The Official Kansas City Chiefs General Discussion Thread

[TheMatriculator]

Originally Posted by Brown Leader

The hail-mary play at the half, I think it was, where he scrambled around aimlessly forever, only to get sacked and not even get the pass off...that's who Cassel is. Don't mean to pile on but it hurt to watch that play. Just snooping around the board. Thinking about a mock and just curious what the talk was.

I do think the SD game will be closer than the first two but wondering if Cassel will even finish the game-anyone else think Palko might get an opportunity?

Also, it looked like Charles tried to stop while stepping on the 1st down marker-curious if anyone else saw that and just speculating if that instability when he planted might have blew the knee? Thoughts....?

You are right about the injury. Charles was stretching for the first down, he was pushed and lost his balance and then he planted his foot on the down marker. You could see movement in the knee and, as Vidae said, knew immediately that it was bad.

As for Cassel, I think there has been a tendency to blame him for everything that is wrong with this offense. With this receiving corp, no QB could suceed. It's pretty much Dwayne Bowe and nothing. People I know in Arizona say that after the injuries, Breaston isn't the same player he was when Haley was there. Jerheme Urban!!!??? Not sure what Haley sees in him but I'll bet the idea of game planning for Jerheme Urban must give offensive coordinators in the NFL a good laugh.

Cassel isn't the guy that can put the team on his back and carry them to victory. He's a game manager, his job is not to win the game, his job is not to lose it. Is that bad thing? Well, that's pretty much what Len Dawson was but he had a better cast around him. Cassel must have help and right now he's not getting it. The first two interceptons on Sunday, he hit the receiver in the hands (both hands). That's about all you can expect any QB to do.

BTW...yes, if we can draft Luck, we must draft Luck.

[vidae]

Jon Baldwin was a limited participant in practice today and the big splint is gone. Maybe he'll be able to see some action by week 6 or 7. I'd love to see him in a real game.

ps good to see you kicking around here again Matriculator!

[nepg]

He should be back for the Indy game. Thought he was only supposed to be out 2-4 weeks of the regular season...

Cassel is more than a game manager. We saw that he's more than that last year and we saw that he's more than that in 2008.

[Splat]

Last year any time a team stopped the Chiefs running game they lost. That is because our game managing QB can't win games.

When forced to pass he crumples under the pressure every time.

[nepg]

Originally Posted by Splat

Last year any time a team stopped the Chiefs running game they lost. That is because our game managing QB can't win games.

When forced to pass he crumples under the pressure every time.

Eh... When they took away the run, all they had to do was take away Bowe (really not that hard) and there was NO ONE ELSE to throw to. I don't think you guys can grasp how much worse the Chiefs' receivers are compared to every other team in the NFL.

[Splat]

It really doesn't matter who the other WR's are since Cassel isn't going to look their way.

Gee Bowe isn't open? Do I force the ball to him any ways or take the sack? I'll just under throw him by 20 yards and make him come back to the ball and hope for the best.

[vidae]

Splay is right heh.. if Bowe is covered and our run game was shut down, HE shut down.. and Moeaki was a good weapon for him last year and he still didn't look for his second read.

You're blaming everyone BUT Cassel.. so far it's play calling or lack of WR depth or lack of the run game, but it's never Cassel. That is ridiculous.

[nepg]

Originally Posted by vidae

Splay is right heh.. if Bowe is covered and our run game was shut down, HE shut down.. and Moeaki was a good weapon for him last year and he still didn't look for his second read.

You're blaming everyone BUT Cassel.. so far it's play calling or lack of WR depth or lack of the run game, but it's never Cassel. That is ridiculous.

Yeah. I'm blaming those two things before Cassel. Because WR depth is an obvious issue, and if it isn't that bad then playcalling should get them open, which it doesn't.

Moeaki's nice, but he's easily covered, too. It's not like teams ever had to worry about anyone besides Bowe (corner and a safety), and then Moeaki was easily taken away as well (he's a really nice TE, but he's not out-running linebackers - certainly not safeties).

The guys at the end of the bench at WR & TE for 50% of the NFL would be starting for the Chiefs. And the receivers and level of talent at the position hasn't changed since 2009. They are THAT bad. Jerame Urban and Terrance Copper? That's terrible. Those are guys you might have as the very last player on your WR depth chart - maybe. That's the Chiefs 2nd and 4th options right now. No QB in the NFL is going anywhere with that group. Not Tom Brady, not Peyton Manning, not Aaron Rodgers, not Drew Brees...

Breaston has been a disappointment. Maybe he comes around when Baldwin gets on the field and the Chiefs are able to take the top off the defense with two serious downfield threats... That's really what I'm waiting to see.

[Splat]

How do you take the top off of a defense when you're QB can't throw deep?

[vidae]

Good QBs make the players around them better and all you've done is make excuses for Cassel. He is not good. Period. End of story.

And they might open up the playbook if they had any faith at all that Cassel could get the job done. He can't.

You're just wrong here. Cassel deserves some of the blame and you're willing to overlook his bad decision making and his penchant for holding onto the ball all god damn day for.. what? What reason? Are you Scott Pioli?

[chief_fan88]

Cassel put up pretty decent numbers last year with a worse supporting cast, so what is wrong with him this year, you would hope he gets better from season to season, and I question weather he was that good last year, because he really only played well against bad defenses, and once Weis said he was leaving he fell off a cliff.

The only way Cassel will be good, is to be around Weis or another offensive genius, or have a ridiculously talented team, like the Patriots, and did he even take them to the playoffs?

[nepg]

I thought they had a decent group starting, but always listed the depth at WR and TE as a huge issue, and it's showing. The starting group would be really nice if they were out there. Baldwin, Breaston, Moeaki, Bowe, with Pope and McCluster as an extra TE or slot... That's a solid group because you have 3 guys that open up the offense. With Baldwin and Moeaki out, they really don't have much to work with. Pope, McCluster, and apparently Breaston were all supposed to benefit from having Baldwin, Bowe, and Moeaki out there taking defenders away from little pockets on the field...

There's not much I can pin on Cassel here. He holds onto the ball giving his guys a chance to get open (sometimes it is just him flat-out making a bad play, but not usually). He's working with garbage, and if he made the "right" decision with the ball quickly every time, 90% of the pass plays would be thrown out of bounds.

I'm not really sure who's making the call between Pioli and Haley on the receivers they have - I tend to believe Pioli gives more power to Haley in that realm, but I have no idea... But whoever is in charge of that has really ****** up the last 3 years.

Guys aren't getting open and when Cassel gets the ball to them anyway, they don't catch it. You can't do much with that, as a QB. Especially without OTAs and training camp.

[nepg]

Originally Posted by chief_fan88

Cassel put up pretty decent numbers last year with a worse supporting cast, so what is wrong with him this year, you would hope he gets better from season to season, and I question weather he was that good last year, because he really only played well against bad defenses, and once Weis said he was leaving he fell off a cliff.

The only way Cassel will be good, is to be around Weis or another offensive genius, or have a ridiculously talented team, like the Patriots, and did he even take them to the playoffs?

Without Moeaki, the cast is a bit worse so far this year. With Baldwin, it should get to where it's much better because I'm thinking Breaston will become useful at that point.

The Pats were an 11-win team with Cassel...

[Splat]

Chiefs worked out RBs Jalen Parmele, Dimitri Nance, Sammy Morris and Chris Jennings on Thursday.

They also gave FB Mike Cox a second look.

[vidae]

Cassel will be a good QB with an insane supporting cast and a top flight offensive coordinator calling the plays to mask his weaknesses.

We have neither.

Last year we played some dogshit defenses and he was able to do something against those guys with a team that was relatively injury free, but when we have injuries to starting offensive weapons who are expected to help, he can't get it done.

It is that simple.

[vidae]

Originally Posted by nepg

Without Moeaki, the cast is a bit worse so far this year. With Baldwin, it should get to where it's much better because I'm thinking Breaston will become useful at that point.

The Pats were an 11-win team with Cassel...

These are the f'ing Patriots dude! They have more depth and better weapons across the board, on both sides of the ball. Not to mention better coaching in every position group.

You can't keep hanging on this.

[nepg]

Originally Posted by vidae

These are the f'ing Patriots dude! They have more depth and better weapons across the board, on both sides of the ball. Not to mention better coaching in every position group.

You can't keep hanging on this.

I can't keep hanging on what? Someone asked if the Pats made the playoffs that year, so I stated a fact.

When the Chiefs lose offensive weapons that are expected to contribute, they're left with nothing in the wake of their injuries. Nothing.

The Pats had Moss and Welker that year. Debatable how much of a difference there is between Moss at that point and Bowe now and Breaston doesn't create for himself like Welker does, but the rest of the receivers on that team? Sam Aiken, Jabar Gaffney (starter), Kelley Washington (only played special teams). Just shows exactly how little the Chiefs have there right now. New England really didn't have that much that year...hell, their leading rusher was Sammy Morris with 727 yards.

Let's get Jonathan Baldwin in the mix, spread the field and see how the offense goes and how the team functions with all three supposed starters.

[Don Vito]

Everytime I see highlights of the Chiefs/Lions game, Kendrick Lewis is getting toasted. Well it looks like the corners were having trouble, but still what the ****.

At least Dex will ball out now and you still have Powe and Darryl Harris. Represent.

[nepg]

Lewis made a terrible gamble on the Scheffler TD. That play kind of put the Chiefs out of the game completely. I have a hard time being too down on the defense, though.

[King Carls 5 Year Plan]

its pretty obvious to me. QBs that are capable of winning a Super Bowl Trophy also make their teammates alot better. Brees loses Colstin every year for multiple weeks and still gets 4500 and 33. Manning loses Collie, Garcon and Clark and still finds a way for his team to make a run and win their division. Rodgers loses everyone at 1 point or another and wins a SB. those QBs are SB winning QBs. everyone on that team is better because that QB is in the huddle and taking the snap. there isn't any excuses about injury, OC or scheme. they just get it done with whichever schlub they have playing/coaching that day.

Cassel needs top notch everything surrounding him and then we're hoping that he can manage this team to a SB title. that **** just doesnt happen. unfortunately, the QB position is about overcoming problems and still getting it done.

i guess it all boils down to 1 simple question. nepg, do you feel that Cassel is capable of leading the Chiefs to a Super Bowl victory? if you were the GM, would you feel comfortable with being the leader of your team with a SB ring as the final goal?

my only hope is to see the Chiefs win a Super Bowl. as i have said about every position and coach, if they aren't the ones capable of winning the Chiefs a SB, then they are standing in the way of the player/coach that will. Cassel is a good stop gap, but IMO, he isn't a SB caliber QB and he is only holding down this position until we can find that QB. Luck is that QB. Andrew gets up in the morning and pisses excellence. Cassel would be lucky to be sitting at the bottom of the bowl and get some on him. that's the closest Cassel will get to a SB QB.

it isn't Cassel's fault. he is who he is and i'm happy that he got a chance to prove his worth and get paid handsomely while doing it. now, we know who he is and it's time to move forward. nobody is mad, it's just the real world. if you aren't good at your job and can be replaced by a person with much more capabilities than yourself, then the business will move on and you're out of a job.

[nepg]

You're obviously not paying attention to the players on the depth charts for the Saints, Colts, and Packers if you think having the receivers Cassel has is in any way comparable to those situations.

Brees loses Colston? He has Devery Henderson (2nd round pick with speed to burn), Robert Meachem (first round pick), Lance Moore (highly productive at Toledo with BruGrad at QB), Adrian Arrington (big receiver who was very productive at Michigan)... They have great depth that was built from lots of talent. Not no names that Brees transformed into amazing players just by being Drew Brees.

Rodgers only ever lost Finley, but the Packers always have great depth at TE. Rodgers has one of the sickest receiving groups in the NFL. Not trying to knock Flynn or Rodgers, but when the backup can come in and put up similar numbers, things are going well outside of the QB situation. What happened when Cassel was hurt last year? Not exactly what happened when Flynn had to play against New England when Rodgers was out...

Manning never lost Reggie Wayne. Jacob Tamme was a highly talented and productive TE out of Kentucky who fit right into the Dallas Clark role, and Blair White was super productive at Michigan State. Even then with White, you're talking about the Colts getting down to their 5TH receiver! Their fifth receiver is a **** load more talented than what the Chiefs are throwing out there on Sundays outside of Bowe.

The Chiefs don't have talent at the receiver position beyond Bowe, Baldwin, and maybe Breaston. Pin it on Pioli or Haley, or whoever, but with 2 of the 4 guys that were supposed to come in and help the passing game are out, and all you've got to replace them is dogshit, I can't really put that on Cassel.

I've got zero problem with Cassel going forward. I think he's perfectly capable of leading the Chiefs to a championship, but they need to increase the level of talent that he's throwing to by a lot because right now, it's easily the worst in the NFL without Baldwin and Moeaki. And on Haley/Pioli's defense with this matter, they needed to bring in a bunch of UDFA receivers to compete, but couldn't because of the lockout and lack of time to work with them.

[vidae]

Cassel will never lead this club to a championship. It won't happen. He isn't good enough to do that. Good QBs make everyone around them better. Cassel can't do that and he'll never be able to do that. Cassel can't even look off his first read, he doesn't go through progressions, he doesn't throw it away when he needs to.. he's not what we need going forward.

If we have a seriously stacked team and a cupcake schedule, Cassel is your guy. If you want to contend not for playoffs, but CHAMPIONSHIPS, we're going to have to look elsewhere. Plain and simple.

Here is to hoping we have the opportunity to draft either Luck or Barkley, both of which make this team better, right now. If either are available where we pick, they're the obvious choice.

[vidae]

His stats in his previous four starts, three of which were at home: 57-of-109 for 437 yards, one touchdown and a whopping nine interceptions.

If we're playing CupcakeU and we're up two scores he can manage games, but he'll never win us one.

[TheMatriculator]

Originally Posted by Don Vito

Everytime I see highlights of the Chiefs/Lions game, Kendrick Lewis is getting toasted. Well it looks like the corners were having trouble, but still what the ****.

At least Dex will ball out now and you still have Powe and Darryl Harris. Represent.

Nobody is going to miss Eric Berry more than Kendrick Lewis. Last year Berry took every defensive snap for the Chiefs (1,065 defensive plays) and almost half of their 468 special teams plays. Lewis is going to have to relearn his position. Instead of Berry next to him, it's going to be either Jon McGraw or Sabby Piscitelli. Ouch!!!

[onejayhawk]

Originally Posted by chief_fan88

Cassel put up pretty decent numbers last year with a worse supporting cast, so what is wrong with him this year, you would hope he gets better from season to season, and I question weather he was that good last year, because he really only played well against bad defenses, and once Weis said he was leaving he fell off a cliff.

The only way Cassel will be good, is to be around Weis or another offensive genius, or have a ridiculously talented team, like the Patriots, and did he even take them to the playoffs?

Weiss is gone. That has to be a big part of it, but the team preparation is not up to last year either. Not as bad as 2009, but much too close.

Also, I have to wonder is the OC is really the OC, and if he is, is he any good.

J