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Old 12-02-2011, 05:04 AM    (permalink
FUNBUNCHER
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Originally Posted by KCStud View Post
You put Barkley in KC with Bowe, Breaston, Baldwin, Moeaki and Charles at RB and the Chiefs are a playoff team.

Truth. All the pieces are there. KC needs a QB who can get the ball to the Chiefs playmakers.
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Old 12-02-2011, 05:26 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by KCStud View Post
You put Barkley in KC with Bowe, Breaston, Baldwin, Moeaki and Charles at RB and the Chiefs are a playoff team.
Only if Barkley and his receivers form a gang called "The B-Team."
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Old 12-02-2011, 11:58 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by keylime_5 View Post
too bad those are two things that it is impossible to improve upon.

Luck just so happens to have elite intangeables as well. There is a definite, conclusive gap between Luck and Barkley as prospects.
I totally agree, Luck's intangibles are off the charts and the gap between the 2 is significant as prospects. However, Barkley will have a shot at the next level to prove us both wrong because he is talented and there is always the chance that he could turn out to be great.
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Old 12-03-2011, 08:56 PM    (permalink
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Put me in the Barkley is at least as good as Luck category. I am not a fan of either team (or really, either player either). I do like that Luck plays in a pro-style offense where he is under center and throwing play action passes and such... But USC asks Barkley to do a lot more than Luck is required to do at Stanford, and yet he's having as good or better a season. If you watch a whole Stanford game you might see Luck do a straight drop back and look for a target more than 5-7 yards down the field maybe 1-4 times in the entire game.

It's run (60% of the time) and play action to fullbacks or TE's on at LEAST 50% of their passes. I like both guys, but I prefer Barkley over him.

Admittedly, Barkley has the better supporting cast as far as the WR's go, but still... I've seen one guy do it, and not the other guy.

Last thing I'd like to say is that I do find it amusing that when somebody comes out and says something like this, everybody recoils, because all the talking heads have been telling them for two years that Luck will be the #1 pick. And the next reaction is that the guy must be an idiot. As if the vast majority of the people that have been saying this even really know what they're talking about.

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Old 12-03-2011, 09:20 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
blech. matt barkley is marginally better then mark sanchez. i haven't seen a single thing in him that suggests a better than average nfl qb (ok, ok, "marginally better" was probably gross understatement in lieu of "average nfl qb").
Mark Sanchez is the worst starting QB in the NFL. You can't be an average NFL player and be just "marginally better" than him.
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Old 12-03-2011, 10:12 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
blech. matt barkley is marginally better then mark sanchez. i haven't seen a single thing in him that suggests a better than average nfl qb (ok, ok, "marginally better" was probably gross understatement in lieu of "average nfl qb").

At least we agreed on Gabbert

http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/...hlight=Gabbert
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Old 12-03-2011, 10:52 PM    (permalink
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i was there, so it's possible i was taking a pull/involved in a riot on his best play
possible? please, we all know you were tanked before even walking into Folsom.
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Old 12-04-2011, 09:00 PM    (permalink
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Seriously? How could anyone say that they would draft Barkley over Luck. Barkley is a complete product of the system he plays in. He's got a Kalil to protect him and two of the better WR in all of college football. Along with that he plays in an offense that gives him a ton of quick simple throws that are basically guaranteed completions. Not only would I take Luck over Barkley but I would also rather have RG3 or Landry Jones.
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Old 12-04-2011, 09:05 PM    (permalink
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Seriously? How could anyone say that they would draft Barkley over Luck. Barkley is a complete product of the system he plays in. He's got a Kalil to protect him and two of the better WR in all of college football. Along with that he plays in an offense that gives him a ton of quick simple throws that are basically guaranteed completions. Not only would I take Luck over Barkley but I would also rather have RG3 or Landry Jones.
The simple fact that Barkley is surrounded by talented players does not mean he is a product of the team. With that logic, Aaron Rodgers isn't an elite QB either.

As for the scheme, the two guys you mention play in schemes that provide even easier throws. RG3 and Jones have tons of quick, easy throws a game. Barkley's offense is much less of a concern than those two's.
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Old 12-04-2011, 09:06 PM    (permalink
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Seriously? How could anyone say that they would draft Barkley over Luck. Barkley is a complete product of the system he plays in. He's got a Kalil to protect him and two of the better WR in all of college football. Along with that he plays in an offense that gives him a ton of quick simple throws that are basically guaranteed completions. Not only would I take Luck over Barkley but I would also rather have RG3 or Landry Jones.
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Hey I guess we can each have our own opinion on the matter, to me Barkley pretty much makes Woods and Lee what they are. I just personally think that all of Griffin's accomplishments can be attributed to the system he plays in and the conference he plays in. And you can't tell me that Baylor isn't talented, they just put up over 48 points on Texas. Also Griffin's receivers make Griffin look a ton better than he actually is, if it weren't for them he would be pretty mediocre if you ask me.
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Old 12-04-2011, 09:08 PM    (permalink
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Seriously? How could anyone say that they would draft Barkley over Luck. Barkley is a complete product of the system he plays in. He's got a Kalil to protect him and two of the better WR in all of college football. Along with that he plays in an offense that gives him a ton of quick simple throws that are basically guaranteed completions. Not only would I take Luck over Barkley but I would also rather have RG3 or Landry Jones.
You realize that RG3 and Jones throw about 2,000 middle screens/bubble screens per game right?
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I wouldn't be sir prized if he passed McCoy on the depth chart. I think he might have a better arm and accurate arm then him from the highlights I thought. He also got some wheels too help us prepare for QB's as Wilson , RG3 and other runners etc.
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Old 12-04-2011, 09:09 PM    (permalink
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He's got a Kalil to protect him and two of the better WR in all of college football
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a situation like Matt Barkley where he is playing against top notch talent week in and week out without a single receiver to throw to he would be putting up about half the stats that he is.
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so who does Barkley have to throw to then???? SC hasn't had a real go to wide out since Dwayne Jarrett. All I'm saying is that Barkley has had a tremendous season with an extremely weak supporting cast.
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to me Barkley pretty much makes Woods and Lee what they are.
Something is uh ... EDIT:DAMNIT EE! ;)
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Old 12-04-2011, 09:12 PM    (permalink
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Although it would be the first time in the history of his internet, maybe he was convinced to change his mind.
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Old 12-04-2011, 09:14 PM    (permalink
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Although it would be the first time in the history of his internet, maybe he was convinced to change his mind.
Changing your mind is incredibly underrated as an evaluation tool, but it should take at least a bit more than like 20 minutes haha.
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Old 12-04-2011, 11:45 PM    (permalink
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Mark Sanchez is the worst starting QB in the NFL. You can't be an average NFL player and be just "marginally better" than him.
I disagree, Sanchez came to pro ball with very limited experience and may only be on the verge of being special. He may need another year to have a breakout season. Ryan fully believes Sanchez has the potential to be a Super Bowl winning QB.
When I look at the Jet's offense, I see a team that has a one sided offense with little talent at RB to make their offense more than 1 dimensional. Their rushing yards per game has fallen off substantially this year as Tomlinson's age takes its toll and Greene has proved he isn't a lead RB but only a backup type. I believe Ryan and the Jets will go all out at the draft to find a lead RB who is capable of being really effective in Ryan's offense and when that RB forces defenses to defend the run and opens up more passing lanes for Sanchez, he could have a real breakout year next season.
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Old 12-05-2011, 02:51 PM    (permalink
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Sanchez is still money in the playoffs. He ownz Carson Palmer.

I wouldn't have a problem with a team drafting Barkley #2 overall this year. #1 would require Barkley to put up some kind of ridiculous combine performance and an epic choke job by Luck.
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Old 12-05-2011, 03:34 PM    (permalink
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You realize that RG3 and Jones throw about 2,000 middle screens/bubble screens per game right?
You realize that RGIII throws 2,000 deep balls per game to receivers not named Robert Woods or Marquise Lee right?
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Old 12-05-2011, 03:46 PM    (permalink
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Put me in the Barkley is at least as good as Luck category. I am not a fan of either team (or really, either player either). I do like that Luck plays in a pro-style offense where he is under center and throwing play action passes and such... But USC asks Barkley to do a lot more than Luck is required to do at Stanford, and yet he's having as good or better a season. If you watch a whole Stanford game you might see Luck do a straight drop back and look for a target more than 5-7 yards down the field maybe 1-4 times in the entire game.

It's run (60% of the time) and play action to fullbacks or TE's on at LEAST 50% of their passes. I like both guys, but I prefer Barkley over him.

Admittedly, Barkley has the better supporting cast as far as the WR's go, but still... I've seen one guy do it, and not the other guy.

Last thing I'd like to say is that I do find it amusing that when somebody comes out and says something like this, everybody recoils, because all the talking heads have been telling them for two years that Luck will be the #1 pick. And the next reaction is that the guy must be an idiot. As if the vast majority of the people that have been saying this even really know what they're talking about.

there's waaaaaaay more to QB evaluation than what offense they run, who they are throwing to, and what they are asked to do. There is a ridiculous gap between Luck and Barkley as prospects. Maybe not as college QBs (you could debate which one is better as a college QB), but the fact is Luck is an elite rare breed of QB while it is arguable that Barkley is a franchise QB at the next level. He is not big (probably 6'1") and his athleticism and arm strength are nothing special. Let's make it clear that there have been a lot of QBs putting up big numbers at USC this decade (Palmer, Leinart, John David Booty, Sanchez) and only Palmer was really good as a pro at one time. Sanchez is mediocre and he has better physical tools than Barkley. I laugh everytime I see this thread title on the main forum page. Right now it would be a much more interesting discussion arguing RGIII vs Barkley for 2nd best QB prospect behind Luck right now.
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Old 12-05-2011, 05:53 PM    (permalink
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there's waaaaaaay more to QB evaluation than what offense they run, who they are throwing to, and what they are asked to do. There is a ridiculous gap between Luck and Barkley as prospects. Maybe not as college QBs (you could debate which one is better as a college QB), but the fact is Luck is an elite rare breed of QB while it is arguable that Barkley is a franchise QB at the next level. He is not big (probably 6'1") and his athleticism and arm strength are nothing special. Let's make it clear that there have been a lot of QBs putting up big numbers at USC this decade (Palmer, Leinart, John David Booty, Sanchez) and only Palmer was really good as a pro at one time. Sanchez is mediocre and he has better physical tools than Barkley. I laugh everytime I see this thread title on the main forum page. Right now it would be a much more interesting discussion arguing RGIII vs Barkley for 2nd best QB prospect behind Luck right now.
how does this favor luck? his arm is nothing special either.
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Old 12-05-2011, 06:03 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by keylime_5 View Post
there's waaaaaaay more to QB evaluation than what offense they run, who they are throwing to, and what they are asked to do. There is a ridiculous gap between Luck and Barkley as prospects. Maybe not as college QBs (you could debate which one is better as a college QB), but the fact is Luck is an elite rare breed of QB while it is arguable that Barkley is a franchise QB at the next level. He is not big (probably 6'1") and his athleticism and arm strength are nothing special. Let's make it clear that there have been a lot of QBs putting up big numbers at USC this decade (Palmer, Leinart, John David Booty, Sanchez) and only Palmer was really good as a pro at one time. Sanchez is mediocre and he has better physical tools than Barkley. I laugh everytime I see this thread title on the main forum page. Right now it would be a much more interesting discussion arguing RGIII vs Barkley for 2nd best QB prospect behind Luck right now.
I agree with every single word in this post.

Soybean, Luck's arm isn't special, true. The way he manipulates space in the pocket is special. That has always been his best attribute, and it's not one that people easily quantify.

Now...what about Matt Barkley is special? He's the Joseph Addai of QB prospects. Pretty solid at everything, doesn't do anything particularly well (RZ accuracy is pretty damn superb, though - that's his best attribute by far), and he can be a hell of a contributing piece to your offense, but will likely never be the foundation. I look at him and I see Matt Hasselback.

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Old 12-05-2011, 06:38 PM    (permalink
SickwithIt1010
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I agree with every single word in this post.

Soybean, Luck's arm isn't special, true. The way he manipulates space in the pocket is special. That has always been his best attribute, and it's not one that people easily quantify.

Now...what about Matt Barkley is special? He's the Joseph Addai of QB prospects. Pretty solid at everything, doesn't do anything particularly well (RZ accuracy is pretty damn superb, though - that's his best attribute by far), and he can be a hell of a contributing piece to your offense, but will likely never be the foundation. I look at him and I see Matt Hasselback.

If Matt Hasselbeck ever stayed healthy he would have had a pretty solid career lol.
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I wouldn't be sir prized if he passed McCoy on the depth chart. I think he might have a better arm and accurate arm then him from the highlights I thought. He also got some wheels too help us prepare for QB's as Wilson , RG3 and other runners etc.
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Old 12-05-2011, 06:39 PM    (permalink
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You realize that RGIII throws 2,000 deep balls per game to receivers not named Robert Woods or Marquise Lee right?
Kendall Wright may very well be a 1st rounder? lol.
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I wouldn't be sir prized if he passed McCoy on the depth chart. I think he might have a better arm and accurate arm then him from the highlights I thought. He also got some wheels too help us prepare for QB's as Wilson , RG3 and other runners etc.
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Old 12-05-2011, 06:41 PM    (permalink
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If Matt Hasselbeck ever stayed healthy he would have had a pretty solid career lol.
I don't disagree with that. But he also wasn't ever the foundation of that Seattle offense. The power running game was, and he complimented it perfectly.

Again, I'm not trying to say Barkley is awful. But you have to clearly distinguish whether a guy is projected to be a foundation player or if he's just a complimentary piece.
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Old 12-07-2011, 11:02 AM    (permalink
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Here's an interesting podcast tidbit from National Football Post

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Draft-Talk-120.html

(I stole this summary from a Browns board)

Some sound bites on Tannehill:
- Both analysts feel Tannehill will leap frog Barkley by draft time.
- Agree Barkley is probably a better prospect today - but Tannehill's ceiling is much higher.
- Concerned with Barkley's height - suspect 6'2, and limited physically
- Spoke to some of RT's issues this season was a combination of coaching on its way out, Fuller's bad season, and his development.
- Love RT's arm, smarts and intelligence - while agree needs development, but in the right system could be a top NFL QB.

Some sound bites on Kendall Wright:
- Explosive
- Should sneak into the first round - potentially the first half
- Shifty, polished route runner, has developed well from last year, has learned how to beat press coverage
- Can make impact outside and in the slot
- Comparisons: Mike Wallace, Steve Smith
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Old 12-07-2011, 11:43 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keylime_5 View Post
Here's an interesting podcast tidbit from National Football Post

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Draft-Talk-120.html

(I stole this summary from a Browns board)

Some sound bites on Tannehill:
- Both analysts feel Tannehill will leap frog Barkley by draft time.
- Agree Barkley is probably a better prospect today - but Tannehill's ceiling is much higher.
- Concerned with Barkley's height - suspect 6'2, and limited physically
- Spoke to some of RT's issues this season was a combination of coaching on its way out, Fuller's bad season, and his development.
- Love RT's arm, smarts and intelligence - while agree needs development, but in the right system could be a top NFL QB.

Some sound bites on Kendall Wright:
- Explosive
- Should sneak into the first round - potentially the first half
- Shifty, polished route runner, has developed well from last year, has learned how to beat press coverage
- Can make impact outside and in the slot
- Comparisons: Mike Wallace, Steve Smith
Tannehill just didnt really impress me at all this year.
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I wouldn't be sir prized if he passed McCoy on the depth chart. I think he might have a better arm and accurate arm then him from the highlights I thought. He also got some wheels too help us prepare for QB's as Wilson , RG3 and other runners etc.
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