2011 NBA Draft Thread - Page 25

proshoota25 · 05-20-2011, 02:19 PM

all indications from what i have read is that rubio will be coming over next year.... they will be a fun team to watch at the very least

SeanTaylorRIP · 05-20-2011, 02:31 PM

Yeah D they would be a good trade for the Wolves especially if they plan on drafting Williams or Vesely. However not sure why the Magic would want him. Already have a bunch of undersized 4's in Bass, Anderson, and Turk. Beasley doesn't really bring you anything in the way of rebounding or defense. As for Rubio he simply isn't that good. He still has the age and potential thing going for him but right now as a 20 year old he isn't even in the same discussion as a guy like Jose Calderon. I really question how his game translates and the fact that he's not that good. Although obviously I have some bias having always been a Rubio hater and never drinking the cool aid.

D-Unit · 05-20-2011, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by proshoota25

all indications from what i have read is that rubio will be coming over next year.... they will be a fun team to watch at the very least

Another thing I was thinking... Since Rubio and Fran Vazquez are teammates, I wonder if Orlando gave up Jameer Nelson and the rights to Fran for Beasley, if the Wolves would be even more interested?

If Rubio and Vazquez could ensure being teammates in the NBA, I think they would both come, no questions asked.

Oppositely, I wonder if the Magic would be interested in trading for Rubio for the exact same reason.

D-Unit · 05-20-2011, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeanTaylorRIP

Yeah D they would be a good trade for the Wolves especially if they plan on drafting Williams or Vesely. However not sure why the Magic would want him. Already have a bunch of undersized 4's in Bass, Anderson, and Turk. Beasley doesn't really bring you anything in the way of rebounding or defense. As for Rubio he simply isn't that good. He still has the age and potential thing going for him but right now as a 20 year old he isn't even in the same discussion as a guy like Jose Calderon. I really question how his game translates and the fact that he's not that good. Although obviously I have some bias having always been a Rubio hater and never drinking the cool aid.

Personally, I think Beasley has transformed his game successfully. He came into the league as an undersized PF, but he's now developed the skills to play SF imo. I like his ability to shoot or drive. His handle is more than adequate. His rebounding is not bad by any means. He had many good rebounding games last season playing next to the NBA leader in rebounds (Love). I like his finishing ability and youthfulness. Something the Magic lack at SF. I can see how you question him defensively in the post, but on the wing, I think his length alone would benefit him more. But yeah... that's why.

I don't think the Magic will ever be able to add CP3 or DWill to Dwight. The next best thing is trying to add core contributors who are still young and could be apart of keeping them competitive for a long time. I see that in Beasley.

proshoota25 · 05-20-2011, 03:00 PM

i think you guys are underrating rubio a bit..... any guy who can put up good numbers for a few games against our OLYMPIC team is very good..... considering they are the best of the best in the NBA and the world for that matter

SeanTaylorRIP · 05-20-2011, 03:09 PM

Combine measurements that stood out to me:

Nikola Vucevic: Tallest player measured in at just about 7 foot with shoes. 260 pounds and 7-4” winspan also are big numbers. With his skill set definitely in late first consideration now. His foot speed and lack of athleticism though are extremely limiting.

Keith Benson: 217 pounds is extremely disappointing for him. He’s extremely frail for a guy who’s skill set and height should make him a defensive center. Mid-late 2nd at this point.

Enes Kanter: Ideal measurables. 6-11”, 259 pounds, 7-1” wingspan, 5.9 % body fat. Even more important has some of the biggest hands in the draft. His measurements make him a more viable candidate to be a center as well. Many had him pegged simply as a PF.

Jeremy Tyler: Overall pretty impressive. 6-10” 262 pounds massive 7-5” wingspan. 13.4% body fat is somewhat troubling but he carries his weight well and could probably slim down a little. Looking more and more like a late first in this draft even after the disastrous Israel stint.

Greg Smith: Absolute physical specimen. 6-10” 251 pounds, 7-3” wing span, 6.4 % body fat. With good workouts he can trick a team into taking him in the first. Most important for him though is that he measured at legit center size.

Chris Singleton: 6-9”, 7-1” wing span. Has the tools to be an elite defender.

Jordan Williams: 6-9” is an extremely good height for him. The 12% body fat is good as you can see he has leaned down big time. 247 is a good playing weight for him.

Markieff Morris: 6-9” is taller than I expected very good height. Again though as expected an under 7 foot wing span and small hands.

Tristan Thompson: 6-9”, 7-1” wingspan are very solid numbers. Some thought he would measure in a lot shorter and have to play SF but I thought that was ludicrous. Could shock and go in the top 5. Comparable prospect to Ed Davis.

Derrick Willliams: almost 6-9” 248 pounds, 7-1” wingspan. I love those numbers from him but he keeps saying he is a SF which I disagree with. IMO he’s a stretch 4 and needs to embrace that.

Marcus Morris: 6-8” which is much better than I thought. Like his brother not a great wingspan or hand size. He’s a SF though so perfect measurements

Jamie Skeen: 6-8” 242 pounds, 7-1” wingspan is very good for him. Could be an early 2nd rounder in the Udonis Haslem mold.

Kawhi Leonard: 7-3” wingspan, pretty much a top 10 lock, #6 to the Wizards appears to be a very possible destination.

Klay Thompson: 6-7” helps his case even more. Late lottery pick likely. Has looked nice in drills.

Marshon Brooks: 6-5” and as expected freakish 7-1” wingspan. Mid-late first rounder.

Kyrie Irving: 6-3”, T-rex wingspan, a bit chubby.

Nolan Smith: 6-5” wingspan always thought he had longer arms.

Jimmer: 6-2” short wing span.
Kemba Walker: 6-1” in shoes, pretty much what I expected.

SeanTaylorRIP · 05-20-2011, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by proshoota25

i think you guys are underrating rubio a bit..... any guy who can put up good numbers for a few games against our OLYMPIC team is very good..... considering they are the best of the best in the NBA and the world for that matter

Carlos Arroyo put up 25+7 vs Team USA and beat them. Team USA doesn't play defense. I put a lot more stock in Rubio's professional games.

proshoota25 · 05-20-2011, 03:15 PM

good points. but carlos was the ONLY good person on his team. Rubio has legit talent around him, and didnt need to take a million shots to get his 25 points..... either way hes being underrated on this board in my opinion.

M.O.T.H. · 05-20-2011, 03:18 PM

I dont see this helping Orlando...dumping Nelson in favor of Arenas, is not going to happen. And they really want Fran in an Orlando uniform, because they have a severe lack of bigs, and Fran can play quality minutes right now.

I think there are only two ways Nelson gets moved.

1. In some kind of rip off deal involving a Super Star (i.e. Paul) or something close to a super star...and preferably at the PG position. Arenas can not be depended on at all.

2. Howard is traded. Without Howard, Orlando may be inclined to go into rebuild mode right away, so moving Nelson would certainly be a plausibility.

Nelson is viewed as a cornerstone of this team still. I find it pretty hard to envision him getting moved, unless it involves one of the two scenarios.

As for Beasley himself...I like his game. But he's still a pretty immature ass hole. Maybe not the best player to team with Arenas.

sbh15 · 05-20-2011, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by proshoota25

good points. but carlos was the ONLY good person on his team. Rubio has legit talent around him, and didnt need to take a million shots to get his 25 points..... either way hes being underrated on this board in my opinion.

no he's being overrated because he ******* sucks

D-Unit · 05-20-2011, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M.O.T.H.

I dont see this helping Orlando...dumping Nelson in favor of Arenas, is not going to happen. And they really want Fran in an Orlando uniform, because they have a severe lack of bigs, and Fran can play quality minutes right now.

I think there are only two ways Nelson gets moved.

1. In some kind of rip off deal involving a Super Star (i.e. Paul) or something close to a super star...and preferably at the PG position. Arenas can not be depended on at all.

2. Howard is traded. Without Howard, Orlando may be inclined to go into rebuild mode right away, so moving Nelson would certainly be a plausibility.

Nelson is viewed as a cornerstone of this team still. I find it pretty hard to envision him getting moved, unless it involves one of the two scenarios.

As for Beasley himself...I like his game. But he's still a pretty immature ass hole. Maybe not the best player to team with Arenas.

Well if we're talking reality, then the odds of any trade proposed on this or any forum are extremely low. It's more about fun idea discussion.

That said, I think Jameer's trade value is pretty low, and I don't think he and Arenas co-exist very well. Both demand the ball to be effective.

I don't see your 2 points being very valid at all. For one, we're not getting a rip off deal for Chris Paul and 2... well, I think we trade Nelson before we trade Howard. ...but I guess 2 could happen the way you see it.

I do see Nelson being traded if it helps improve the team or helps us acquire expiring contracts though.

As for Beasley's personality... it's fine. Same is said of Dez Bryant. All I care about is his game. ...and you said yourself that you like it. I mean, it's factor but not a decision killer. Probably part of the reason why he would be on the block.

M.O.T.H. · 05-20-2011, 04:17 PM

You dont trade a quality PG, unless you have one to replace him with. This would be a step in the wrong direction.

You cant just disregard a player's attitude. Hell, Arenas and Crittenton may have killed eachother if things escalated any further. Beasley has so many red flags, it's ridiculous.

Both my points are vaild...I dont think Orlando could get a super star either. It was just a scenario in which he gets moved. And it's an unlikely one, which strengthens the fact that he probably wont be moved in the first place.

edit...dont get me wrong, I would take Beasley. But we have nothing to replace Jameer with. Like I said, this doesnt make the team better at all. I'd actually like the move, if we lost Howard first, and we were planning to rebuild.

D-Unit · 05-20-2011, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M.O.T.H.

You dont trade a quality PG, unless you have one to replace him with. This would be a step in the wrong direction.

You cant just disregard a player's attitude. Hell, Arenas and Crittenton may have killed eachother if things escalated any further. Beasley has so many red flags, it's ridiculous.

Both my points are vaild...I dont think Orlando could get a super star either. It was just a scenario in which he gets moved. And it's an unlikely one, which strengthens the fact that he probably wont be moved in the first place.

edit...dont get me wrong, I would take Beasley. But we have nothing to replace Jameer with. Like I said, this doesnt make the team better at all. I'd actually like the move, if we lost Howard first, and we were planning to rebuild.

Arenas could easily replace Nelson. I don't see the panic button needing to be pressed. There are also other ways like the MLE, TPE or other trades. I have other thoughts, but wanted to see if a Nelson for Beasley trade was acceptable, and I got the answer I was hoping for.

As for personality clashes... what's to say they wouldn't be even closer friends? You've got it all wrong. With Otis here, Arenas will be kept in check. You're acting like he's a bomb waiting to explode.

M.O.T.H. · 05-20-2011, 08:26 PM

Arenas is a class A moron...NBA teams with a bunch of questionable character guys always run into problems.

But anyway, you're alone in your Arenas optimism. For the minutes he played, he was seriously one of the worst players in the league this year. Garbage. Trading Jameer, so you can start Arenas shouldnt even be considered a gamble, more so just stupidity. He is awful.

I know you're anxious to get rid of Nelson, but Arenas is not the answer.

yo123 · 05-20-2011, 08:28 PM

D didn't you want to get rid of Nelson because he's too much of a scorer and not enough of a pure point? How does Arenas make that better?

SeanTaylorRIP · 05-20-2011, 10:21 PM

Here is my latest mock, I keep it updated:
http://www.nbadraft.net/nba_mock_drafts/9188

BTW I was thinking of a trade, with the assumption that Kyrie goes #1, Williams goes #2 to whoever is picking there, and Vesely or Knight go #3, if Kanter is there at #4 I think the Wizards should deal #6 and Andray Blatche for #4 and Daniel Gibson. For the Wizards Blatche just doesn't gel well with Wall's style. His slow methodical style doesn't work with the flow of the offense. The Wizards need a banger to complement Mcgee and that would be Kanter. Wall has stated he wants Kanter, Kanter said today Washington is his dream destination. For the Cavs they need production. Blatche is still a solid #3 option. A 16+7 lock. Doing this trade would give them an offensive big man to complement Varejao but would also allow them to fill their biggest whole of SG+SF with a Kawhi Leonard, Alec Burks, or Marcus Morris. So instead of getting Kyrie+Kanter, they would get Kyrie+Blatche+Leonard. Jonas could even still be there at 6 if Toronto didn't take him.

D-Unit · 05-20-2011, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yo123

D didn't you want to get rid of Nelson because he's too much of a scorer and not enough of a pure point? How does Arenas make that better?

That's just one reason. Add in his weak ass defense, inability to distribute the ball effectively and a lame ass floor general. At least Arenas is a much better in those areas of the game.

D-Unit · 05-20-2011, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M.O.T.H.

Arenas is a class A moron...NBA teams with a bunch of questionable character guys always run into problems.

But anyway, you're alone in your Arenas optimism. For the minutes he played, he was seriously one of the worst players in the league this year. Garbage. Trading Jameer, so you can start Arenas shouldnt even be considered a gamble, more so just stupidity. He is awful.

I know you're anxious to get rid of Nelson, but Arenas is not the answer.

Hellloooo.... We're stuck with Arenas. He may not be the answer, but at least Jameer is a tradeable asset. My optimism is more like desperate hope than optimism.

SeanTaylorRIP · 05-20-2011, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D-Unit

Hellloooo.... We're stuck with Arenas. He may not be the answer, but at least Jameer is a tradeable asset. My optimism is more like desperate hope than optimism.

That's what I struggled with last year. Damn imagine if the Wizards took Turner because they figured they would never get rid of Arenas. I do agree with you though because Jameer is a tradable asset if you can get decent compensation for him do it, although trading Jameer is sealing that Dwight won't resign.

fenikz · 05-20-2011, 10:56 PM

someone should run a forum mock wink wink

WMD · 05-20-2011, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeanTaylorRIP

Here is my latest mock, I keep it updated:
http://www.nbadraft.net/nba_mock_drafts/9188

Interesting.. I don't know about Biyombo though. I think I'd pass on him.

If that scenario played out, I'd probably just say **** it and pick Chris Singleton.

WMD · 05-20-2011, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenikz

someone should run a forum mock wink wink

kiss kiss ;)

D-Unit · 05-20-2011, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WMD

kiss kiss ;)

Anybody wanna boom boom? :)

http://draftcountdown.com/forum/show...52#post2603952

SeanTaylorRIP · 05-20-2011, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WMD

Interesting.. I don't know about Biyombo though. I think I'd pass on him.

If that scenario played out, I'd probably just say **** it and pick Chris Singleton.

The comparison is thrown around because they are both from Congo, played in Spain, blew up at the hoops summit but Ibaka is a pretty good comparison for Biyombo. At the highest level in the ACB last year Biyombo was already a huge impact player. Massive wingspan, great shot blocker, great athlete, intense rebounder. He's just as raw as Ibaka offensively though maybe even more although his jump shot has decent form and he has a decent handle. I think he'd be a great complement to Monroe just as I had Faried mocked to you a few months back before I began to realize just how short he was. If the Pistons do end up with Biyombo would be interesting to see how he reacts to probably being given Ben Wallace expectations.

Bosanac01 · 05-21-2011, 01:21 AM

STRIP you work for nbadraft.net?

anyway I'm excited to finally see Chris Singleton in the NBA. I remember watching him dominate in high school, guy was a beast.