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Old 11-05-2011, 06:26 PM    (permalink
jbooshey
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Default Why Isn't Anybody Talking about Montee Ball?

Seriously...Montee Ball was/is not in the conversation for the Heisman and he isn't being talked about by any of the draftniks. Montee needs some love too. he is the best Badger running back pro prospect that I can remember. Does he lose consideration for being a top back because he plays for UW, who hasn't had much success at the pro level at the running back position? I think Montee is going to make some team very, very happy. He is incredible and very versatile.
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Old 11-05-2011, 06:51 PM    (permalink
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Montee has been spectacular this season and he's really as complete of a back as you'll see...he's got speed (not blazing but he's quick), runs physically, and can be a receiver out of the backfield...he's the best Badgers back as far as a pro prospect since Brian Calhoun
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Old 11-05-2011, 06:55 PM    (permalink
jbooshey
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Montee has been spectacular this season and he's really as complete of a back as you'll see...he's got speed (not blazing but he's quick), runs physically, and can be a receiver out of the backfield...he's the best Badgers back as far as a pro prospect since Brian Calhoun
I was saying the same thing...but I've changed my mind. He is a better back pro prospect than Calhoun at this point. Calhoun was the one year wonder...Ball has proven to be plenty durable being the main guy for a year and a half. Also, Ball is bigger and has proven to be more of a breakaway threat than Calhoun even though Calhoun had better speed.
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Old 11-05-2011, 06:58 PM    (permalink
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I was saying the same thing...but I've changed my mind. He is a better back pro prospect than Calhoun at this point. Calhoun was the one year wonder...Ball has proven to be plenty durable being the main guy for a year and a half. Also, Ball is bigger and has proven to be more of a breakaway threat than Calhoun even though Calhoun had better speed.
I agree with you that he's better than Calhoun...just making the point that in terms of seeing a Badger that has some true pro potential, the school has produced one worth talking about since Calhoun and Ball certainly trumps him
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Old 11-05-2011, 07:02 PM    (permalink
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THe biggest problem i see is that I could run through the holes his OL are giving him. That shouldn't be a knock on him, but more a cautionary tale. He's got what you look for, but how much of that is his OL making him look really good.
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Old 11-05-2011, 07:13 PM    (permalink
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THe biggest problem i see is that I could run through the holes his OL are giving him. That shouldn't be a knock on him, but more a cautionary tale. He's got what you look for, but how much of that is his OL making him look really good.
I think that's a lazy argument...the Badgers line is good but they've had their struggles from time to time, especially with replacing Carimi and Moffitt on that left side...the line does open up holes, no doubt, but you watch someone like Ball run as opposed to his teammate James White, as an example, and you appreciate everything Ball can do.
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Old 11-05-2011, 08:04 PM    (permalink
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I think that's a lazy argument...the Badgers line is good but they've had their struggles from time to time, especially with replacing Carimi and Moffitt on that left side...the line does open up holes, no doubt, but you watch someone like Ball run as opposed to his teammate James White, as an example, and you appreciate everything Ball can do.
The perfect counter...Ball sees the hole and he hits it, but that isn't the end of his runs...he can make cuts, throw a stiff arm and high step through arm tackles. James White is a talented back in his own right, but watching Montee and him split carries, it makes you take notice of how good Montee really is.
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Old 11-06-2011, 07:54 AM    (permalink
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Because name the last successful back in the NFL from Wisconsin.


Who Michael Bennett? Hardly, guys like Anthony Davis, Brian Calhoun, Ron Dayne, John Clay all have not had success at the next level, and few Wisconsin backs if any have had success. Thus clearly, most of it has to do with the offensive line they run behind, not so much them as a runner.
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Old 11-06-2011, 09:55 PM    (permalink
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Because name the last successful back in the NFL from Wisconsin.


Who Michael Bennett? Hardly, guys like Anthony Davis, Brian Calhoun, Ron Dayne, John Clay all have not had success at the next level, and few Wisconsin backs if any have had success. Thus clearly, most of it has to do with the offensive line they run behind, not so much them as a runner.


Anthony Davis and Calhoun although different in quality...both had injury problems.

Ron Dayne was drafted by the wrong team and he actually had a solid career...it just wasn't what it could have been. I hope the Giants stop drafting Badgers starting this year.

John Clay lacks a work ethic and seeing as how he was undrafted (PJ Hill as well)...I'm not sure there were any pro expectations anyway.

Again...I'm not going to be the guy who doesn't draft Aaron Rodgers because Tedford QB's don't make good pros. If I see a player I like (Montee Ball)...I'm going to draft him regardless of the system he plays for.
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Old 11-07-2011, 01:09 AM    (permalink
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He'll have to show in the post season that he has the speed and shiftiness to play at the next level. Wisconsin's offensive system is going to make a RB look better than he really is, so we will only be able to judge his talent level in the post season when he is away from that system and competing on an equal basis with the other backs in the draft.
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Old 11-07-2011, 01:13 AM    (permalink
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I'm trying so hard to understand the first sentence of your post.
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Old 11-07-2011, 01:17 AM    (permalink
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I'm sure Ball will be an okay prospect and drafted somewhere decent, but his stats are very very very inflated in Wisconsin's system. It makes it very hard to scout just how good he can really be.
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Old 11-07-2011, 08:02 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Ozzy View Post
Because name the last successful back in the NFL from Wisconsin.


Who Michael Bennett? Hardly, guys like Anthony Davis, Brian Calhoun, Ron Dayne, John Clay all have not had success at the next level, and few Wisconsin backs if any have had success. Thus clearly, most of it has to do with the offensive line they run behind, not so much them as a runner.
It's not just Wisconsin. Things seem to be improving in the past five years, but the entire Big 10 has produced overrated RBs for the past 20 years or so. tOSU has had the most success (Eddie George, Robert Smith).

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Old 11-07-2011, 08:10 AM    (permalink
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I don't think Ball is anything special, at least not to the point to be considered one of the elite RB prospects. He's the same size as Lamar Miller, who has a good .12 seconds over him in speed. Not as big or as shifty as Trent Richardson. Nowhere near as fast as LaMichael James or David Wilson. I even think Polk, Gray and Martin bring more to the table than Ball. Martin has a lower center of gravity. Polk is better all around as an athlete. Gray, I admit I seem to like more than most, but I think he's a notch faster and shiftier than Ball.
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Old 11-07-2011, 11:49 AM    (permalink
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I like both Ball and James White. I wouldn't be surprised to see Ball go early to mid second, and White in the mid-rounds.
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I dunno even half of those guys why did we sign them jeez.
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Old 11-07-2011, 01:49 PM    (permalink
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I like both Ball and James White. I wouldn't be surprised to see Ball go early to mid second, and White in the mid-rounds.
White is a true soph, so he won't come out until at least after next year. Unless he has a phenominal year, which isn't very likely given what Wisconsin loses on that offense, he probably isn't out until the 2013 draft.

I think White has the potential to be the best pro back out of the recent string of Wisconsin backs (not saying much), but that includes Montee Ball.
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Old 11-07-2011, 02:29 PM    (permalink
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I don't think Ball is anything special, at least not to the point to be considered one of the elite RB prospects. He's the same size as Lamar Miller, who has a good .12 seconds over him in speed. Not as big or as shifty as Trent Richardson. Nowhere near as fast as LaMichael James or David Wilson. I even think Polk, Gray and Martin bring more to the table than Ball. Martin has a lower center of gravity. Polk is better all around as an athlete. Gray, I admit I seem to like more than most, but I think he's a notch faster and shiftier than Ball.
so you're rationale for dropping Ball is that he's not as good as Trent Richardson and he's not as fast as the guys who rely on their speed? Ball is strong after contact, hits the holes hard, and is more quick than he is fast, which makes him as complete a back as you'll find in this draft (potentially) for a back not named Richardson.

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White is a true soph, so he won't come out until at least after next year. Unless he has a phenominal year, which isn't very likely given what Wisconsin loses on that offense, he probably isn't out until the 2013 draft.

I think White has the potential to be the best pro back out of the recent string of Wisconsin backs (not saying much), but that includes Montee Ball.
White has not progressed this year and he's not built enough to take on the demands of the NFL. He's well below Ball in terms of being a pro prospect.
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Old 11-07-2011, 05:45 PM    (permalink
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so you're rationale for dropping Ball is that he's not as good as Trent Richardson and he's not as fast as the guys who rely on their speed? Ball is strong after contact, hits the holes hard, and is more quick than he is fast, which makes him as complete a back as you'll find in this draft (potentially) for a back not named Richardson.



White has not progressed this year and he's not built enough to take on the demands of the NFL. He's well below Ball in terms of being a pro prospect.
Granted I haven't watched a lot of White this season and I don't believe a lot has been asked of him, but I really don't think you can judge much from a kid that's played 1.5 seasons of college ball. A lot of players hit a wall their 2nd year, which may or may not be what's happening to White. He had a phenominal frosh year and now a subpar soph year.

I think it's unfair to compare the two at this point as pro prospects. Obviously Ball is the better prospect right now. I just thought from what I saw last year and some this year, White has the potential to be a better prospect when he comes out, that's all.

But who knows if the Badger offense and OL are the reason behind him having a good frosh year, and Ball having a great season this year. That's the problem, which others mentioned, with evaluating a Wisconsin RB.
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Old 11-07-2011, 07:44 PM    (permalink
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White is a true soph, so he won't come out until at least after next year. Unless he has a phenominal year, which isn't very likely given what Wisconsin loses on that offense, he probably isn't out until the 2013 draft.

I think White has the potential to be the best pro back out of the recent string of Wisconsin backs (not saying much), but that includes Montee Ball.
I wasn't trying to say that White will go pro this year. Just saying that I like both of them and where I think they'll go when they go pro.
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Old 11-07-2011, 08:02 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by princefielder28 View Post
so you're rationale for dropping Ball is that he's not as good as Trent Richardson and he's not as fast as the guys who rely on their speed? Ball is strong after contact, hits the holes hard, and is more quick than he is fast, which makes him as complete a back as you'll find in this draft (potentially) for a back not named Richardson.
Yes. Isn't that kind of the point of this whole thread? The questions asks why isn't anybody talking about Montee Ball. The point of my answer was to answer why I and others are probably not talking about him as much as some think we should. Guys like Ball are a dime a dozen. Every RB runs hard, hits holes hard and doesn't like to go down easily. To separate from the middle of the pack, I think you have to have either speed or the ability to make people miss. I think he's a notch below every guy I named.
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Old 11-07-2011, 08:02 PM    (permalink
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What round do you see him getting drafted?
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Old 11-07-2011, 08:46 PM    (permalink
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I sincerely don't see him coming out this year, he has an additional year of eligibility and I think he'll use it.
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Old 11-08-2011, 08:28 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by rawdawg View Post
Yes. Isn't that kind of the point of this whole thread? The questions asks why isn't anybody talking about Montee Ball. The point of my answer was to answer why I and others are probably not talking about him as much as some think we should. Guys like Ball are a dime a dozen. Every RB runs hard, hits holes hard and doesn't like to go down easily. To separate from the middle of the pack, I think you have to have either speed or the ability to make people miss. I think he's a notch below every guy I named.
Doesn't running through tackles count as making guys miss? Because if you include that (which you should) then Ball does that on almost every single run. He is fast enough for the NFL and he has more than enough power and enough agility to be effective in any setting. You need to actually watch the guy run.
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Old 11-08-2011, 07:34 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by jbooshey View Post
Doesn't running through tackles count as making guys miss? Because if you include that (which you should) then Ball does that on almost every single run. He is fast enough for the NFL and he has more than enough power and enough agility to be effective in any setting. You need to actually watch the guy run.
So, because I disagree with you I haven't seen him run? He runs thru college players. He's not running thru tackles with Ray Lewis, Brian Urlacher, or Patrick Willis. Not saying he can't or that those guys never miss a tackle, but the fact is guys who run through tackles don't last as long as guys who makes tacklers miss. And guys who are 5'10", 215lbs like Ball definitely don't last that long running in that style.
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Old 11-09-2011, 08:48 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by rawdawg View Post
So, because I disagree with you I haven't seen him run? He runs thru college players. He's not running thru tackles with Ray Lewis, Brian Urlacher, or Patrick Willis. Not saying he can't or that those guys never miss a tackle, but the fact is guys who run through tackles don't last as long as guys who makes tacklers miss. And guys who are 5'10", 215lbs like Ball definitely don't last that long running in that style.
So because Urlacher, Willis and Lewis don't play college football...Montee Ball can't prove himself? How in the world do scouts project any college player to play in the pro game? I have no doubt in my mind that Ball in a game situation could make any player miss a tackle. Inferior backs at the pro level do it...it isn't Ball's fault he isn't in the pros yet. He has done everything he can at his current level and that includes staying healthy.
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