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Old 12-03-2011, 07:07 PM    (permalink
bearsfan_51
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If Penn State gets the death penalty or not I think they are completely done with being a major player in football. No Joe Paterno and the program is tarnished worse than any other school has been tarnished. It will get worse. The majority of the victims were black. As more details emerge and the longer the trials go on, it's going to be seen that an out of touch white leadership knowingly did nothing because the kids were black. Would McQueary have done more or was the red haired white dude not concerned enough about the black kid? It might not be fair, but it will appear to be so. If I were a recruit, there is no way in hell that I'd trust Penn State over a Michigan or Pitt. So black recruits should be super pissed. Other recruits won't trust them either and won't want to be associated with a program that's losing sponsorships and with a degree that's losing internship positions with outside companies.

It just isn't worth going there unless you live close by and don't have other options. The Big Ten might as well get rid of them because Indiana already sucks and they don't need that many horrible programs in their conference.
This is full of so much ridiculousness.
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Old 12-04-2011, 12:55 PM    (permalink
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If Penn State gets the death penalty or not I think they are completely done with being a major player in football. No Joe Paterno and the program is tarnished worse than any other school has been tarnished. It will get worse. The majority of the victims were black. As more details emerge and the longer the trials go on, it's going to be seen that an out of touch white leadership knowingly did nothing because the kids were black. Would McQueary have done more or was the red haired white dude not concerned enough about the black kid? It might not be fair, but it will appear to be so. If I were a recruit, there is no way in hell that I'd trust Penn State over a Michigan or Pitt. So black recruits should be super pissed. Other recruits won't trust them either and won't want to be associated with a program that's losing sponsorships and with a degree that's losing internship positions with outside companies.

It just isn't worth going there unless you live close by and don't have other options. The Big Ten might as well get rid of them because Indiana already sucks and they don't need that many horrible programs in their conference.
I agree, they should dump Penn St., they are a liability to the Big 10 image and I think it will be a long time before they are able to recruit successfully again.
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Old 12-05-2011, 04:04 PM    (permalink
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This is full of so much ridiculousness.
Nothing ridiculous. Cold precision.

If you want to counter with, "you mean to say that people will magically think of Penn State as racist U because the white leadership failed to protect the victims who happened to be black?"

I would say yes. Give it time and two long and drawn out trials. I don't think that there is a lawyer in the world who could prevent Penn State from appearing as "old, out of touch, racists". It wouldn't even take any effort from the prosecutor, just basic perception.

Victims. Some are black. People on the stand are white. Racist. Boom.

Lawyers don't even have to say it, but people will think it. People will ask, "why wasn't more done." What answer will they have? "We didn't think it was that bad?" So it isn't bad to have a kid be raped in the shower? Why isn't it bad for this kid to be raped? ....Out of touch, old boy racists.

Cue mega lawsuits and full public outrage over the lack of action by Penn State.

All it took was for one jury testimony and one stupid campus protest for companies to pull funding from ESPN from sponsoring the game and to deny internships to just normal students. Imagine when there's more actual court testimony and another media circus driving things?

Why would a recruit bother going to that school instead of any other nonchildrapetainted school? This is central Pennsylvania, not Los Angelas. Why endure potential bans when you can just play somewhere else?

Why should the Big 10 bother with a nonprofitable school that sponsers don't want to sponser?
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Old 12-05-2011, 04:20 PM    (permalink
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If you want to counter with, "you mean to say that people will magically think of Penn State as racist U because the white leadership failed to protect the victims who happened to be black?"

I would say yes. Give it time and two long and drawn out trials. I don't think that there is a lawyer in the world who could prevent Penn State from appearing as "old, out of touch, racists". It wouldn't even take any effort from the prosecutor, just basic perception.
I don't think you have any idea how most Americans view race. At all.

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Lawyers don't even have to say it, but people will think it. People will ask, "why wasn't more done." What answer will they have? "We didn't think it was that bad?" So it isn't bad to have a kid be raped in the shower? Why isn't it bad for this kid to be raped? ....Out of touch, old boy racists.
Nobody is viewing this as an issue of race. I haven't even heard that the kids were black.


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Why would a recruit bother going to that school instead of any other nonchildrapetainted school? This is central Pennsylvania, not Los Angelas. Why endure potential bans when you can just play somewhere else?
Because it's still a premier football program. This will undoubtedly hurt them. It should hurt them. But it's not going to render them to be a Rutgers-level program. Recruits are going to go to Penn State for the same reason they always would: to be a part of a huge program in a major conference, to play in front of 100,000 fans, to get good coaching, and to play in the NFL. I honestly don't think many of them will think about whether or not a kid was molested at that school, and you are the only person on earth that I'm aware of that has said anything about race.
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Old 12-05-2011, 04:29 PM    (permalink
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I have heard people bring up race. But they aren't legitimate journalists. They are the people who bring up race every time no matter what.
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Old 12-05-2011, 04:49 PM    (permalink
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You guys are seeing what I say, but are not listening or thinking it through enough. Plus you are frankly baited into taking an easy race argument.

I wasn't focusing on what individuals can read of the story and view it through rational lenses and determine on their own if a story is racist or not. This is a watercooler story that will be passed down at the office and will be interpreted by the same mob that currently thinks that Fred is funny and thinks that MTV reality shows are what real life is supposed to be like.

And I'm 27 year old 50/50 White/Native in Middle America. I can speak for quite a bit of America.

*And when I was saying "thinking it through". I mean a long the lines of how much Penn State will be impacted by this. Say "Barack Obama". Plenty of people in America think of "Black President" than just "President".
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Old 12-05-2011, 06:35 PM    (permalink
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You guys are seeing what I say, but are not listening or thinking it through enough. Plus you are frankly baited into taking an easy race argument.

I wasn't focusing on what individuals can read of the story and view it through rational lenses and determine on their own if a story is racist or not. This is a watercooler story that will be passed down at the office and will be interpreted by the same mob that currently thinks that Fred is funny and thinks that MTV reality shows are what real life is supposed to be like.

And I'm 27 year old 50/50 White/Native in Middle America. I can speak for quite a bit of America.

*And when I was saying "thinking it through". I mean a long the lines of how much Penn State will be impacted by this. Say "Barack Obama". Plenty of people in America think of "Black President" than just "President".
I'm sorry, but I'm not going to allow someone who thinks that "along" is written "a long" to question my thinking process.

You're just really off-base, but that will only be proven through time. Wait it out.
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Old 12-05-2011, 07:24 PM    (permalink
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Old 12-06-2011, 12:40 PM    (permalink
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CBS' Brett McMurphy: BREAKING: Sources tell @CBSSports Big East will add Boise, San Diego St, Houston, UCF, SMU Wed. Will join league in 2013
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Old 12-06-2011, 12:55 PM    (permalink
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Man, that just kills the MWC and CUSA.
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Old 12-06-2011, 01:36 PM    (permalink
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Man, that just kills the MWC and CUSA.
Not to mention the ridiculousness of the big EAST adding a school that is in a city that is LITERALLY on the west coast... touches the ******* pacific ocean...
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Old 12-06-2011, 01:45 PM    (permalink
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Not to mention the ridiculousness of the big EAST adding a school that is in a city that is LITERALLY on the west coast... touches the ******* pacific ocean...
Maybe they can just go official with the name "Big Least".
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Old 12-06-2011, 02:10 PM    (permalink
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It'll be interesting to see if this will be enough to keep an automatic BCS bid with the Big East. Not exactly how that process works, but that's still a pretty weak conference.
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Old 12-06-2011, 02:15 PM    (permalink
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I'm not defending the move but an argument could be made the Big East football conference got much better adding those teams and losing Pitt and Syracuse. I still hate it though and am still wishing someone invited us already.
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Old 12-06-2011, 02:33 PM    (permalink
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CBS' Brett McMurphy: BREAKING: Sources tell @CBSSports Big East will add Boise, San Diego St, Houston, UCF, SMU Wed. Will join league in 2013
After this last debacle I am happy to see this happening. Prior to the BCS mess that left both TCU and Boise St out in the cold I was totally opposed to a team from Idaho or California is in the Big East but now I could care less. For a conference that was in panic mode with Pitt and Syracuse leaving this is a pretty nice consolation prize. Boise is one of the premiere teams in the country, SDSU has been solid, Houston was poised to be a BCS buster this season and has a prolific offense (but Sumlin's potential departure hurts them), UCF is a solid program w/ a win over an SEC team last bowl season and SMU also provides an exciting offense (again assuming June Jones sticks around).

It's a roll of the dice especially with both June Jones and Sumlin rumored to be leaving for the Az St and A&M jobs respectively but the Big East got the crown jewel in Boise. They expanded the conference and actually added teams.

The system is broken and now Boise is going to do the smart thing and join the an automatic qualifying conference. The system currently in place has led to this IMO.

It will be nice to have both Boise St (Big East) and TCU (Big 12) in automatic qualifying conferences.
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Old 12-06-2011, 03:46 PM    (permalink
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With all these schools entering in 2013, does that make it pretty likely teams like Pitt and WVU will be out sooner than the 2014 they talked about before.

I definitely like the expansion though. Surprised the Big East seems like it pulled this one together after it appeared they were all but dead.
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Old 12-06-2011, 04:25 PM    (permalink
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Keep on eye on Big 12 expansion. That was a big topic during their last meeting. All indications seem to be that Cincinnati and Louisville are going to be offered sometime soon.

Also something to think about - the Big 12 likely got screwed by not having a conference championship game this year.

Hypothetically, if they would have twelve teams with Oklahoma State in the South division (OSU, OU, Texas, Texas Tech, TCU, Baylor) they would have played the champion of the North division (Kansas State out of a division of KSU, KU, WVU, Louisville, Cincy, ISU).

If OSU would have defeated Kansas State in a conference championship game to finish 12-1 they likely would have jumped Alabama. Hard to envision them not jumping Bama after having defeated OU then KSU.

That also could have propelled Baylor into a Sugar Bowl game vs Michigan. How difficult would it have been to sell RGIII vs Denard Robinson? Tickets would've been a hot commodity.

So, and very hypothetically, the Big 12 screwed themselves out of 17 million by not having a conference championship game. Not to mention the money they would've earned by having a CCG in Jerry World with K-State vs Okie State.
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Old 12-07-2011, 02:51 AM    (permalink
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Air Force is considering staying the Mountain West
http://www.gazette.com/sports/expand...marinatto.html

If AFA doesn't go to the Big East then it's unlikely that Navy goes to the Big East and the conference still doesn't have 12 teams.

I've heard Temple is being considered if AFA doesn't join but all the Owls do is off-set Navy joining based on geography.

I'd invite Tulsa then Temple.
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Old 12-07-2011, 04:58 PM    (permalink
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NEW YORK – With the Mountain West and Conference USA losing at least five members to the Big East, those two leagues are now looking at an all-sports merger instead of a full-scale football expansion as originally planned, sources told CBSSports.com.

Conference USA and the Mountain West initially planned to combine into a separate football-only league with between 20 and 24 members and conducted an Oct. 15 press conference to announce the news. The winners from C-USA and the Mountain West would meet in a playoff with, they hoped, the winner earning a BCS bowl berth.

http://brett-mcmurphy.blogs.cbssport...32522/33745889
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Old 12-07-2011, 06:44 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by diabsoule View Post
Keep on eye on Big 12 expansion. That was a big topic during their last meeting. All indications seem to be that Cincinnati and Louisville are going to be offered sometime soon.

Also something to think about - the Big 12 likely got screwed by not having a conference championship game this year.

Hypothetically, if they would have twelve teams with Oklahoma State in the South division (OSU, OU, Texas, Texas Tech, TCU, Baylor) they would have played the champion of the North division (Kansas State out of a division of KSU, KU, WVU, Louisville, Cincy, ISU).

If OSU would have defeated Kansas State in a conference championship game to finish 12-1 they likely would have jumped Alabama. Hard to envision them not jumping Bama after having defeated OU then KSU.

That also could have propelled Baylor into a Sugar Bowl game vs Michigan. How difficult would it have been to sell RGIII vs Denard Robinson? Tickets would've been a hot commodity.

So, and very hypothetically, the Big 12 screwed themselves out of 17 million by not having a conference championship game. Not to mention the money they would've earned by having a CCG in Jerry World with K-State vs Okie State.
I agree, it really cost the Big 12 $$$ and position in the polls by canceling their league playoff game. Wrong year to do it.

As for the Big East, they'll have a East Division and a West Division so traveled will be controlled and if time has shown anything, it's that recruiting for the new teams will pick up considerably now that they are in a BCS conference. It wasn't too long ago that Cincinnati and Louisville played in the Missouri Valley conference and now they have a place in the Big 12.
Also, didn't Utah play in the Mountain West, yet finished in 2nd place in the Pac 12 North Division in year one. Just maybe, the major conferences aren't as far ahead of these schools as they would like you to believe.
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Old 12-07-2011, 06:57 PM    (permalink
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https://twitter.com/#!/Mengus22/stat...49604367679488

Air Force will be staying in the Mountain West. That could very well mean Navy will spurn Big East membership as well.
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Old 12-08-2011, 10:00 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diabsoule View Post
Keep on eye on Big 12 expansion. That was a big topic during their last meeting. All indications seem to be that Cincinnati and Louisville are going to be offered sometime soon.

Also something to think about - the Big 12 likely got screwed by not having a conference championship game this year.

Hypothetically, if they would have twelve teams with Oklahoma State in the South division (OSU, OU, Texas, Texas Tech, TCU, Baylor) they would have played the champion of the North division (Kansas State out of a division of KSU, KU, WVU, Louisville, Cincy, ISU).

If OSU would have defeated Kansas State in a conference championship game to finish 12-1 they likely would have jumped Alabama. Hard to envision them not jumping Bama after having defeated OU then KSU.

That also could have propelled Baylor into a Sugar Bowl game vs Michigan. How difficult would it have been to sell RGIII vs Denard Robinson? Tickets would've been a hot commodity.

So, and very hypothetically, the Big 12 screwed themselves out of 17 million by not having a conference championship game. Not to mention the money they would've earned by having a CCG in Jerry World with K-State vs Okie State.
If the Big 12 does add Louisville and Cincy, I'd much rather see more balance in the alignment of the 2 divisions (even though it make a little less sense geographically), however you probably have it spot on.

Division A

Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
West Virginia
Louisville
Cincinnati
Iowa State

Division B

Texas
TCU
Texas Tech
Baylor
Kansas
Kansas State
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Old 12-08-2011, 03:14 PM    (permalink
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Ummmm Wow. B1G issues a pretty strongly worded press release concerning PSU. Basically, this is a warning shot across the bow. Legal posturing in case crap gets really really bad at PSU.

PSU would do better in the Big East anyways.

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Park Ridge, Ill. – The Big Ten Council of Presidents/Chancellors (COP/C) held its regularly scheduled meeting this week with several items on its Agenda, including the series of events recently unfolding at Penn State University.

With regard to the Penn State matter, the Big Ten office issued the following statement on behalf of the COP/C:

The Big Ten Presidents and Chancellors express their sincere concern for any harm done to innocent young victims and their families. Protection of our children is one of society’s most central responsibilities and institutions of higher education should be particularly vigilant. We are committed to examining our own institutions to assure that effective measures are taken to assure the safety of children on our campuses.

It has been approximately one month since the initial release of the Grand Jury report in the Penn State matter and a number of federal, state and institutional investigations have been launched. While it is premature to reach any conclusions regarding civil or criminal liability arising out of these events, there does appear to be sufficient information to raise significant concerns as to whether a concentration of power in a single individual or program may have threatened or eroded institutional control of intercollegiate athletics at Penn State.

As a result, the COP/C has determined that:

· It will gather and review the facts arising out of the allegations in the Grand Jury report that pertain to matters of institutional control, ethical conduct and/or other compliance related issues;

· It will request from Penn State University and the NCAA that Big Ten legal counsel be allowed to participate in the investigations or reviews, as the case may be, being conducted by Penn State and the NCAA as pertain to these issues; and

· It will reserve the right to impose sanctions, corrective or other disciplinary measures in the event that adverse findings are made in the areas of institutional control, ethical conduct and/or other Conference related matters.

In addition, the COP/C discussed the imperative of maintaining the public’s trust in the integrity of its member institutions and, in earning and deserving this trust, the importance of asserting each institution’s control over its intercollegiate athletics programs. The COP/C recognized and acknowledged that from time to time its institutions have failed to maintain the proper control of their athletics programs and that whenever this occurs at one institution in the Conference, due to the common bonds and shared values of the members of the Big Ten, each other member of the Conference is impacted. Accordingly, the COP/C has directed the Conference to initiate an immediate review of the fundamental issues and systems affecting intercollegiate athletics, including the serious issues relating to the institutional control of athletics. It intends for this review to lead to the consideration of a common set of “stress tests” or other criteria that could be applied by the Conference to its member institutions (a) to insure that each member is responsible and accountable to the collective membership of the Conference for the control and operation of its intercollegiate athletics programs as well as (b) to prevent anyone, whether a trustee, administrator, faculty member, athletic director, coach, booster or otherwise, from eroding the effectiveness of an institution’s practices and procedures designed to protect the institution’s integrity and control over its intercollegiate athletic programs. The COP/C intends for the review to be completed and for the proposed standards, stress tests and other criteria, along with the proposed enforcement procedures and penalties, to be presented to it for consideration at a special meeting to be held in spring 2012.
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Old 12-08-2011, 06:39 PM    (permalink
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I think the Big 10 has some real concerns that it could be named in some of the suits arising from these incidents and is setting up some protection in case they are named.
No doubt, they may also want to be seen as taking some positive action because covering up sex scandals at member universities may be a bigger issue than we all want to admit. i.e. students raped on campus by teachers or other fellow students that were covered up to protect the good name of the institution. This could easily explode if such accusers suddenly stream forward in large #'s. This scandal may just be the tip of the iceberg.
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Old 12-14-2011, 05:34 PM    (permalink
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Navy plans on going to the Big East after 2013.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoot...ot-for-a-while
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