New England Patriots Discussion

[ElectricEye]

It's all but guaranteed we don't sign Page because it makes way too much sense. We're above such rational thoughts.

[nepg]

Originally Posted by AntoinCD

The Chiefs shouldn't be able to run the ball. If Haley is happy putting it all on Palko to throw 30+ times then I'm all for it.

The Chiefs defense doesn't scare me either. They have 9 sacks all year. If we can stop Hali then nobody else is much of a worry. Brady should have time to cut them apart. I'm honestly expecting a pretty easy win and I seldom think that coming up to games.

Eh... I'm not all for the Pats' corners covering the B's against any pass attempt. If the Chiefs try to go conservative, they'll lose because they're just not going to run on the Patriots that successfully. If they can get Palko just enough time to air it out, they have a serious shot.

And that KC defense is no joke. Very talented group and Carr/Flowers might be the best duo in the league this year.

This is a tough game for the Pats, and their only big advantage is Gronk & Hernandez v. the KC safeties... But that's been their advantage in every game this year and they've still lost.

[cmarq83]

Originally Posted by nepg

Eh... I'm not all for the Pats' corners covering the B's against any pass attempt. If the Chiefs try to go conservative, they'll lose because they're just not going to run on the Patriots that successfully. If they can get Palko just enough time to air it out, they have a serious shot.

And that KC defense is no joke. Very talented group and Carr/Flowers might be the best duo in the league this year.

This is a tough game for the Pats, and their only big advantage is Gronk & Hernandez v. the KC safeties... But that's been their advantage in every game this year and they've still lost.

There are certainly bad matchups for the Pats like you've mentioned. Flowers and Carr are very physical and should pose a problem for us. Hali on Light is going to be a disaster, but overall there shouldn't be any reason why this team wins by less than 2 TD's. The Broncos ran all over the Chiefs last week without there top 2 RB's. Gronk/Welker are huge advantages for us. Also for the first time this season I feel like we have more talent on our defense than the other team does on their offense. It's basically Baldwin/Bowe and a giant pile of crap for them.

[nepg]

"ran all over"... Not really. The Broncos had some success early in the game, but were shut down nearly completely after the first quarter. The problem was the offense not protecting Cassel for any amount of time. The Chiefs should have rolled the Broncos. They've got a really good defense. The Chiefs have Breaston as well.

Basically the Chiefs' only hope is to chuck it deep and challenge the Pats' secondary to cover Baldwin, Breaston, and Bowe (they can't) while trying to keep Gronk from running completely wild.

[BradysKnee]

Originally Posted by nepg

"ran all over"... Not really. The Broncos had some success early in the game, but were shut down nearly completely after the first quarter. The problem was the offense not protecting Cassel for any amount of time. The Chiefs should have rolled the Broncos. They've got a really good defense. The Chiefs have Breaston as well.

Basically the Chiefs' only hope is to chuck it deep and challenge the Pats' secondary to cover Baldwin, Breaston, and Bowe (they can't) while trying to keep Gronk from running completely wild.

I really think you give the Chiefs too much credit here. This will not be a close game of any kind.

[Matthew Jones]

Originally Posted by nepg

"ran all over"... Not really. The Broncos had some success early in the game, but were shut down nearly completely after the first quarter. The problem was the offense not protecting Cassel for any amount of time. The Chiefs should have rolled the Broncos. They've got a really good defense. The Chiefs have Breaston as well.

Basically the Chiefs' only hope is to chuck it deep and challenge the Pats' secondary to cover Baldwin, Breaston, and Bowe (they can't) while trying to keep Gronk from running completely wild.

The Chiefs may have some weapons but don't forget Tyler Palko is going to be the starting quarterback.

[cmarq83]

Originally Posted by nepg

"ran all over"... Not really. The Broncos had some success early in the game, but were shut down nearly completely after the first quarter.

Well regardless how the rest of the game went they still had difficulty stopping a team that had absolutely no chance of passing on them, and this has been a recurring problem all season with them. Be it Buffalo, Miami, San Diego, or whomever most teams have had a lot of success running the ball against that defense. I suspect if the Patriots try to establish the run they'll have success with it.

[descendency]

Originally Posted by RavenOfProphecy

The Chiefs may have some weapons but don't forget Tyler Palko is going to be the starting quarterback.

As BB pointed out, Tyler Palko beat out Joe Flacco at Pitt. Just something to think about.

[BradysKnee]

Originally Posted by descendency

As BB pointed out, Tyler Palko beat out Joe Flacco at Pitt. Just something to think about.

Yeah, Drew Henson beat out Brady too.

[Don Vito]

Originally Posted by BradysKnee

Yeah, Drew Henson beat out Brady too.

Point, meet the ultimate counterpoint

[descendency]

Originally Posted by BradysKnee

Yeah, Drew Henson beat out Brady too.

That's an extremely rare exception though.


----

edit: if either the Steelers or the Ravens win as many games as NE the rest of the year (and both have soft schedules), they win the #1 seed (i'm ruling out houston, because Leinart sucks). Both must lose and NE must win out for home field advantage.

[Jvig43]

Timmy Tebow

[ElectricEye]

So the worst team we've had in years is rapidly getting put into position to make some sort of run. What a weird year.

[nepg]

Originally Posted by BradysKnee

Yeah, Drew Henson beat out Brady too.

Henson never really beat out Brady. The coaching staff just let Henson get some snaps because there was pressure from those above them to make it happen. They always preferred Brady, and it was obvious.

Palko's a lot better than he's been given credit for. He's a capable backup. As for Pitt...Palko was a pretty highly ranked recruit going into Pitt.

[descendency]

Originally Posted by ElectricEye

So the worst team we've had in years is rapidly getting put into position to make some sort of run. What a weird year.

We're basically guaranteed the #2 (at least) seed as well.

[Blackluck]

Anyone read War Room by Michael Holley?
Some interesting tidbits:

The Patriot scouts didn't like Malroney, but Josh did (his brother Ben worked in Minnesota.) Scouts thought he was immature and lacked a worth ethic. Patriot scouts also didn't want Chad Jackson: Bad route runner, poor worth ethic and a 'me' attitude. Urban Meyer however thought his athleticism would translate to the NFL. Jackson refused to watch film despite Deion Sanders and others asking him to do so repeatedly. BB made the call in both cases.

The Patriots were going to draft Steven Jackson but were suprised when Vince fell to them. They tried to move back up to get Jackson but the Rams didn't have as far to go.

Thomas Dimritoff is really close with Pioli and still with BB. Dimritoff actually called Belichick to get feedback on his plan to move way up and draft Jones. BB said he wouldn't do it, as he thought Jones' hands were too inconsistent and could get comparable value by taking Baldwin.

Also BB doesn't care about reaches when he really wants a player: Zoltan and Volmer being prime examples. I was hoping the book would delve into Belichick's aversion to drafting pass rushers but no such luck :)

[BradysKnee]

Man, getting Wilfork + Jackson would've been sweet. lol

[bored of education]

Originally Posted by BradysKnee

I really think you give the Chiefs too much credit here. This will not be a close game of any kind.

I may disagree with you here sir. I am the biggest Chiefs homer ever, well one of about 16.5 million Chiefs homers. But to say they will steamroll and say the game will not be close of any kind is a bit ********.

You know what BB and his staff over the last 12 years has emphasized right? You have watched and diagnosed every game since BB took over? I have, several times over. The biggest thing BB focuses on are match ups and exploiting the weaknesses of the other team or shutting down their greatest strength. Their is no greater coach in the history of the game than BB at those particular areas.

What are the Chiefs best at right now and what are the Patriots best at right now. The Chiefs nothing really. Bug they have a much better coaching staff from top to bottom than the Pats, to me that inarguable. RAC, Haley, Gibbs, Pleasant, Zorn, Smith, Thomas >>>>>>>>>. BB and who else is on that staff? I don't even know? Obrien? Pepper? MEH.

I think this game ends up being the greatest of a 14 point victory for the Pats. Not an easy victory. Don't be shocked if Brady is sacked more than 3 times with at least 6 QB hits. Don't be shocked if he throws 2 picks. Im not saying those will happen. I just think the coaching up of an inferior roster as perceived by the ******** public of the world(which minus Qb I'd take the Chiefs any day of the weeeekk over the roster of the Pats) will be the deciding factor.

I am not making sense. I know for I am still drink from last night and being optimistic.

I am going to the game though! Who else is going? I will be in a Bowe jersey with a black hoodie underneath!


Justin Houston will rape your souls!

[BradysKnee]

Originally Posted by bored of education

I may disagree with you here sir. I am the biggest Chiefs homer ever, well one of about 16.5 million Chiefs homers. But to say they will steamroll and say the game will not be close of any kind is a bit ********.

You know what BB and his staff over the last 12 years has emphasized right? You have watched and diagnosed every game since BB took over? I have, several times over. The biggest thing BB focuses on are match ups and exploiting the weaknesses of the other team or shutting down their greatest strength. Their is no greater coach in the history of the game than BB at those particular areas.

What are the Chiefs best at right now and what are the Patriots best at right now. The Chiefs nothing really. Bug they have a much better coaching staff from top to bottom than the Pats, to me that inarguable. RAC, Haley, Gibbs, Pleasant, Zorn, Smith, Thomas >>>>>>>>>. BB and who else is on that staff? I don't even know? Obrien? Pepper? MEH.

I think this game ends up being the greatest of a 14 point victory for the Pats. Not an easy victory. Don't be shocked if Brady is sacked more than 3 times with at least 6 QB hits. Don't be shocked if he throws 2 picks. Im not saying those will happen. I just think the coaching up of an inferior roster as perceived by the ******** public of the world(which minus Qb I'd take the Chiefs any day of the weeeekk over the roster of the Pats) will be the deciding factor.

I am not making sense. I know for I am still drink from last night and being optimistic.

I am going to the game though! Who else is going? I will be in a Bowe jersey with a black hoodie underneath!


Justin Houston will rape your souls!

[cmarq83]

Originally Posted by bored of education

I may disagree with you here sir. I am the biggest Chiefs homer ever, well one of about 16.5 million Chiefs homers. But to say they will steamroll and say the game will not be close of any kind is a bit ********.

You know what BB and his staff over the last 12 years has emphasized right? You have watched and diagnosed every game since BB took over? I have, several times over. The biggest thing BB focuses on are match ups and exploiting the weaknesses of the other team or shutting down their greatest strength. Their is no greater coach in the history of the game than BB at those particular areas.

What are the Chiefs best at right now and what are the Patriots best at right now. The Chiefs nothing really. Bug they have a much better coaching staff from top to bottom than the Pats, to me that inarguable. RAC, Haley, Gibbs, Pleasant, Zorn, Smith, Thomas >>>>>>>>>. BB and who else is on that staff? I don't even know? Obrien? Pepper? MEH.

I think this game ends up being the greatest of a 14 point victory for the Pats. Not an easy victory. Don't be shocked if Brady is sacked more than 3 times with at least 6 QB hits. Don't be shocked if he throws 2 picks. Im not saying those will happen. I just think the coaching up of an inferior roster as perceived by the ******** public of the world(which minus Qb I'd take the Chiefs any day of the weeeekk over the roster of the Pats) will be the deciding factor.

I am not making sense. I know for I am still drink from last night and being optimistic.

I am going to the game though! Who else is going? I will be in a Bowe jersey with a black hoodie underneath!


Justin Houston will rape your souls!

The points in bold I don't really agree with.

BB is such an enormous advantage over Haley and the Patriots have the best O-Line coach in the NFL in Scarnecchia. There are also a lot of underrated guys on the coaching staff like O'Brien, Johnson, Patricia, S. O'Brien, and Fears. I love me some Crennel, Pleasant, and Smith, but the funny thing about those guys is that a lot of what those guys learned was under the tutelage of BB. The Patriots coaching staff could definitely use a guy like Crennel right now, but in no way would I take the Chiefs coaching staff over the Patriots.

I also think the Patriots roster is more talented at the moment than the Chiefs. I'd take every positional grouping on the Patriots offense over their counterparts on the Chiefs, and I'd take the D-Line as well.

QB- Laughably no contest
RB- No contest at the moment
WR/TE- Welker/Gronkowski/Hernandez> Bowe/Baldwin/Breaston
OL- Richardson is laughably bad, whereas nobody on the Pats is close to the same liability.
DL- I like the Patriots rotation better with Wilfork as the catalyst.
LB- Chiefs have a very large advantage here no question.
DB- Same, Flowers and Carr are beasts.

I don't usually feel this confident, and probably shouldn't because the Pats kind of suck this year and always blow a game or 2 like this, but I'm fairly confident they'll win.

[Don Vito]

I'm going tomorrow night. Back home for Thanksgiving break, get to see the Pats on Monday night with McCluster, K Lewis, and Powe as a bonus!

[bored of education]

Originally Posted by cmarq83

The points in bold I don't really agree with.

BB is such an enormous advantage over Haley and the Patriots have the best O-Line coach in the NFL in Scarnecchia. There are also a lot of underrated guys on the coaching staff like O'Brien, Johnson, Patricia, S. O'Brien, and Fears. I love me some Crennel, Pleasant, and Smith, but the funny thing about those guys is that a lot of what those guys learned was under the tutelage of BB. The Patriots coaching staff could definitely use a guy like Crennel right now, but in no way would I take the Chiefs coaching staff over the Patriots.

I also think the Patriots roster is more talented at the moment than the Chiefs. I'd take every positional grouping on the Patriots offense over their counterparts on the Chiefs, and I'd take the D-Line as well.

QB- Laughably no contest
RB- No contest at the moment
WR/TE- Welker/Gronkowski/Hernandez> Bowe/Baldwin/Breaston
OL- Richardson is laughably bad, whereas nobody on the Pats is close to the same liability.
DL- I like the Patriots rotation better with Wilfork as the catalyst.
LB- Chiefs have a very large advantage here no question.
DB- Same, Flowers and Carr are beasts.

I don't usually feel this confident, and probably shouldn't because the Pats kind of suck this year and always blow a game or 2 like this, but I'm fairly confident they'll win.

I will concede to a lot of that except this

WR/TE- Welker/Gronkowski/Hernandez> Bowe/Baldwin/Breaston

REALLY DUDE???? Without Brady Gronk/Hern are mediocre players. Without Brady Welker is just another guy. If you cannot see that then you are a blind homer.

Lets not be idiotic and think about taking those guys off the Pats roster and adding in Baldwin/Bowe and Breaston. I would take those three easily over your three. In a vacuum they are far more talented. It is impossible to see that right now since all you have ever seen are those three with Brady and Welker that one year with Cassel.

Bowe has been a top 5 WR since the start of last year with ****** ass Cassel and his 57 comp %. Give him Brady he would average year in year out 100, 1400 and 16. EASILY BRO! But his resurgence after the year in which he was suspended is 100% attributed to himself and Haley.

Why do I bother? Seriously. Anyways

If the Chiefs receive the ball and go up 3-0 after marching down the field and getting a FG I will GOOO BONKERZZZZZZZZZ since that would be the only way we will have a lead all night :/

[AntoinCD]

Originally Posted by bored of education

I will concede to a lot of that except this

WR/TE- Welker/Gronkowski/Hernandez> Bowe/Baldwin/Breaston

REALLY DUDE???? Without Brady Gronk/Hern are mediocre players. Without Brady Welker is just another guy. If you cannot see that then you are a blind homer.

Lets not be idiotic and think about taking those guys off the Pats roster and adding in Baldwin/Bowe and Breaston. I would take those three easily over your three. In a vacuum they are far more talented. It is impossible to see that right now since all you have ever seen are those three with Brady and Welker that one year with Cassel.

Bowe has been a top 5 WR since the start of last year with ****** ass Cassel and his 57 comp %. Give him Brady he would average year in year out 100, 1400 and 16. EASILY BRO! But his resurgence after the year in which he was suspended is 100% attributed to himself and Haley.

Why do I bother? Seriously. Anyways

If the Chiefs receive the ball and go up 3-0 after marching down the field and getting a FG I will GOOO BONKERZZZZZZZZZ since that would be the only way we will have a lead all night :/

I'll give you Hernandez and maybe concede that Welker is definitely a system guy(but even in Miami was better than mediocre), but to say Gronk would be mediocre in any other team is frankly ridiculous. This is a guy who would have been a sure fire first round pick had his medical checked out.

Brady actually does similar things with Gronk that he did with Randy Moss. If he's covered he's not really covered. Brady just throws it up there and lets him compete for the ball and 99 times out of 100 he'll come down with it.

Gronk has elite size, very good speed for someone his size, tremendous hands, a huge catching radius, is one of the best blocking TEs in the NFL and is a fantastic route runner. There is nothing mediocre about him.

[cmarq83]

Originally Posted by bored of education

I will concede to a lot of that except this

WR/TE- Welker/Gronkowski/Hernandez> Bowe/Baldwin/Breaston

REALLY DUDE???? Without Brady Gronk/Hern are mediocre players. Without Brady Welker is just another guy. If you cannot see that then you are a blind homer.

Lets not be idiotic and think about taking those guys off the Pats roster and adding in Baldwin/Bowe and Breaston. I would take those three easily over your three. In a vacuum they are far more talented. It is impossible to see that right now since all you have ever seen are those three with Brady and Welker that one year with Cassel.

Bowe has been a top 5 WR since the start of last year with ****** ass Cassel and his 57 comp %. Give him Brady he would average year in year out 100, 1400 and 16. EASILY BRO! But his resurgence after the year in which he was suspended is 100% attributed to himself and Haley.

Why do I bother? Seriously. Anyways

If the Chiefs receive the ball and go up 3-0 after marching down the field and getting a FG I will GOOO BONKERZZZZZZZZZ since that would be the only way we will have a lead all night :/

Welker is the top slot WR in the NFL by an enormous margin. Week in and week out he's a first down machine. You don't get 120 catches a year by accident. Sure there are guys who make the sexy plays down the field, but this guy does his damage every week no matter who is on him. His agility is off the charts, is an underrated blocker, has excellent hands, and is extremely tough after the catch. Bowe is a great receiver no doubt, but I'd take Welker over him and that isn't a homer argument to make.

In terms of the rest of the group, you have Gronk who if you haven't been watching has a stake in the best TE argument. Brady has an unreal rating throwing in his direction it's like 135. He'd be good regardless of who is throwing him the ball.

Hernandez has first round type talent as well.

So yes I stand by my argument that Welker/Gronkowski/Hernandez> Bowe/Breaston/Baldwin. They might not be quite as dangerous vertically as the Chiefs group, but as a unit I'd take them 10 out of 10 times.

[cmarq83]

I don't usually get all that homerish, but to say that 2 of the 4 players who are elite aren't because they have Brady throwing to them is just plain stupid.