posted in this thread.

Ive said that the Bears, Packers, and Giants should be in the top 3 by default. I have Pittsburgh and Dallas to round out the top 5.

The Colts? Im unsure where they stand. Most of their historic success was in Baltimore. And Cleveland and Cinncy had a lot of success too, but I wouldn't put them in the top 5.
I think I'd put San Fran in the top 5 and have the Giants at #6 on the outside just looking in. But yes.

I posted by 10 ten historical franchises before with lots of analysis, but I'm too lazy to do that again.
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Old 03-28-2007, 10:01 PM    (permalink
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green bay, pittsburg and oakland imo
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Old 03-28-2007, 10:02 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bearsfan_51 View Post
I think I'd put San Fran in the top 5 and have the Giants at #6 on the outside just looking in. But yes.

I posted by 10 ten historical franchises before with lots of analysis, but I'm too lazy to do that again.
San Fran is up there. I think the Giants belong in top 3 because of their impact on the league. There wouldn't be a Green Bay if it wasn't for Mara. There probably wouldn't be the Steelers either. Plus, the coaching trees, the spike, the gatorade splash, the class they run by, theres so much history to the franchise, its impossible to me to leave them out of the top 3.

Call me a homer, but I think theyre top 3. The Bears are the most successful franchise in the league, followed by the Packers, then the Giants.
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Old 03-28-2007, 10:15 PM    (permalink
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There wouldn't be a Green Bay if it wasn't for Mara
What do you mean there wouldnt be a Green Bay without Mara?
Green Bay was sucessful before Lombardi
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Old 03-28-2007, 10:17 PM    (permalink
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What do you mean there wouldnt be a Green Bay without Mara?
Green Bay was sucessful before Lombardi
Revenue sharing. Without it, small market teams wouldn't survive.

Mara was the biggest supporter of the idea, even though the idea meant the Giants would have stiffer competition, and less wins and profits as a result.
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Old 03-28-2007, 10:31 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Revenue sharing. Without it, small market teams wouldn't survive.

Mara was the biggest supporter of the idea, even though the idea meant the Giants would have stiffer competition, and less wins and profits as a result.
It's too bad that we can't, like, clone Wellington Mara and Pete Rozelle.
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Old 03-28-2007, 10:33 PM    (permalink
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1. Green Bay
9 NFL Championships, 3 Super Bowls, 12 total
624-500-36 [regular season W-L-T], .533
24-14 [postseason W-L], .632

2. Chicago
8 NFL Championships, 1 Super Bowl, 9 total
670-482-41, .579
16-17, .485

3. Dallas
5 Super Bowls, 5 total
401-299-6, .572
32-23, .582

4. New York
4 NFL Championships, 2 Super Bowls, 6 total
596-500-33 W-L-T, .543
16-23 W-L, .410

5. San Francisco
5 Super Bowls, 5 total
483-382-15, .557
26-18, .591

6. Pittsburgh
5 Super Bowls, 5 total
503-492-21, .505
28-19, .596

7. Washington
2 NFL Championships, 3 Super Bowls, 5 total
520-479-27, .520
23-16, .590

8. Oakland
1 AFL Championship, 3 Super Bowls, 4 total
396-301-11, .567
25-18, .581

9. Indianapolis
3 NFL Championships, 2 Super Bowls, 5 total
402-381-7, .513
17-16. .515

10. New England
3 Super Bowls, 3 total
350-349-9, .501
19-12, .613
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Old 03-28-2007, 10:39 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Big Mike View Post
SINCE THE NFL BEGGINNING

Steelers
Bears
Packers
Patriots
Really? 3 championships in 4 years for the Pats erases all the previous decades of ineptitude for them? Prior to 01, would they have even been ranked in the top 20 NFL franchises of all-time?

Also, for the people doing "recent" history and listing more than one team, how do you not have the Colts? 60 wins in the past 5 years, 50 in the past 4 (only the 2nd team in NFL history to do that), and the reigning World Champions isn't good enough to be on the short list of great franchises in "recent history"?
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Old 03-28-2007, 10:40 PM    (permalink
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Old 03-28-2007, 10:44 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bearsfan_51 View Post
Some of you don't know anything about the history of the game. I'd love to hear some reasoning why the Bills and Vikings, who have never won a championship, are historically a better franchise than the Bears, who have won 9.

Seriously, if you're talking about historically, the lowest you could put the Packers or the Bears is in the top 5.
As a diehard-Vikings fan, I think they shouldn't even be in this conversation. The words "Minnesota Vikings" are synonymous with the words "incompetant" and "heart-breaking". We haven't done anything to even be considered a great franchise.
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Old 03-28-2007, 10:44 PM    (permalink
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Which franchise is worth the most money?
The Redskins i think are 1.27B. Why?
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Old 03-28-2007, 10:44 PM    (permalink
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Prior to 01, would they have even been ranked in the top 20 NFL franchises of all-time?
Yes they lost two superbowls, one to the '85 Bears, other to the '96 Pack with Favre in his prime and Reggie White,Gilbert Brown etc. Tough games
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Old 03-28-2007, 10:46 PM    (permalink
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Why dont we do this by voting?
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Old 03-28-2007, 10:48 PM    (permalink
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1. Green Bay
9 NFL Championships, 3 Super Bowls, 12 total
624-500-36 [regular season W-L-T], .533
24-14 [postseason W-L], .632

2. Chicago
8 NFL Championships, 1 Super Bowl, 9 total
670-482-41, .579
16-17, .485

3. Dallas
5 Super Bowls, 5 total
401-299-6, .572
32-23, .582

4. New York
4 NFL Championships, 2 Super Bowls, 6 total
596-500-33 W-L-T, .543
12-23 W-L, .410

5. San Francisco
5 Super Bowls, 5 total
483-382-15, .557
26-18, .591

6. Pittsburgh
5 Super Bowls, 5 total
503-492-21, .505
28-19, .596

7. Indianapolis
3 NFL Championships, 2 Super Bowls, 5 total
402-381-7, .513
17-16. .515
Good list. I'm not sure Indy belongs on there as I'd probably rather have Washington or Oakland.
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Old 03-28-2007, 10:52 PM    (permalink
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Good list. I'm not sure Indy belongs on there as I'd probably rather have Washington or Oakland.
Yea, I just sorta crapped that out, and on second thought, Wash and Oak would go ahead of Indy.
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Old 03-28-2007, 10:54 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by ny10804 View Post
1. Green Bay
9 NFL Championships, 3 Super Bowls, 12 total
624-500-36 [regular season W-L-T], .533
24-14 [postseason W-L], .632

2. Chicago
8 NFL Championships, 1 Super Bowl, 9 total
670-482-41, .579
16-17, .485

3. Dallas
5 Super Bowls, 5 total
401-299-6, .572
32-23, .582

4. New York
4 NFL Championships, 2 Super Bowls, 6 total
596-500-33 W-L-T, .543
12-23 W-L, .410

5. San Francisco
5 Super Bowls, 5 total
483-382-15, .557
26-18, .591

6. Pittsburgh
5 Super Bowls, 5 total
503-492-21, .505
28-19, .596

7. Indianapolis
3 NFL Championships, 2 Super Bowls, 5 total
402-381-7, .513
17-16. .515
7th? Wow, that's a lot higher than I'd've thought.
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Old 03-28-2007, 10:59 PM    (permalink
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Alright, finished the list.

(this is me BSing to cover up a double post)
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Old 03-28-2007, 11:00 PM    (permalink
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7th? Wow, that's a lot higher than I'd've thought.
Get used to 9th. :p
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Old 03-28-2007, 11:19 PM    (permalink
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Get used to 9th. :p
Hey, without looking, I wouldn't have even put the Colts in the top 10. I'll take 9th.
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Old 03-28-2007, 11:59 PM    (permalink
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Why dont we do this by voting?
Because the majority of the people that post here don't know anything about the history of the NFL. What would that prove other than how ignorant most people are about the NFL prior to 20 years ago?
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Old 03-29-2007, 01:21 AM    (permalink
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The real question here is how do we count the NFL championships pre-merger? Should they count the same as SBs or just a bit less because there weren't as many teams in the league and pro-football hadn't yet evolved into the top flight sport it is today (college football was still the king in the early days of the NFL).

IMO, the top five are GB, SF, Dallas, Chicago, and Pittsburgh, maybe in that order, but I could definitely be persuaded to shift it around (although I think GB has to be #1). I think the two teams just on the outside and looking in would be the Giants and Browns. The case for the Giants has already been made, so I won't make it again, but people don't realize how dominant Cleveland was in the 40's-50's. They crushed the competition in the AAFC before joining the NFL along with the Colts and 49ers, then proceeded to crush the NFL competition over the next few years, proving that they hadn't been succeeding merely because the competition wasn't up to snuff.

Personally, I think we need to kind of leave Mara's influence out of the equation. There's no doubt he was a great guy and a fantastic league architect, but it just makes the situation a lot easier to dissect if we stick with on the field performance. Otherwise, Raiders fans will be here screaming about how the merger might never have happened without Al Davis, and Niner and Packer fans will be arguing over who impacted the game more-- Lombardi or Walsh. At least if we stick to on the field stuff, there's some kind of an objective standard.
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Old 03-29-2007, 05:17 AM    (permalink
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Because the majority of the people that post here don't know anything about the history of the NFL. What would that prove other than how ignorant most people are about the NFL prior to 20 years ago?
Twenty? Don't you think that's being a bit generous?
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Old 03-29-2007, 07:31 AM    (permalink
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I don't want to be an homer, or to argue if the Cowboys are or not the best franchise in the history of the NFL. But that's an intersting reading about why they're known as America's Team:

"After the '78 season, the Cowboys had just lost a crushing Super Bowl to the Steelers. I wanted to come up with a different twist on their team highlight film. I noticed then, and had noticed earlier, that wherever the Cowboys played, you saw people in the stands with Cowboys jerseys and hats and pennants. Plus, they were always the national game on television. If you think back, there has always been one team in each sport that has support from fans nationwide: the Yankees in baseball, Notre Dame in college football, the Boston Celtics in pro basketball. They are all America's teams. So I put that name on the Cowboys' film, and in 1979 the TV announcer for their first game introduced the Cowboys as 'America's Team.'
They took a lot of heat for it, but it stuck. Later other clubs like the Atlanta Braves and the U.S. Olympic hockey team have tried to call themselves 'America's Team.' But that name belongs to the Cowboys."

Bob Ryan, Vice President and editor-in-chief, NFL Films
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Old 03-29-2007, 09:22 AM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
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This topic has really turned into a good discussion. Lots of good posts from people. Its good to see more people have a better appreciation of the history of the game. You can't go forward without understanding how you got there.

Its even important to study the evolution of the Xs and Os of the game. Its really cool if you go back and study it, thats one of my favorite things to do when watching football.

Someone mentioned Cleveland's dominance, and I couldn't agree more. During the Paul Brown years, Cleveland was unstoppable. So many people forget how storied of a franchise Cleveland is. While theyve been unsuccessful as a whole during the SB era, theyre dominance before that should not be ignored.
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Old 03-29-2007, 10:55 AM    (permalink
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If you were asking who the best franchise is in the present day NFL I would say the NE Patriots are, but in the best I'd probably say the 49ers are or the Cowboys are based on all their Super Bowl wins and playoff appreanaces.
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