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Old 05-05-2011, 11:13 PM    (permalink
HEISMANHERSCHEL
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I like how you guys are going crazy with the Madden-style roster management and we don't even have a clue if pro-football gets played this fall. Dallas drafted like a team with no needs, Newman is still overpaid even if moved to safety, we aren't going to trade for anyone, Asomugha is a pipe dream without MAJOR cap manipulation. With Roy, Barber, Davis, Newman, Brooking, Colombo, others all on chopping block who knows how much of that goes against out cap this year.
Could you explain how Dallas drafted like a team with no needs? I would say their drafted admitted they had needs, and they tried to address some of them. For example.

1. Tyron Smith-I think everyone knew OL was a need.

2. Bruce Carter-Contrary to what some say, he did not just play MLB in college. He played OLB also. I think upgrading Spencer is a need, and maybe they looked at him as possible help with that.

3 Demarco Murray-Upgrading Barber is a need, and Choice didn't exactly set the world on fire last year. Probably the OL's fault in Choice's case, but see #1. Either way you slice it, there was a need among one of these spots and they hit both.

4. David Arkin-Once again, trying to fix a line that allowed the #1 QB's season to prematurely end.

5. Josh Thomas-DB is a well documented need on every page of this thread.

6. Bill Nagy-OL competition. A need.

I will give you the Harris and Chapas picks. I would agree they were not needed players and would not have picked them. However, some on this forum say that WR was a need.


I do not want to start a war with you, and I do mean this in all respect. Can you explain to me how they did not draft for need? If they traded up for or even sat where they were at and drafted a QB or a TE, I would totally agree with you. I would say they addressed needs in this draft. Not all of them for sure, but it's not like they drafted prospect players at positions of strength.
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Old 05-06-2011, 12:27 AM    (permalink
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Could you explain how Dallas drafted like a team with no needs? I would say their drafted admitted they had needs, and they tried to address some of them. For example.

1. Tyron Smith-I think everyone knew OL was a need.

2. Bruce Carter-Contrary to what some say, he did not just play MLB in college. He played OLB also. I think upgrading Spencer is a need, and maybe they looked at him as possible help with that.

3 Demarco Murray-Upgrading Barber is a need, and Choice didn't exactly set the world on fire last year. Probably the OL's fault in Choice's case, but see #1. Either way you slice it, there was a need among one of these spots and they hit both.

4. David Arkin-Once again, trying to fix a line that allowed the #1 QB's season to prematurely end.

5. Josh Thomas-DB is a well documented need on every page of this thread.

6. Bill Nagy-OL competition. A need.

I will give you the Harris and Chapas picks. I would agree they were not needed players and would not have picked them. However, some on this forum say that WR was a need.


I do not want to start a war with you, and I do mean this in all respect. Can you explain to me how they did not draft for need? If they traded up for or even sat where they were at and drafted a QB or a TE, I would totally agree with you. I would say they addressed needs in this draft. Not all of them for sure, but it's not like they drafted prospect players at positions of strength.
OT - Bigger need than safety? Bigger need than DE?
Bruce Carter - Is he going to play safety or DE? You undermine his "need" when you start talking about having him replace Spencer. Why is OLB such a huge need all of a sudden? It's MLB or this is an even worse pick than I was giving it credit for.
Murray - We don't run the ball enough as is with 3 excessively talented guys, why not add an injury prone overrated guy in the mix as well. BUT HEY, HE'S A GARRETT GUY.
Arkin - No beef with this except for the value. Seems like a reach.
Josh Thomas - Favorite pick of the draft.
Wide receiver - REALLY?
Chapas -HE'S A GARRETT GUY.
Bill Nagy - TE/G/C guy with good versatility, will be shocked if he makes final 53.

So we entered the draft with holes at safety and defensive end, and weaknesses at OL and CB. We took no safeties, no defensive ends, and one corner (in the 5th). Jason Garrett is an offensive mastermind (as long as he can keep drafting offensive players over and over).
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Old 05-06-2011, 01:11 AM    (permalink
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I don't get what you guys wanted on draft day. If you want to say we missed the ball on anything I guess you could say we should have addressed DL. We did give up a 2011 pick for Brent tho.

That said do you know how many DL were taken in the second round? 3...want names

Jenkins, Jarvis
Austin, Marvin
Paea, Stephen

All three of those guys have concerns. Personally I love Marvin Austin and would have drafted him...but I don't get to sit in the room with the kid. Butch Davis talked about how great a person Carter was...and at the end of the day...DL didn't have any value in the 2nd round.

No thanks on Rahim Moore...being the best in a worst class is like being the smartest kid with down syndrome. Bruce Carter is the far superior football player with the higher ceiling...is anyone really upset that we drafted the better football player?

You thinking OL talent we missed out on maybe?

Franklin, Orlando
Wisniewski, Stefen
Ijalana, Ben
Gilbert, Marcus

Woah...those are not names I was targetting. I like Wisniewski...but I don't think I like him over Carter. Plus does anyone really see Gurode losing his spot in the next 2 years?

The only spot I think I could hear a legitimate argument would be passing on
Moffitt, John or
Rackley, William
for
Arkin, David.

They had Rackley and Arkin in for a visit. And while I don't necessarily think they had Arkin over Rackley...I do think they thought Arkin had better value in the 4th than rackley did in the 3rd.

Lets look at it like this...all 3 guys that I mentioned above probably aren't day 1 starters. Arkin has the highest upside of the 3 and this year is essentially a redshirt for any of these guys.

Factor that in with Murray likely making a difference in 2011 you can see why they went each direction. It's easy to go back after and say we should have done this or we should have done that. But lets remember NFL teams aren't using Scott Wrights rankings...so just because he has someone as the #5 safety doesn't mean he's the #5 for every team. I think we draftniks go in to grade a draft..they do it assigning value with charts they are familiar with. While charts you find on the internet can be pretty accurate for the first round...you'd be hard pressed to find something that gives you that accuracy outside of the first round.
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Old 05-06-2011, 01:50 AM    (permalink
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I really only have/had a beef with the Bruce Carter pick. I am still VERY skeptical of it. If he pans out, then okay. Big IF imo. Plus, I love next year's ILB class a TON!

After Round 2, no talent out there was really left to beef about. We weren't gonna fill any starting position at DL or DB from round 3 on. ...and I've grown to like the Murray pick a lot.
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Old 05-06-2011, 03:00 PM    (permalink
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I really only have/had a beef with the Bruce Carter pick. I am still VERY skeptical of it. If he pans out, then okay. Big IF imo. Plus, I love next year's ILB class a TON!

After Round 2, no talent out there was really left to beef about. We weren't gonna fill any starting position at DL or DB from round 3 on. ...and I've grown to like the Murray pick a lot.
Atta boy! ;)
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Old 05-06-2011, 03:03 PM    (permalink
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I really like Murray as a player...but I'd still like the pick more, if we are planning to move foward with him and Felix as the main duo. And plan on parting ways with Barber, but Choice too. A lot of people seem to think this is the plan. We'll see.
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Old 05-06-2011, 03:17 PM    (permalink
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I really like Murray as a player...but I'd still like the pick more, if we are planning to move foward with him and Felix as the main duo. And plan on parting ways with Barber, but Choice too. A lot of people seem to think this is the plan. We'll see.
The only way I come out of being happy with losing Choice is if we got equal compensation in a trade. He's a damn good back. But I just don't see anyone who would give up a lot for him.
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Old 05-06-2011, 04:02 PM    (permalink
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After watching some more highlights of Tyron Smith I think he will be big in our screen game. I know Garrett Loves to run the screen and with an athletic guy like Smith it should work a lot better than it has in the past.
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Old 05-06-2011, 06:10 PM    (permalink
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After watching some more highlights of Tyron Smith I think he will be big in our screen game. I know Garrett Loves to run the screen and with an athletic guy like Smith it should work a lot better than it has in the past.
Honestly, don't remember Garrett being too big on screens... I could be wrong, but I remember yelling at the TV to run a screen on more than 1 occassion. But yea, it's obvious... Tyron is a hoss.
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Old 05-06-2011, 06:30 PM    (permalink
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Random...but if we cut ties with Roy and let Sam go. James Jones is at the top of my list of potential WR additions. Would be a great fit with Jimmy Robinson in place. He really helped a lot in his development. Granted, he could never get him to perform consistently, though.

I still think it's more likely that we retain Roy, which sucks. And Sam is as good as gone. He wants a larger role, and they wont want to pay him a fair amount, just to be a special teams ace/captain. But if we go fishing for a wideout for whatever reason...James Jones.
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Old 05-06-2011, 06:43 PM    (permalink
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Random...but if we cut ties with Roy and let Sam go. James Jones is at the top of my list of potential WR additions. Would be a great fit with Jimmy Robinson in place. He really helped a lot in his development. Granted, he could never get him to perform consistently, though.

I still think it's more likely that we retain Roy, which sucks. And Sam is as good as gone. He wants a larger role, and they wont want to pay him a fair amount, just to be a special teams ace/captain. But if we go fishing for a wideout for whatever reason...James Jones.
Nah, no interest from me. Would rather see the triple headed monster of Miles Austin, Dez Bryant and Dwayne Harris.

Plus our money has to be used better elsewhere.

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Old 05-08-2011, 12:14 AM    (permalink
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Random...but if we cut ties with Roy and let Sam go. James Jones is at the top of my list of potential WR additions. Would be a great fit with Jimmy Robinson in place. He really helped a lot in his development. Granted, he could never get him to perform consistently, though.

I still think it's more likely that we retain Roy, which sucks. And Sam is as good as gone. He wants a larger role, and they wont want to pay him a fair amount, just to be a special teams ace/captain. But if we go fishing for a wideout for whatever reason...James Jones.
Ok, this makes sense. And I hate to say it because I have met Sam Hurd on a couple of occasions. He is a really cool, down to earth guy.

But it honestly never occurred to me that James Jones could be brought in. He is a nice piece of the puzzle. I would take him in a heartbeat over Roy.

A really good point that I had not even thought about.
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Old 05-08-2011, 12:31 AM    (permalink
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Nah, no interest from me. Would rather see the triple headed monster of Miles Austin, Dez Bryant and Dwayne Harris.

Plus our money has to be used better elsewhere.
Triple headed monster? Where is the third head? Surely you jest. Cause I know you aren't talking about the 6th round WR we drafted that was a star as ECU!

And when I say "star" I mean the go to guy at ECU. I am not sure he was a star in college.

IMO there is no way that Dwayne Harris could possibly be expected to be better than James Jones. At least not any time soon. And I am not sure that James Jones will get a king's ransom.
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Old 05-08-2011, 05:06 AM    (permalink
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Triple headed monster? Where is the third head? Surely you jest. Cause I know you aren't talking about the 6th round WR we drafted that was a star as ECU!

And when I say "star" I mean the go to guy at ECU. I am not sure he was a star in college.

IMO there is no way that Dwayne Harris could possibly be expected to be better than James Jones. At least not any time soon. And I am not sure that James Jones will get a king's ransom.
Harris in the slot has the makings of a real gem. I don't care about draft slot. Crayton was a 7th and Austin was undrafted.

Spending the money that James Jones wants to collect in FA is just the type of move that would make Jerry a clown to the rest of the league again. Our deficiencies in other areas are severely lacking. Wasting our resources on a top FA WR is simply irresponsible management. It's a joke of an idea. So what if he's better than Roy? Jones is gonna want a place to start. Who's he gonna start over if he's here? Doesn't make sense to me unless we got rid of Austin, and that's dumber than dumb.
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Old 05-08-2011, 11:52 AM    (permalink
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Spending the money that James Jones wants to collect in FA is just the type of move that would make Jerry a clown to the rest of the league again. Our deficiencies in other areas are severely lacking. Wasting our resources on a top FA WR is simply irresponsible management. It's a joke of an idea. So what if he's better than Roy? Jones is gonna want a place to start. Who's he gonna start over if he's here? Doesn't make sense to me unless we got rid of Austin, and that's dumber than dumb.



Yes, yes, and yes. I like James Jones, very solid player, but he won't be cheap by any stretch of the imagination. He could go to a bunch of teams and be 1 of the top 2 WR's. Why would we even think about adding another WR when we need 2 Guards and 2 Safeties plus another CB possibly. It'd be a huge waste of money and make no sense. Has nothing to do with my feelings for him as a player.


We have our 2 stud WR's on the outside, we have a guy who can be our better version of Patrick Crayton and work the middle of the field, we still have Witten. Roy isn't gonna play much himself whether he is here or not.
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Old 05-08-2011, 02:05 PM    (permalink
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As I said before, it only makes sense if you plan on cutting Roy, which I still dont think we'll do. But handing the #3 job to Oggs or Harris isnt the greatest idea, either. Oggs has been a product of the hype machine and Harris was a 6th rounder, with questional ball handling skills. A slot role is a pretty substantial role, I really doubt we'd put those duties on a 6th rounder.

In a perfect world...we cut Roy and just re-sign Hurd, while grooming Harris as well. But I really dont see Sam coming back.
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Old 05-08-2011, 06:56 PM    (permalink
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To be honest, I think that an extra receiver just takes more balls away from the other playmakers on the team. Dallas is loaded with playmakers already in Witten, Miles, Felix, and Dez. If Choice sticks around he's always been really good with his time, and Murray is a legitimate big play guy. I didn't want the guy because I don't think they needed him, but he's really good at finding open field. No need to bring in another receiver with a big contract. Just get the ball to Mr. Reliable, Big Play Austin, and Superstar Dez. Throw in some screens with Felix and Murray, and that's enough. Right now the only thing offense needs is OL help. You've got plenty of options in the run and pass game.
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Old 05-08-2011, 11:04 PM    (permalink
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I guess I should wait to see Harris in a boy's uniform before I say he can't make it as a good slot receiver. But I will have to see it before I believe it.

I would be surprised if James Jones goes anywhere and becomes a #1 receiver. Don't get me wrong, I know he is a good player. I guess I didn't realize that he was going to command so much on the open market when I said what I said, and I had no idea he was expected to be such a prized commodity. I was thinking that his 500 yds/3 td's a year (average) would not put him in the elite class of free agents.

As for the comment that E-man made about OL being the first thing to fix on the offense, I think that is spot on.
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Old 05-09-2011, 01:59 AM    (permalink
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I know he's just a 6th rounder, but Harris is in a unique situation where he is greatly benefited by a super strong supporting cast. A good QB, great receivers all around and a RB unit that attracts a lot of attention. We're not asking him to put up mind boggling stats. Just help move the chains, and I think he has that kind of capability.
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Old 05-09-2011, 09:08 AM    (permalink
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Honestly, don't remember Garrett being too big on screens... I could be wrong, but I remember yelling at the TV to run a screen on more than 1 occassion. But yea, it's obvious... Tyron is a hoss.
I think this was more a product of the fact that he didn't have the OL to run screens. I think as this OL gets younger and more athletic, we will seem more creativity.
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Old 05-09-2011, 05:18 PM    (permalink
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One thing I want to randomly mention is that Demarco Murray was very much like Jamaal Charles in college. Neither guy is the type to make a lot of jukes in the backfield, but they have good speed and one cut ability. I remember thinking of Murray as a guy with better vision than Charles, but Jamaal had the better speed. I think he ends up being a huge steal. It sucks for my boy Choice, but Murray is a really really good player that only fell to the third because of how running backs are viewed nowadays. Him, Leshoure, and Daniel Thomas would be first rounders if tailback wasn't a position of committee these days.
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Old 05-27-2011, 02:08 PM    (permalink
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Man this offseason is boring! Stupid lockout. At least the Mavs are in the finals. I just hope they don't get screwed again like in 06. Anyway, I thought it was funny that Dez has been at every team workout except one, and that time he was missing there was some press wondering where he was and if he was becoming a headache. I'll admit too, I didn't like him missing the first workout after missing that meeting with Jerry, but he's been at every workout now and no one says **** because it's positive. I'm glad he's getting time to work with Romo. It's not perfect with the lockout going, but it's something.
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Old 05-27-2011, 03:19 PM    (permalink
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I know he's just a 6th rounder, but Harris is in a unique situation where he is greatly benefited by a super strong supporting cast. A good QB, great receivers all around and a RB unit that attracts a lot of attention. We're not asking him to put up mind boggling stats. Just help move the chains, and I think he has that kind of capability.
It's funny how we have a different outlook. I think the great receivers all around him contributes to him not making the team. Or if he makes the team, not seeing the field much.

Unless we get rid of a few, I just can't see him doing much. Only one guy at a time can run with the ball. I see too many people on this team that I would rather have the ball over Harris.
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Old 05-27-2011, 04:43 PM    (permalink
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I think he's a lock to make the team.

The only receivers really set in stone are Miles, Dez, and Roy. Oggs has been horribly sporadic and he's not a coach favorite, anymore. Sam is as good as gone. And then we have a bunch of special teams guys vying for a spot or two.

If we keep five...it's Miles, Dez, Roy, Oggs, and Harris.

We keep 6, tack on one of the ST guys...ala Manny Johnson or Holley.

Harris may not see the field much at all, sure...our 4th and 5th guys rarely do, but he's still making the team. And may be able to be an impactful player down the line.
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Old 05-27-2011, 06:23 PM    (permalink
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...and I don't think Roy is part of the big picture either.

Eventually our Big 3 could be Dez, Austin with Harris in the slot. He just has to make it happen. No one is really in the way, but he has a nice comfy spot to help ease his transition/development. There's not going to be a lot on his shoulders with the good supporting cast expected to carry the blunt of it. Pressure free situation.. well... as much as you could hope for in the NFL that is.
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