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Old 07-27-2011, 03:31 PM    (permalink
bullg8rdaddy
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Default Quincy Black staying

LB Quincy Black stays in Tampa 5yrs, $29M, $11.5M guaranted.

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Old 07-27-2011, 05:48 PM    (permalink
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At $6 mil a year, you have to wonder if Black will be making a transition to MLB. I'm thinking the Bucs want to get him on the field full-time.
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Old 07-27-2011, 08:29 PM    (permalink
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Not surprising at all. Black is a beast so the more we see of him in Tampa, the better.
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Old 07-27-2011, 09:37 PM    (permalink
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Black has the speed and physicality to play WLB as well. He can play all 3 LB positions in our defense. Wouldn't surprise me if we look to get Watson some playing time as well, or Mason at SLB and McKenzie in the MlB.

It will all play out eventually.
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Old 07-28-2011, 12:20 AM    (permalink
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Yeah to be honest, I think Black is the only guaranteed starter at the moment. He could easily start at either OLB position, or possibly even MLB. And the other positions could easily be filled by Hayes, Watson, McKenzie and Foster.
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Old 07-28-2011, 08:03 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Caddy View Post
Yeah to be honest, I think Black is the only guaranteed starter at the moment. He could easily start at either OLB position, or possibly even MLB. And the other positions could easily be filled by Hayes, Watson, McKenzie and Foster.
Well, Dominik made it clear he expects Mason Foster to be the starting MLB.

Right now, its:

WLB: Geno Hayes
MLB: Mason Foster/McKenzie
SLB: Black/Watson

Honestly, I'd love for it to be:

WLB: Quincy Black
MLB: Mason Foster/McKenzie
SLB: Watson

When Black went down, Watson filled in nicely and played extremely well in his absence. Hayes has still shown inconsistency and is too small to shed blocks.
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Old 07-28-2011, 08:06 AM    (permalink
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Yeah to be honest, I think Black is the only guaranteed starter at the moment. He could easily start at either OLB position, or possibly even MLB. And the other positions could easily be filled by Hayes, Watson, McKenzie and Foster.
100% agree. Kiffin used to say about LBs in the T-2, "If a guy can play the Sam, he can play all three positions." And Black has proven he can play the Sam, putting up the best single season numbers for any Sam (despite breaking his arm and only playing 11 games) in the T-2's run in Tampa.

If you guys think back, when Urlacher was drafted by Chicago, he was originally slated/training to play the Sam. After an injury to somebody else, he was moved to Mike, and the rest, they say, is history. I truly believe that Black is NOT coming off the field in 2011. I can't imagine taking him off the field and leaving a more traditional, not-nearly-as-athletic MLB-type (McKenzie, Foster) on the field in passing situations. If tradition holds out, Foster would receive more reps at Sam than Mike anyways. And that would leave Black, as the most athletic most experienced player left. Which would enable us to keep our best and most athletic LB on the field full-time.

I have a sneaky suspicion that $6 mil per year is way too much to pay a Sam-LB-only. That sounds like the going rate for the new MLB. Think of it this way, Paul Posluzny just signed a 6 year deal worth $7 million a year. ANd he's a proven MLB.
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Old 07-28-2011, 08:08 AM    (permalink
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Well, Dominik made it clear he expects Mason Foster to be the starting MLB. Right now, its:

WLB: Geno Hayes
MLB: Mason Foster/McKenzie
SLB: Black/Watson

Honestly, I'd love for it to be:

WLB: Quincy Black
MLB: Mason Foster/McKenzie
SLB: Watson

When Black went down, Watson filled in nicely and played extremely well in his absence. Hayes has still shown inconsistency and is too small to shed blocks.
Could it have been a negotiating tool? Afterall, Foster's a 3rd round pick.

Your current depth chart says SLB: Black/Watson. I don't think you pay a guy $6 mil per to split reps.

I think the depth chart should be:

WLB: Hayes----
MLB: Black-----McKenzie
SLB: Watson---Foster

watson is tons more athletic than Foster, plus, for the time being he is more experienced and better familiar with the defense.
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Old 07-28-2011, 08:13 AM    (permalink
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Black has the speed and physicality to play WLB as well. He can play all 3 LB positions in our defense. Wouldn't surprise me if we look to get Watson some playing time as well, or Mason at SLB and McKenzie in the MlB.

It will all play out eventually.
See - injuries.

Foster is a much better player than Watson btw. It's only a matter of how long it takes from him to adjust to the pros. There have been plenty of excellent rookie LBs in the history of the league.
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Old 07-28-2011, 08:16 AM    (permalink
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Could it have been a negotiating tool? Afterall, Foster's a 3rd round pick.

Your current depth chart says SLB: Black/Watson. I don't think you pay a guy $6 mil per to split reps.

I think the depth chart should be:

WLB: Hayes----
MLB: Black-----McKenzie
SLB: Watson---Foster

watson is tons more athletic than Foster, plus, for the time being he is more experienced and better familiar with the defense.
Understandable and that very well may be the depth chart, but Foster I think is going to be our MLB. I can definately see Black playing WLB replacing Hayes, who is very inconsistant. Having Black-Foster-Watson gives our LB core 2 very athletic LBs on the outside who also bring a physical presence and good in coverage. Mason Foster brings a physical presence in the middle and can shed blocks and make plays. He may not be the most athletic out there, but he was drafted to replace Ruud in the middle.
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Old 07-28-2011, 08:18 AM    (permalink
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See - injuries.

Foster is a much better player than Watson btw. It's only a matter of how long it takes from him to adjust to the pros. There have been plenty of excellent rookie LBs in the history of the league.
Yes, but if you line them up side-by-side and rep-by-rep right now, Watson would blow him away simply because of his familiarity with the defense and his experience. Watson is our 2nd most athletic LB and with his comfortability with our D, he'd be more easily able to use that athleticism to easily outshine Foster for now. Foster may eventually be a starter, but for right now, it is a lot to ask. There's a reason he was a 3rd rounder and not an early 1st rounder. He could eventually be great, but for right now (I mean at this very second), he's probably the 4th or 5th best LB on our roster.
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Old 07-28-2011, 08:18 AM    (permalink
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Also, moving Black to the WLB will allow him the ability to stay on the field more and make more plays at that position. On 3rd downs, he'd be on the field instead of foster.

Remember, Derrick Brooks was not our MLB and he was on the field consistantly and made plays from the WLB. I don't necessary think Black needs to play MLB when he can play WLB.
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Old 07-28-2011, 08:20 AM    (permalink
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Understandable and that very well may be the depth chart, but Foster I think is going to be our MLB. I can definately see Black playing WLB replacing Hayes, who is very inconsistant. Having Black-Foster-Watson gives our LB core 2 very athletic LBs on the outside who also bring a physical presence and good in coverage. Mason Foster brings a physical presence in the middle and can shed blocks and make plays. He may not be the most athletic out there, but he was drafted to replace Ruud in the middle.
Yes, you're right, that's why he was drafted... but that doesn't necessarily mean he will be. Stepping in on 5 weeks notice and practice to be the starting Mike is a lot to ask, especially from a 3rd rounder (just ask another former 3rd rounder in Marquis Cooper who never started a game, or perhaps even appeared in a game as a LB for us).
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Old 07-28-2011, 08:22 AM    (permalink
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Also, moving Black to the WLB will allow him the ability to stay on the field more and make more plays at that position. On 3rd downs, he'd be on the field instead of foster.

Remember, Derrick Brooks was not our MLB and he was on the field consistantly and made plays from the WLB. I don't necessary think Black needs to play MLB when he can play WLB.
That's true about Brooks buuuuuuuuuuuut, only the MLB can have the radio-helmet communicator so whomever the MLB is, will not come off the field. Why would we let ourselves be put at that disadvantage when other teams keep their Mikes on the field?
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Old 07-28-2011, 08:22 AM    (permalink
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Black isn't very instinctive though. I want(ed) Foster at WLB because he diagnoses plays and gets himself into position to make a tackle, beating backs to their hole with his reads. There isn't a LB on the team that A) has instincts like Foster and B) tackles as well as Foster. He's designed to fill up the stat sheet like Ruud did, but his tackles will be a lot more impactful.
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Old 07-28-2011, 08:29 AM    (permalink
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Yes, you're right, that's why he was drafted... but that doesn't necessarily mean he will be. Stepping in on 5 weeks notice and practice to be the starting Mike is a lot to ask, especially from a 3rd rounder (just ask another former 3rd rounder in Marquis Cooper who never started a game, or perhaps even appeared in a game as a LB for us).
1st , I would not compare Cooper and Foster. Both totally completely different LBs.

I love Blacks athleticism and honestly, I think the coaching staff has realized that Geno Hayes has been inconsistant so there will be competition at the MLB and WLB positions. If they like what they see out of Foster and Watson in camp/preseason, then they have to keep their best 3 LBs on the field.

Honestly, I think Black/Foster/Watson is their best bet. Foster may be a rookie, but you are really underestimating him. He is very intelligent and is a leader, so commanding the defense isn't going to be a problem for him in the future (might as well start him now doing it.)

Many teams have had success with rookie MIKEs and some have compared him to Demeco Ryans, who in my opinion, is a very good MLB.

Foster brings a physical presence that Ruud never brought. He is built from the neck down, has more leg strengh and can shed blocks easily. He is ok in coverage and has the ability to get better. Many scouts believed we stole him and couldn't understand why the Saints took Martez Wilson over Foster.
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Old 07-28-2011, 08:30 AM    (permalink
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In Black's defense, he's been at Sam for the past two seasons where he can't exactly flex his instinct muscles. The T-2 is great for a variety of reasons, one of them being that the Mike is free to hit what he sees. He sees the handoff then he goes and tackles it. It is true there is tons of gap control, but once the play is in motion, it is about hitting what you see. Foster may have great instincts, but he's a rookie with no rookie camp or training camp. It's easy to annoint a guy as being great when you haven't see his flaws at the NFL level but it isn't realistic. Just like assuming we will have a pass rush because of the 2 DEs we drafted... neither have rushed the passer in the NFL.
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Old 07-28-2011, 08:30 AM    (permalink
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1st , I would not compare Cooper and Foster. Both totally completely different LBs.

I love Blacks athleticism and honestly, I think the coaching staff has realized that Geno Hayes has been inconsistant so there will be competition at the MLB and WLB positions. If they like what they see out of Foster and Watson in camp/preseason, then they have to keep their best 3 LBs on the field.

Honestly, I think Black/Foster/Watson is their best bet. Foster may be a rookie, but you are really underestimating him. He is very intelligent and is a leader, so commanding the defense isn't going to be a problem for him in the future (might as well start him now doing it.)

Many teams have had success with rookie MIKEs and some have compared him to Demeco Ryans, who in my opinion, is a very good MLB.

Foster brings a physical presence that Ruud never brought. He is built from the neck down, has more leg strengh and can shed blocks easily. He is ok in coverage and has the ability to get better. Many scouts believed we stole him and couldn't understand why the Saints took Martez Wilson over Foster.
Wilson sucks. Talk about lacking physicality...
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Old 07-28-2011, 08:32 AM    (permalink
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In Black's defense, he's been at Sam for the past two seasons where he can't exactly flex his instinct muscles. The T-2 is great for a variety of reasons, one of them being that the Mike is free to hit what he sees. He sees the handoff then he goes and tackles it. It is true there is tons of gap control, but once the play is in motion, it is about hitting what you see. Foster may have great instincts, but he's a rookie with no rookie camp or training camp. It's easy to annoint a guy as being great when you haven't see his flaws at the NFL level but it isn't realistic. Just like assuming we will have a pass rush because of the 2 DEs we drafted... neither have rushed the passer in the NFL.
I'm trying to be careful not to get ahead of myself and count my chickens before they hatch, but some of our picks are so impressive on tape, plus Dominik's track record...it's easy to have high expectations.

Now the pass rush, on the other hand, I'll believe it when I see it!
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Old 07-28-2011, 08:34 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bucfan12 View Post
1st , I would not compare Cooper and Foster. Both totally completely different LBs.

I love Blacks athleticism and honestly, I think the coaching staff has realized that Geno Hayes has been inconsistant so there will be competition at the MLB and WLB positions. If they like what they see out of Foster and Watson in camp/preseason, then they have to keep their best 3 LBs on the field.

Honestly, I think Black/Foster/Watson is their best bet. Foster may be a rookie, but you are really underestimating him. He is very intelligent and is a leader, so commanding the defense isn't going to be a problem for him in the future (might as well start him now doing it.)

Many teams have had success with rookie MIKEs and some have compared him to Demeco Ryans, who in my opinion, is a very good MLB.

Foster brings a physical presence that Ruud never brought. He is built from the neck down, has more leg strengh and can shed blocks easily. He is ok in coverage and has the ability to get better. Many scouts believed we stole him and couldn't understand why the Saints took Martez Wilson over Foster.
If I;m underestimating him, then so did the rest of the NFL for about 80 picks. I'm not saying he won't be good eventually, but like I said when I compared him (in draft position only!) to Marquis Cooper, teams saw enough flaws out of him that he was bypassed 80+ times. He's a 3rd round pick, He was very productive for a very bad UWashington team, though we should have high expectations from him, don't be surprised if it takes him a little while to show his mettle. As of right now, you have to put him behind Tyrone McKenzie-another 3rd round pick, who has more experience in the NFL and in our defense. I'm thinking plenty of people thought McKenzie was going to be starting for the Pats about right now.
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Old 07-28-2011, 08:36 AM    (permalink
brasho
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I'm trying to be careful not to get ahead of myself and count my chickens before they hatch, but some of our picks are so impressive on tape, plus Dominik's track record...it's easy to have high expectations.

Now the pass rush, on the other hand, I'll believe it when I see it!
Yes, Dominik has us all believing. If he picked up Vernon Gholston and said he was signed to be the starting Sam and he'd be great, I'd believe him.
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Old 07-28-2011, 08:40 AM    (permalink
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TC and Preseason will show everything and how it all will play out.
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