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Old 08-28-2011, 11:18 PM    (permalink
Ness
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Originally Posted by phlysac View Post
Granted this is only an example of three of his 8 drop backs... it's a micro-cosm.

He's hit in under 2 full seconds on two and less than 3 on the other. Even from the shotgun. It's always been said a QB needs to get rid of the ball in 4 seconds, not 2 or 3.


Snap at 1:20


Wrapped up at 1:22


Snap at 1:29


Wrapped up at 1:31


Snap at 2:16


Steps into a throw (No Pocket) Hit at 2:19


Here's the full highlight clip...

It's okay. I have the entire game in HD on my computer.. Regardless, using this doesn't really tell much. It goes beyond just seconds. Football gets down to nanoseconds. If you have a gif of each of his dropbacks it would be more helpful. Not sure what you are trying to prove though. I already acknowledged that the pocket isn't that great, but it doesn't change my opinion that Smith is an average to terrible quarterback. I felt this way before the preseason began, or rather before Harbaugh was hired. He's just not a good player. Doesn't matter what offense he's thrust into. His instincts and accuracy aren't very good compared to a lot of the better quarterbacks in this league. How many big games has he had in his seven year career? Even if we have a terrible offensive line you can believe that a change at quarterback wouldn't matter, but I'll take my chances with Luck if the 49ers had a shot to select him. I know you think it wouldn't possibly make a difference at all though. They'd be ******** not to pick him. The offensive line can be fixed through other means, quarterbacks that are considered the best prospect since Manning entered the league don't come by every year.
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Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.

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Old 08-28-2011, 11:41 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by phlysac View Post
Be specific...

He dropped back 8 times.

Hit 5 times (no pocket)
6. Ball deflected (pocket collapsed)
7. Hit Ginn on a slant
8. Rolled out and hit Morgan.

Now where did you see your examples, again?
By the way the pocket didn't "collapse" when Smith threw the ball that was batted at the LOS.

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Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.
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Old 08-28-2011, 11:43 PM    (permalink
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By the way not a fan of what Harbaugh was trying to do. The season opener is two weeks away. I thought Alex Smith was supposed to be the starter? Why did he want to get Kapernick some reps against the first string defense? Most of the starting positions should be practically wrapped up by this point. Especially if you want to build cohesion with your starting unit...I just get the logic in that. I agreed with Tim Ryan's criticism. You have to play your starters sooner or later for an extended period. This was a good opportunity to do just that.
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Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.

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Old 08-29-2011, 01:08 AM    (permalink
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By the way not a fan of what Harbaugh was trying to do. The season opener is two weeks away. I thought Alex Smith was supposed to be the starter? Why did he want to get Kapernick some reps against the first string defense? Most of the starting positions should be practically wrapped up by this point. Especially if you want to build cohesion with your starting unit...I just get the logic in that. I agreed with Tim Ryan's criticism. You have to play your starters sooner or later for an extended period. This was a good opportunity to do just that.
Lmao this may be one of the stupidest things i've ever read on the internet.

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Old 08-29-2011, 02:08 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Victory X View Post
Lmao this may be one of the stupidest things i've ever read on the internet.

And this is probably one of the dumbest responses.

Nice attempt to take something I said out of context and try to make a hit and run comment with it.
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Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.

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Old 08-29-2011, 02:31 AM    (permalink
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It's really demoralizing the amount of high draft picks that were put into this offensive line and it just sucks on all levels it seems. Too bad we couldn't keep Baas for center. Looks like we really downgraded. I'm starting to wonder if it's a coaching problem and/or just talent problem. Staley seems like he's been going downhill the last couple of seasons. He looked really promising in his rookie year. Anthony Davis seems like he shouldn't have been a first rounder at all. Iupati looks promising, but he's still blowing assignments. Rachal is awful period. I'm praying that the majority of these issues can get hammered out with more experienced. They seemed decent against Oakland, so maybe there is some hope left for this group.
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Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.

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Old 08-29-2011, 03:29 AM    (permalink
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It's really demoralizing the amount of high draft picks that were put into this offensive line and it just sucks on all levels it seems. Too bad we couldn't keep Baas for center. Looks like we really downgraded. I'm starting to wonder if it's a coaching problem and/or just talent problem. Staley seems like he's been going downhill the last couple of seasons. He looked really promising in his rookie year. Anthony Davis seems like he shouldn't have been a first rounder at all. Iupati looks promising, but he's still blowing assignments. Rachal is awful period. I'm praying that the majority of these issues can get hammered out with more experienced. They seemed decent against Oakland, so maybe there is some hope left for this group.
I actually thought the Oline was getting used to playing in a toned down, quick-hitting Martz system..when we got rid of that system it made everyone regress terribly. I think the system changes have taken their toll on everyone, not just the QBs.
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Old 08-29-2011, 10:35 AM    (permalink
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Staley would do better if they put him back at RT, with the team finding a LT to anchor the line. Rachal should have stayed in school another year but wanted to get a paycheck to help his family. You can't argue with that, that was his top priority and another year of college may have helped his development/maturity. He had "upside" and is a decent mauler in the running game, but gets killed in pass pro too often. Iupati should still improve and I believe will turn into a very good LG. I'm concerned about Davis but he does have youth on his side, so we shouldn't all panic...yet. Losing Baas hurt, though I don't know if he was worth the Top 3 Center money he got paid to go to the Giants. Maybe he was.
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Old 08-29-2011, 11:05 AM    (permalink
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If Smith is getting that battered when waiting for his receivers to complete intermediate/deep routes, maybe we'll see him in the 'gun on short routes to get some time...
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Old 08-29-2011, 12:10 PM    (permalink
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I'm almost at the point where i want to clean house on the Ol and QB, just start over. I'm just getting tired of watching these bums, just exhausted...crappy. It was crappy seeing Harbaugh so dejected too, it was pretty obvious he was confused at how thoroughly they got dominated.
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Old 08-29-2011, 12:31 PM    (permalink
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I'll reserve my judgement on the O-Line until we play Seattle Week 1.
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Old 08-29-2011, 03:28 PM    (permalink
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By the way the pocket didn't "collapse" when Smith threw the ball that was batted at the LOS.

I understand your point with this pic as he does have space. He's not "working through thrash. However, it is hard for to believe that Snyder's assignment was to drop 5 yards behind the LOS.

And it's a cluster---- on the left side as well. Batted passes happen, but they happen alot easier when the DL gets a push upfield.
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Old 08-29-2011, 03:35 PM    (permalink
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Not sure what you are trying to prove though. I already acknowledged that the pocket isn't that great, but it doesn't change my opinion that Smith is an average to terrible quarterback.
I'm trying to make MY point, not disprove yours. I've never argued Smith's ability in this thread, yet you keep reminding us you dislike him.

My point is that if you put the all-time greatest QB in NFL history behind the line that showed up on Saturday, they wouldn't have had success. This is a gameday thread, not a career reaction thread.

Your opinion of Smith could very well be spot-on this season. However, that doesn't alter my opinion that you cannot judge his performance based upon the time he was given to throw on Saturday.
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Old 08-29-2011, 05:46 PM    (permalink
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I understand your point with this pic as he does have space. He's not "working through thrash. However, it is hard for to believe that Snyder's assignment was to drop 5 yards behind the LOS.

And it's a cluster---- on the left side as well. Batted passes happen, but they happen alot easier when the DL gets a push upfield.
I'm just saying the pocket didn't collapse on that play like you believed it did. Smith had time to make the throw and he did. He just got it batted down.
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Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.
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Old 08-29-2011, 05:49 PM    (permalink
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I'm trying to make MY point, not disprove yours. I've never argued Smith's ability in this thread, yet you keep reminding us you dislike him.

My point is that if you put the all-time greatest QB in NFL history behind the line that showed up on Saturday, they wouldn't have had success. This is a gameday thread, not a career reaction thread.

Your opinion of Smith could very well be spot-on this season. However, that doesn't alter my opinion that you cannot judge his performance based upon the time he was given to throw on Saturday.
Well it's kind of difficult not to talk about Smith and how I feel about his play when we're discussing that I believe someone like Andrew Luck would be a better option regardless of our line's issues. Him being the quarterback is the main reason why I believe Luck would be an upgrade. In general, you can still have a better option behind center even if the line is terrible. We've seen it time and time again with a lot of quarterbacks that have been productive. You obviously disagree and think this is impossible so I guess this is where it ends.
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Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.

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Old 08-29-2011, 05:51 PM    (permalink
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I'll reserve my judgement on the O-Line until we play Seattle Week 1.
Seattle won't be that good of a test in my opinion. If we want to compete, we're going to have to at least do well in one on ones against good D-lines and teams with potentially winning records.
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Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.

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Old 08-29-2011, 06:56 PM    (permalink
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We've seen it time and time again with a lot of quarterbacks that have been productive. You obviously disagree and think this is impossible so I guess this is where it ends.
Yes, I guess it does because...

You believe you've seen it time and time again where QBs succeed when getting hit in under 3 seconds.

I believe no QB has ever succeeded when getting hit in under 3 seconds.


Agree to disagree, I guess.
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Old 08-29-2011, 07:44 PM    (permalink
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Oh I'm saying despite the line, Smith looks terrible. He should have been off the team years ago. It's beyond "one and done".
anyone would look terrible behind this line
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Old 08-29-2011, 08:58 PM    (permalink
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Yes, I guess it does because...

You believe you've seen it time and time again where QBs succeed when getting hit in under 3 seconds.

I believe no QB has ever succeeded when getting hit in under 3 seconds.


Agree to disagree, I guess.
Perhaps your clocked analysis just isn't correct on every single play. I already felt Smith wasn't a good player before we had this bad a line, so it doesn't really matter anyways. Even if the line magically improved, I feel Smith doesn't have the natural instincts a lot of the better quarterbacks in the league possess and he'll either make the wrong decision at the most crucial times or win when it matters least. But yes, agree to disagree.
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Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.

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Old 08-29-2011, 10:08 PM    (permalink
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It is hard for me to believe Staley has become such a bad left tackle.
Sometimes I think Smith just does a bad job of moving around in the pocket, stepping up and out of the way of the DE's. Not saying it happens all the time but adding that on top of when the line actually gets beat and it is a disaster.

Certainly the 49ers line is not the best in the league, but I highly doubt it is as bad as this preseason has made it look.
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Old 08-29-2011, 11:58 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goon61 View Post
It is hard for me to believe Staley has become such a bad left tackle.
Sometimes I think Smith just does a bad job of moving around in the pocket, stepping up and out of the way of the DE's. Not saying it happens all the time but adding that on top of when the line actually gets beat and it is a disaster.

Certainly the 49ers line is not the best in the league, but I highly doubt it is as bad as this preseason has made it look.
The line isn't going to play this bad once the season starts game after game. I'd be very surprised at that. It may be bad, but I don't think it will be as bad as what we've seen against the Raiders and Saints. At least not consistently. The good news is that these players know they have to focus and get better at protecting the quarterback.

Smith does do a bad job of moving around in the pocket and making a decision quick enough even in years past when protection was decent in games. That's just how he is unfortunately. And yes it is true that some offensive lines can look worse than they seem because of the quarterback. That's not the case so far as the line is just plain bad.
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Old 08-30-2011, 04:12 AM    (permalink
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Didn't Alex have one of the higher ratings in the league when he was given more than 2-3 seconds? I thought Sando had a blog about that. Alex doesn't worry me when he has time, he worries me when he doesn't..I think in that same blog he had the worst rating when given less than 3 seconds...the guy can't improvise for crap....and behind this oline, he's going to have to.

I'm starting to think that maybe our lines just don't play well for a QB like Alex, maybe he's just too nice of a guy. It would be easy if the solution was that simple..but then again, the line nearly got Shaun Hill killed as well vs ATL and Houston, so much so that he couldn't buy a first down. Basically, we need a miracle or a savior.
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Old 08-30-2011, 06:20 AM    (permalink
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or, you know, they're just not that good. there seems to be a penchant for overrating talent on the niners.
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