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Old 11-20-2011, 01:55 PM    (permalink
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The OL is regressing as the year goes on. Not good. Rodgers is taking too many hits

looked a little shaken up after that last one to. Ugh. Sack up already, OL
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Old 11-20-2011, 02:32 PM    (permalink
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Well, looks like last monday was an anomaly. D looks soft again today. Another week, another opponent going for over 400 total yards on this D
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Old 11-20-2011, 02:35 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by BloodBrother View Post
Well, looks like last monday was an anomaly. D looks soft again today. Another week, another opponent going for over 400 total yards on this D
tackling has been awful
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Old 11-20-2011, 03:08 PM    (permalink
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that's an understatement. So often you'll see the DB's going high at Blount picking at the ball. FFS wrap his legs up already

As usual, TE's just running free over the middle for easy completions. Hopefully Detroit used up all their ammo in today's game and will be firing blanks no Thursday

Packers go banged up pretty good today. Bishop looked shaken up, Bulaga, Clay had a stinger looks like, Jennings got hit in th eknee on a freakin wr screen on the last play at the half(totally pointless play)...and unfortuantely Starks got twisted pretty badly

I hope he's not done for the year or the run game will go from mediocre to crap

Update: Starks carted to locker room in passenger seat which means its not a knee that ails him
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Old 11-20-2011, 03:58 PM    (permalink
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McCarthy said Starks has a knee sprain and will get more tests later this week

so...he has a torn ACL
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Old 11-20-2011, 05:04 PM    (permalink
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Almost lost Finley and Jennings at the end of the first half. I don't understand why they were running plays with 20 secs left when they were getting the ball back at the start of the 2nd half.

Rodgers needs to recognize his value to this team. Lowering his shoulder at the goal line was so ***** stupid. He didn't appear to take a bad shot but you never know what can happen. I could be crazy but he seemed a bit off after that.

Defense was greedy early on, going for the TO instead of just making the play that was in front of them.

Run defense settled down after that big run by Blount, but too many wide open receivers.
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Old 11-20-2011, 05:48 PM    (permalink
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For the record, finley said that Starks was walking around in the locker room and smiling...said he seemed fine

Didn't really like some of the playcalling today. That WR screen with like...10 seconds left in the 2nd was so pointless and just let to Jennings taking a shot to his legs

then, after Cobb returned it to the Bucs 45 in the 4th with about 5 minutes to go...up 9, they decide to pass on 1st down? At the very least, pass it downfield so if it is picked off it's like a punt. Tried another short pass

just a sloppy game for the Packers all around and they are lucky they got the win. Any excitement I had about the D went out the window again this week with this performance. So much for building off that MNF game.
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Old 11-20-2011, 08:19 PM    (permalink
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I was at the game today and came away unimpressed yet again.

Our secondary just can't see to get things straight. Somebody always seems to run free and make play. Alot of it is just simple stuff too, crossing routes, checkdowns, and "pick" plays.

I have to say I think the biggest difference is that we just simply aren't getting the pass rush that we've had in previous years. Guys can only cover for so long before being exposed. This game it seemed like we didn't move Matthews around and basically just did vanilla schemes as opposed to Monday night.



Say what you want about the offensive line too, I think those guys have played well considering they're missing Clifton out there. Newhouse has held his own and Bulaga has anchored the right side. However I think whats killing our protection is our unwillingness to run the football. We ran the shotgun A TON today and even after Cobb had a huge punt return late in the 4th quarter while we had the lead McCarthy still chose to keep passing which led to Rodgers INT. At some point you need to have faith in your run game. I don't see why Starks doesn't get the ball 15-18 times a game. Yes we have a QB playing phenominally but look what happened when he was off today. A better team could've capitalized and beaten us.



Yeah we won and when it mattered we came through, however we gave up 450 yards to a team struggling offensively! It just dumbfounds me and I'm really starting to question Capers and how he's utilizing the guys we have. How we just fall to bottom in defense after 1 season is shocking - especially considering we only lost 2 players - 1 of which was on IR!



Time to panic? Hardly. However at this point I expected to see corrections and adjustments to our defense and just simply hasn't happened. It just reminds me of the Superbowl against the Broncos where we came out like "we've been here before" and got walked all over.
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Old 11-20-2011, 08:59 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cvv84 View Post
I was at the game today and came away unimpressed yet again.

Our secondary just can't see to get things straight. Somebody always seems to run free and make play. Alot of it is just simple stuff too, crossing routes, checkdowns, and "pick" plays.

I have to say I think the biggest difference is that we just simply aren't getting the pass rush that we've had in previous years. Guys can only cover for so long before being exposed. This game it seemed like we didn't move Matthews around and basically just did vanilla schemes as opposed to Monday night.



Say what you want about the offensive line too, I think those guys have played well considering they're missing Clifton out there. Newhouse has held his own and Bulaga has anchored the right side. However I think whats killing our protection is our unwillingness to run the football. We ran the shotgun A TON today and even after Cobb had a huge punt return late in the 4th quarter while we had the lead McCarthy still chose to keep passing which led to Rodgers INT. At some point you need to have faith in your run game. I don't see why Starks doesn't get the ball 15-18 times a game. Yes we have a QB playing phenominally but look what happened when he was off today. A better team could've capitalized and beaten us.



Yeah we won and when it mattered we came through, however we gave up 450 yards to a team struggling offensively! It just dumbfounds me and I'm really starting to question Capers and how he's utilizing the guys we have. How we just fall to bottom in defense after 1 season is shocking - especially considering we only lost 2 players - 1 of which was on IR!



Time to panic? Hardly. However at this point I expected to see corrections and adjustments to our defense and just simply hasn't happened. It just reminds me of the Superbowl against the Broncos where we came out like "we've been here before" and got walked all over.
Good stuff cvv. I see it all the same way there...... I have a bad feeling that when we do lose, and it may be this week in Detroit, it will be a lot like that loss in 2008 at New Orleans on MNF. I expect someone like Stafford, or even Eli who is struggling early tonight, to carve us up.

Hell, Rivers, Freeman, Newton all carved us up much of the games.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodBrother View Post
The OL is regressing as the year goes on. Not good. Rodgers is taking too many hits

looked a little shaken up after that last one to. Ugh. Sack up already, OL
I really worry about Rodgers in Detroit.
We all know they (luck involved) knocked him in the head and out of the game there last year.

But their DL is mean, nasty, and dirty. Avril is dirty, so is Suh.
I have a bad feeling about this game Thursday.

People wonder where the pass rush on the DL has gone too, or our whole defense for that matter.... if anyone has watched the first half of this Eagles-Giants game, you've seen what/who we're really missing. I think we miss Cullen more than Collins.
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Old 11-20-2011, 09:12 PM    (permalink
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Responding to the thought on Capers, I have to agree. I am really starting to question his game planning. I am really sick of watching us sit in zone coverage with WRs running their routes free without anybody pressuring them. Can we please let our CBs do what they do best and play some press coverage???

This is part of the reason we have WRs and TEs running free all the time. If I were MM I would be having a sit down with Capers, I've heard the players come out and take accountability for what has been happening, but I haven't heard much from him. I've kept myself pretty composed every week telling myself it will get better, but I am starting to lose hope.
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Old 11-21-2011, 04:17 AM    (permalink
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Yep. Sick of this soft zone crap

anything 10-15 yards downfield is there with not a defender in sight. It's pitch and catch for them

the LBers are just hooooorrible in coverage and the lack of pass rush really exposes them in this area.
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Old 11-21-2011, 05:51 AM    (permalink
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Yeah our ILBers are terrible at coverage. Brandon Chillar wasn't perfect, but he was much better in this area.

I don't blame Capers at all. There are only so many ways he can blitz.
He's done em all already.... teams have seen em all.

What he needs is out of his control. He needs someone on the DL who can beat double teams occasionally and pressure QBs.

And he had that guy last year.

Any of you watch the MNF game last night, you saw him tormenting Eli Manning. That's not Capers fault. That one is on Ted apparently. A lot of you guys called it right away when you saw the relatively small contract he got from the Eagles, thought we could have absorbed that.

Tough to question Teddy these days, but nobody is perfect. It would appear that it might be one of his rare mistakes.
But then again, we're 10-0 for the 3rd time ever and the first 2, we won NFL championship.

Sadly, one of those two times, we then went to Detroit and got throttled for our first loss.
I fear this will happen again this Thursday and make Thanksgiving turkey taste like s*** afterwards.
But as long as we follow suit in the post-season like those other 2 seasons, we'll take it.
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Old 11-21-2011, 06:07 AM    (permalink
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Thanksgiving turkey will never taste like sh*t!...but a Pack loss would ruin the day
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Old 11-21-2011, 08:04 AM    (permalink
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A day, try a week.
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Old 11-21-2011, 12:17 PM    (permalink
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We didn't resign Cullen because it didn't look like a good long-term investment; so to evaluate whether it was the right move in the first year of the contract doesn't make a lot of sense.
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Old 11-21-2011, 12:19 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Mike88 View Post
Yeah our ILBers are terrible at coverage. Brandon Chillar wasn't perfect, but he was much better in this area.

I don't blame Capers at all. There are only so many ways he can blitz.
He's done em all already.... teams have seen em all.

What he needs is out of his control. He needs someone on the DL who can beat double teams occasionally and pressure QBs.

And he had that guy last year.

Any of you watch the MNF game last night, you saw him tormenting Eli Manning. That's not Capers fault. That one is on Ted apparently. A lot of you guys called it right away when you saw the relatively small contract he got from the Eagles, thought we could have absorbed that.

Tough to question Teddy these days, but nobody is perfect. It would appear that it might be one of his rare mistakes.
But then again, we're 10-0 for the 3rd time ever and the first 2, we won NFL championship.

Sadly, one of those two times, we then went to Detroit and got throttled for our first loss.
I fear this will happen again this Thursday and make Thanksgiving turkey taste like s*** afterwards.
But as long as we follow suit in the post-season like those other 2 seasons, we'll take it.
I've said it before, but Cullen settled for that deal. He thought he could get more on the open market, but once he got out there he found otherwise. I think TT maybe makes that deal he got from Philly, but by the time Cullen realized that was what he was going to get there was no going back.
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Old 11-21-2011, 02:11 PM    (permalink
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Excellent news regarding Starks. Tested out well, going to see if he can practice tomorrow. It's a knee and ankle injury/sprain/bruise or whatever(Mike just said knee sprain). He spoke to James prior to his presser and James said he feels like it's just usual soreness the day after a game. McCarthy isn't ruling him out for thursday, but said if he does play it would likely be in limited role

Jennings has a knee bruise...not worried about it all and is good to go

no other injuries of note
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Old 11-21-2011, 03:44 PM    (permalink
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I feel we should just sit Starks and let him heal up as much as possible...he's far more important to our success moving forward than the game on Thursday
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Old 11-21-2011, 04:18 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cvv84 View Post
I have to say I think the biggest difference is that we just simply aren't getting the pass rush that we've had in previous years. Guys can only cover for so long before being exposed. This game it seemed like we didn't move Matthews around and basically just did vanilla schemes as opposed to Monday night.
That is what is baffling me. On MNF he came out with the scheme we all want to see. They dominated the Vikings as they should have giving the current state of both teams. Then he comes back to the soft zone coverage and basically having Clay rush from the left side/or drop in coverage. It is becoming apparent to everyone what works and what doesn't. I know he doesn't want to be too obvious, but to stick with these zone defenses that are just hemorrhaging yards doesn't make sense.

I was also getting pissed watching guys continuously go for the strip instead of just making the tackle. I'm all for creating turnovers but you have to secure the tackle first.
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Old 11-21-2011, 04:30 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by princefielder28 View Post
I feel we should just sit Starks and let him heal up as much as possible...he's far more important to our success moving forward than the game on Thursday
If he is limited at all, you think we see a little of what Saine can do?
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Old 11-21-2011, 04:36 PM    (permalink
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If he is limited at all, you think we see a little of what Saine can do?
unless we have a big lead or another back gets hurt i doubt we see Saine in the game...Grant will get the majority of the carries (obviously) and I see Kuhn getting quite a few reps on third down, especially to pick up the interior pressure that the Lions can provide
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Old 11-21-2011, 05:31 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by TimmG6376 View Post
That is what is baffling me. On MNF he came out with the scheme we all want to see. They dominated the Vikings as they should have giving the current state of both teams. Then he comes back to the soft zone coverage and basically having Clay rush from the left side/or drop in coverage. It is becoming apparent to everyone what works and what doesn't. I know he doesn't want to be too obvious, but to stick with these zone defenses that are just hemorrhaging yards doesn't make sense.

I was also getting pissed watching guys continuously go for the strip instead of just making the tackle. I'm all for creating turnovers but you have to secure the tackle first.
Thats why I respect the Bears defense, those guys gang tackle everybody. And while 2 guys are making the tackle another guy comes and tries to rip the ball away.

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We didn't resign Cullen because it didn't look like a good long-term investment; so to evaluate whether it was the right move in the first year of the contract doesn't make a lot of sense.
And to point it into comparison, who would you rather have right now James Jones or Cullen Jenkins?

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Responding to the thought on Capers, I have to agree. I am really starting to question his game planning. I am really sick of watching us sit in zone coverage with WRs running their routes free without anybody pressuring them. Can we please let our CBs do what they do best and play some press coverage???

This is part of the reason we have WRs and TEs running free all the time. If I were MM I would be having a sit down with Capers, I've heard the players come out and take accountability for what has been happening, but I haven't heard much from him. I've kept myself pretty composed every week telling myself it will get better, but I am starting to lose hope.
Last week Woodson was openly saying that we needed to move Matthews around to generate pressure, and we did that against Minnesota. This week I was just baffeled at how Capers reverted to the same old vanilla tatics.

I just don't get it... Last week we were getting pressure all over that was without alot of pressure from our defensive line. I'm starting to think that Capers still believes that Jenkins is on our team.
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Old 11-21-2011, 05:51 PM    (permalink
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And to point it into comparison, who would you rather have right now James Jones or Cullen Jenkins?
Oh I would take Cullen in a heart beat... I was seriously disappointed we didn't resign him this off season. I know he has had some what of an injury history but the man played possessed when he did play.

I could get some flack for it but I think he was our best DLinemen last season. Yea Raji was great but look what happens when you put sub par guys around him he gets neutralized.
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Old 11-21-2011, 07:40 PM    (permalink
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Thought I read a few weeks ago somewhere that Capers teams start to get worse defensively after the first few years

IDK what is going on, maybe he's trying to save some stuff for the playoffs? I mean, the D is still creating a lot of turnovers and up to this point they are getting the stops when they need to most...but giving up all these huge chunks of yards and basically leaving the middle of the field open all the damn time is just playing with fire. The bad tackling gets a lot of the blame...just something this team is better at and yet they aren't wrapping guys up properly

Shields also has been too up and down this year. Started the year pretty meh, then got back into a groove until he idiotically tried to run the ball out of the end zone which exposed him to a big hit that lead to a concussion. Ever since he returned he's regressed again. His horrible tackling in the secondary is like shades of Darren Sharper. Dude straight up ran past Blount on his TD

The red zone D has been good, they are still doing good in important categories as far as opponents passer rating, completiong %, passed defensed etc... so we know the secondary is still fine. They need to ramp up the pressure AND fix the damn tackling

both can be done, but with each game going by they are losing time. Can't roll into the postseason with defense like this unless the O is guaranteed to put up 30+ points...which they have so far this year
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Old 11-21-2011, 11:51 PM    (permalink
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Oh I would take Cullen in a heart beat... I was seriously disappointed we didn't resign him this off season. I know he has had some what of an injury history but the man played possessed when he did play.

I could get some flack for it but I think he was our best DLinemen last season. Yea Raji was great but look what happens when you put sub par guys around him he gets neutralized.
Oh you woj't get any flack for it. There's no denying that.
Even missing a few games last year, I believe Cullen led all interior linemen in sacks last year.
Just watching him Sunday night was a reminder.

As far as it being a "long term investment" or not that decides if the move was good or bad, let's see how this season plays out first.
I don't think anyone would trade a Super Bowl this season for a better chance at one in 2 or 3 years.

With Rodgers and this offense, we should have a chance to contend for at least another half-decade.

I believe we will need Neal to step up to make that Jenkins deal look okay.
Neal does have it in him. He's got the ability to get to the Jenkins level. Not sure if he has the dur-ability or not. And not sure how long it will take him to develop to that level. Remember, Cullen was an undrafted guy out of one of the smaller Michigan schools. He wasn't great right away.
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