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Old 05-02-2009, 02:44 PM    (permalink
starwitness
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Unless you consider Abram Elam, Kenyon Coleman, and Brett Ratliff to be worth a second round pick combined, and I'm not sure what realistic individuals draft picks you can allocate to those individual players that can make them worth a second, they got a good deal on the value chart. And trading a second that in all likelihood would not have good value for what was needed was nothing awful either.

I think that late first and 2nd round picks are the most valuable commodities in the league because there are always starting caliber players available at multiple positions, and the picks dont carry the financial risk of a top ten selection. That said, I still dont like trading trading multiple picks and players for one guy, especially an unproven guy.

As for how much the Jets gave up for Sanchez, I think we can use the Jay Cutler trade as a measuring stick. Cutler is a proven pro bowl guy, a franchise player at his position. He's one of the top 3-5 young QB's in the league, and he's playing at a bargain price at 6yrs 47 million. The Bears got him for Orton, two 1s and a 3. The Jets traded a 1, a 2, Coleman, Ratliff, and Elam to get Sanchez, who could get somewhere between 60-70 million should he sign a 6 yr deal (Matt Ryan got 6yrs 72 million last year/Stafford got 6yrs 70 million + 6million in incentives). You could argue either side here, but I'd say the Bears and Jets gave up about the same amount to get thier guys. And I'd also say the Bears got a proven guy, at a much cheaper price, so thier trade for Cutler looks alot better then the deal you guys made for the 50/50 Mark Sanchez.

Yes the move hurt depth, and yes they are talking a chance on an unproven player. You either have to do that or hope to get lucky to land a franchise QB, and the Jets haven't been lucky for the past few years...or decades really. The organization found a QB they universally liked and felt would fit in here and decided to take a shot. We'll see how it plays out, but everybody liked him and felt it was worth it. As Jets fans all we can do is hope it works out, as a Dolphins fan all you can do is hope it doesn't work out, and nothing anybody says now means anything. We'll all have to see what happens. Sanchez has the work ethic and physical tools to make it work in the league, whether or not he manages to have success is, as I said, yet to be determined.

Hard to argue with any of that. All I can say is that I'm not in Dolfan mode here. Im just answering the question asked in the topic title, did the Jets give up too much? As several people have said, if Sanchez pans out, it'lll be seen as a good deal. But you cant argue that its not a major risk. And assuming that Ryan wants to pound the ball and play defense, a franchise QB isnt necessary. You guys need a smart, dependable QB who can move the chains and protect the ball. You dont need a guy to come in and chuck it 40 times a game, or throw for 4000 yards and 30 TDs. So Sanchez is not only a major risk, he's an unecessary risk as well.

The fact of the matter is that you're coming in here and telling us things that we already know. Sanchez was a risk. The move hurt depth. We need a WR more than we need a RB. But at this point all we can do is hope as fans of our team things work out. Clowney, Smith, or Stuckey steps up in a big way this season. Shonn Greene justifies trading 2 picks to move up to get him. Sanchez is a franchise QB. Our offensive line depth is better than we anticipate. The defense comes together. Nobody gets hurt. That's what we'll do, and I understand you'll do the opposite.

I'm coming in here to answer the question that the original poster asked, nothing more. If my opinion ruffles a few feathers, so be it. But this is a football forum, and we're all here to talk football, right?. The hopes you allude to are accurrate imo. But again, your team's place in the AFC East pecking order suffered considerably on draft weekend. Not so much b/c of the deals, but because (on paper) the Bills, Dolphins, and Patriots all improved thier rosters more than the Jets did. I HATE the Pats, and the Bills are sub human, but I give credit where it's due and both of those teams did well this offseason. If Brady is healthy, the Pats are scary good again, and theyve got three 2nd round picks again next year.

Personally, I'm concerned about the lack of depth and I know there's about a 50/50 chance Sanchez will bust. I don't think we're going to make the playoffs this year, and I think starting Sanchez with our WR situation is a mistake. I wanted them to hand the starting job to Clemens, since I don't want Sanchez starting this year and I don't want him losing to Clemens in training camp. I don't like being between building long-term and having a win-now team on defense and the offensive front. We'll see what happens. It's just that nobody likes having a fan from another team come onto your team board and say your team ****** up and they're screwed. It's 50/50 for a lot of these guys, the lack of the depth hurts, we'll see how the defense comes together, and hopefully nobody gets injured. Can't wait till games start and we can see what's what.

There's nothing wrong with a little smack talk. And you should blame the topic starter, not me. Im just answering the question. The Jets made some good moves this offseason. Lito Sheppard was a good player when I last saw him (2007) in a starting role. Bart Scott was a beast last year, and he'll be playing in the same system. I think Jets fans will love Jim Leonhard and Larry Izzo. Like you said, we'll have to see what happens. But with the info thats available today, I'd say the Jets have alot of work to do.
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Old 05-02-2009, 06:55 PM    (permalink
derza222
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Your opinion wasn't what ruffled the feathers, more how you stated it initially. I've got no beef with how the back and forth went since, it was just how you came off when you first posted in this thread that irked everyone, though props to you for not caring (and I'm not being sarcastic).

I agree the Jets have work to do, mostly offensively and some with depth on the defensive line and at safety. I do think our starting defensive unit can be a force to be reckoned with if the system change goes smoothly. It's very easy to underestimate what the additions of Leonhard, Scott, and Sheppard will do but they filled by far our three biggest holes on defense. We did not have a safety who could cover besides Rhodes which resulted in a lot of big plays for other teams and also forced Rhodes to cover more instead of roaming and making plays which allows him to make a bigger impact. Our inside linebackers also could not cover and Scott brings familiarity with the system along with more versatility and talent than Barton had. Finally, we had Ty Law playing #2 corner last year and Lito Sheppard has tremendous potential. He'll still be better than anybody we had last year in a worst case scenario though. All three should massively upgrade our starting unit, and depth won't be too much worse. Our depth wasn't fantastic last year either.

I more or less agree with everything else or generally see where you're coming from except the Jets and Bears giving up about equal amounts for Cutler and Sanchez. The Jets could not even get on the phone with the Broncos for Cutler, and would have been laughed halfway across the earth if they offered a first, a second, and those three backups for Cutler. The only reason they were able to get up to five is because the Browns defensive talent level is poor and Mangini is in love with some of our personnel guys that wouldn't be starting here. Wasn't even close.
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Old 09-04-2011, 10:44 AM    (permalink
xenon121
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Originally Posted by derza222 View Post
I still think we're going to be finding low-priced veterans to fill the role on the team that 5th, 6th, 7th round guys would have. They're proven, and you end up cutting half of the later round guys anyway. Point taken though, it's absolutely tough to rely on a UDFA class even if you probably would have drafted some of those guys if you had the picks.

At this point there's really nothing left to do than to see if this strategy works, but I absolutely agree that depth is an issue right now. The one thing I do think, though, is that there are other ways to find depth than late-round picks. And those guys generally end up being more proven players. I think, provided our rookies don't cost too much, we're going to be raiding the waiver wire throughout the rest of the offseason to help the depth. Rotoworld said the Giants are going to be cutting some early 30's backup swing G/C guy soon, wouldn't be shocked if we start giving guys like that looks.

The one other thing this method does help is to prevent reaches. I'd bet that given we had over three full rounds between our second and third picks, we had Slauson rated higher than a sixth rounder. We may have considered him in the fourth, fifth round. So it does end up pushing things back.
i completely agree with you.
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