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Old 12-11-2011, 10:32 AM    (permalink
bearsfan_51
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Originally Posted by sweater-vest_mafia View Post
It's not wrong and I see the author's point, however, I don't agree with it; even though I hate Gabbert as well.

You can argue that improving the roster is the GM's job and that improving the QB position might be his most important. However, sunken costs isn't the only argument against it.

A. a greater net gain for the team can probably be found elsewhere, adding to another position such as receiver.

B. Drafting even a good QB into this situation and starting him is a terrible idea.

I wouldn't be absolutely opposed to the idea of drafting a QB I just think that the Jags might be one of the biggest stages set up for a young QB to fail as is out there right now.
I don't think you could possibly have a greater net gain than replacing Gabbert. There's absolutely no question that quarterback is the most important position on the football team. You win and lose more games from that single position than any other and it's not even close.

That's fact #1, and it's indisputable. The second question that needs to be asked is if Gabbert is the worst starter on the Jaguars. In my opinion he is. Even if he's not, I think you win more games by replacing him than anyone else.

This situation parallels the Carolina Panthers situation last year, and the Panthers absolutely made the right choice.

Let's not dilute the fact that Gabbert was awful simply by blaming his supporting cast. If you watched even one Jaguars game this year you'd see someone who is absolutely terrible in every conceivable way.
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Old 12-11-2011, 10:37 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bearsfan_51 View Post
Exactly. Drafting Gabbert was a mistake (in my opinion). You don't compound that mistake by forcing yourself to live with it for the next 3-4 years.

Whoever is coaching the Jaguars next year won't have picked Gabbert, and the new owner won't have spent a single dime on him. I think it's misguided to think that anyone in the new Jaguars organization has any loyalty to him.
I think its misguided to think the GM that picked him, Gene Smith, would give up on him. He won't, he likes him and won't admit to failure.
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Old 12-11-2011, 10:39 AM    (permalink
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I don't think you could possibly have a greater net gain than replacing Gabbert. There's absolutely no question that quarterback is the most important position on the football team. You win and lose more games from that single position than any other and it's not even close.

That's fact #1, and it's indisputable. The second question that needs to be asked is if Gabbert is the worst starter on the Jaguars. In my opinion he is. Even if he's not, I think you win more games by replacing him than anyone else.

This situation parallels the Carolina Panthers situation last year, and the Panthers absolutely made the right choice.

Let's not dilute the fact that Gabbert was awful simply by blaming his supporting cast. If you watched even one Jaguars game this year you'd see someone who is absolutely terrible in every conceivable way.
I have and a definitely hate Gabbert.

However, as a GM I would improve the rest of my team first, it's not like your going to get Luck here and Barkley returns to school in my mind.

I love me some RGIII and maybe he could help but I think he will still need some development and throwing him into that situation could seriously stunt him.

Who else would you get? Jones? you might be looking at another Gabbert there

I'm not opposed to the idea, I just don't really see it working out if they go that route
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Old 12-11-2011, 11:30 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bearsfan_51 View Post
Was it too early to give up on Jimmy Clausen? If not, it's not too early to give up on Blaine Gabbert. (I know, Clausen was a 2nd round pick, but still)

When someone is terrible, they're just terrible. You can wait 3 more years to figure that out, or you can move on.

Had Carolina passed on Newton because they had Clausen that would have been a terrible mistake.
I think it was too early to give up on Clausen. He'll get another shot in the league and he'll have a reasonable career in the right offence. The difference is that Clausen was a 2nd round pick, he's making peanuts (relatively). Gabbert was a top 10 pick.
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Old 12-11-2011, 11:32 AM    (permalink
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Panthers are obviously in a position to trade down. Could easily see them swapping with Cleveland with RG3 right there then snagging Kirkpatrick at #9. How high Kirkpatrick goes almost entirely depends on his combine numbers.

In that scenario, the Seahawks likely get Coples and everyone's happy because no one's left drafting Landry Jones in the first round.
Took the words right out of my mouth. In that situation the Panthers trade down to someone that loves RG3. I'm not a huge fan of Kirkpatrick or Claiborne, but they're better selections than Coples.

I'd take a long, hard look at DeCastro if the Panthers do trade down. They need defensive help, sure, but DeCastro would really solidify that O-line to one of the best in the league.
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Old 12-11-2011, 12:12 PM    (permalink
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Pro Football Weekly on #Jaguars in 2012 draft: "Gene Smith would not hesitate to select someone like Matt Barkley, if Barkley is (BPA)."
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Old 12-11-2011, 12:32 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Shane P. Hallam View Post
I think its misguided to think the GM that picked him, Gene Smith, would give up on him. He won't, he likes him and won't admit to failure.
So Gene Smith is going to hire a coach and make him start Gabbert?
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Old 12-11-2011, 12:40 PM    (permalink
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So Gene Smith is going to hire a coach and make him start Gabbert?
Wouldn't be the first GM to do such a thing
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Miller is visual sex on the field.
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Old 12-11-2011, 12:44 PM    (permalink
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A league source expressed skepticism to ESPN Florida that Blaine Gabbert has what it takes to make it in the pros.
"The guy sees ghosts in the pocket," said the source. "I'm not sure if you can teach courage." ESPN Florida's Charlie Bernstein believes it's a "real possibility" that the Jaguars might quickly cut their losses with Gabbert and drafted a first-round quarterback for a second straight year. Added Greg Cosell of NFL Films recently, "I will say unequivocally that (Gabbert) will not make it in this league as a starting NFL quarterback."

rotoworld.com
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Old 12-11-2011, 12:48 PM    (permalink
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A league source expressed skepticism to ESPN Florida that Blaine Gabbert has what it takes to make it in the pros.
"The guy sees ghosts in the pocket," said the source. "I'm not sure if you can teach courage." ESPN Florida's Charlie Bernstein believes it's a "real possibility" that the Jaguars might quickly cut their losses with Gabbert and drafted a first-round quarterback for a second straight year. Added Greg Cosell of NFL Films recently, "I will say unequivocally that (Gabbert) will not make it in this league as a starting NFL quarterback."

rotoworld.com
I would be seeing ghosts in the pocket too if I had one of the worst offensive lines in the league and undoubtedly the worst wide receiver corps. So let's see, a rookie from a spread college system is unexpectedly thrust into action a year before he was supposed to be with no protection and no weapons to throw to. Oh, and they fire his coach halfway through the season too. And you wonder why the kid is struggling. Talk about Bad QB Handling 101.
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Old 12-11-2011, 12:52 PM    (permalink
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I would be seeing ghosts in the pocket too if I had one of the worst offensive lines in the league and undoubtedly the worst wide receiver corps. So let's see, a rookie from a spread college system is unexpectedly thrust into action a year before he was supposed to be with no protection and no weapons to throw to. Oh, and they fire his coach halfway through the season too. And you wonder why the kid is struggling. Talk about Bad QB Handling 101.
My thoughts exactly, and I really Don't see how much more could you can gain from thrusting another QB into the same situation
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Miller is visual sex on the field.
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Old 12-11-2011, 12:58 PM    (permalink
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I would be seeing ghosts in the pocket too if I had one of the worst offensive lines in the league and undoubtedly the worst wide receiver corps. So let's see, a rookie from a spread college system is unexpectedly thrust into action a year before he was supposed to be with no protection and no weapons to throw to. Oh, and they fire his coach halfway through the season too. And you wonder why the kid is struggling. Talk about Bad QB Handling 101.
I agree. The whole thing has been very poorly handled by the Jags. Gabbert was put into a hopeless situation and set up for failure.
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Old 12-11-2011, 01:05 PM    (permalink
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I agree. The whole thing has been very poorly handled by the Jags. Gabbert was put into a hopeless situation and set up for failure.
It's almost comical how stacked the deck has been.

- Lame duck HC so he couldn't put together an offensive staff. We had the Bengals' former WR coach as QB coach, and our former offensive quality control coach as WR coach
- 5th youngest QB to ever start a game
- Wasn't supposed to play at all but BOTH Garrard and McCown blew it (is anybody calling Locker or Kaepernick busts? No, because their vet QBs are playing well)
- No off-season
- Brutal opening schedule (will get softer to end the season)
- Worst WR corps in the league. They've picked up the Rams and Browns scraps (MSW and Brian Robiskie)... that should tell you all you need to know.
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Old 12-11-2011, 01:12 PM    (permalink
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Turned the Mock Thread into a Gabbert Thread SMH.
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Old 12-11-2011, 01:15 PM    (permalink
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Exactly. Drafting Gabbert was a mistake (in my opinion). You don't compound that mistake by forcing yourself to live with it for the next 3-4 years.

Whoever is coaching the Jaguars next year won't have picked Gabbert, and the new owner won't have spent a single dime on him. I think it's misguided to think that anyone in the new Jaguars organization has any loyalty to him.
He may well have been a mistake and you're right the new regime has no loyalty but for God's sake give the guy a little more than 12 games to prove he's lousy.
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Old 12-11-2011, 01:34 PM    (permalink
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What hurts Gabbert is even when he does have time, he plays rushed and frantic and he looked the EXACT same at Mizzou.

He may never improve in that aspect of the game, feeling confident in the pocket, but I just can't see a GM dumping a top 10 pick after his rookie year.
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Old 12-11-2011, 02:21 PM    (permalink
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That's better, and good point too!

I guess my argument would be that even if Jones isn't the ideal scenario for the Seahawks he is still much better than what the Seahawks currently have. After all, it's not like they can do into next season with Tavaris Jackson and Charlie Whitehurst again.

Perhaps the Seahawks will wait and target a guy like Ryan Tannehill in the second round, although I am not sure he makes it to the middle of round two. That could end up being Seattle's only option though if Jones goes back to school, which I believe is a distinct possibility.
This kind of logic works in the second round and later, but not when you're talking about a first round QB. A first round QB can't be a JAG that's better than your current JAG.
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Old 12-11-2011, 02:23 PM    (permalink
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I would be seeing ghosts in the pocket too if I had one of the worst offensive lines in the league and undoubtedly the worst wide receiver corps. So let's see, a rookie from a spread college system is unexpectedly thrust into action a year before he was supposed to be with no protection and no weapons to throw to. Oh, and they fire his coach halfway through the season too. And you wonder why the kid is struggling. Talk about Bad QB Handling 101.
He's been doing that since college...when he had one of the best lines in the Big XII. It's not something that's developed recently. I think Gabbert will be a good QB, but the things that are wrong with him now have always been issues. They're things that might not be fixable.
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Old 12-11-2011, 02:55 PM    (permalink
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He may well have been a mistake and you're right the new regime has no loyalty but for God's sake give the guy a little more than 12 games to prove he's lousy.
Why? I've seen enough. Did the Raiders make the right decision by giving Jamarcus Russel so many years? When someone sucks, they suck.

As per the other poster regarding Jimmy Clausen, I would be surprised if Clausen is still in the league in five years. He's one of the worst starting quarterbacks I've ever seen.
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Old 12-11-2011, 02:57 PM    (permalink
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I would be seeing ghosts in the pocket too if I had one of the worst offensive lines in the league and undoubtedly the worst wide receiver corps. So let's see, a rookie from a spread college system is unexpectedly thrust into action a year before he was supposed to be with no protection and no weapons to throw to. Oh, and they fire his coach halfway through the season too. And you wonder why the kid is struggling. Talk about Bad QB Handling 101.
Well what you would do as an NFL QB is completely irrelevant.

But maybe you're right...if you can't even admit you were wrong about Gabbert, how can we expect the guy who drafted him to? Current situation considered, I just don't know how anyone could watch him play this year and think that he could develop into a competent starting QB.
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Old 12-11-2011, 03:49 PM    (permalink
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I bet a lot of people would probably give up on the rookie quarterback with this stat line too:

10 GS | 47.5% Comp | 7 TD / 14 INT

That was John Elway in 1983.
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Old 12-11-2011, 03:55 PM    (permalink
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I bet a lot of people would probably give up on the rookie quarterback with this stat line too:

10 GS | 47.5% Comp | 7 TD / 14 INT

That was John Elway in 1983.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outlier

"ZOMG! Kurt Warner went from bagging groceries to winning the Superbowl. Let's go down to Save-A-Lot and find our new franchise QB!!"
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Old 12-11-2011, 04:11 PM    (permalink
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I have and a definitely hate Gabbert.

However, as a GM I would improve the rest of my team first, it's not like your going to get Luck here and Barkley returns to school in my mind.

I love me some RGIII and maybe he could help but I think he will still need some development and throwing him into that situation could seriously stunt him.
I have RGIII ahead of Barkley personally, but I'd take either in the top 10 if I needed a QB. Both are better prospects coming out than Gabbert was (as is Landry Jones)

I'm curious why you think RGIII would need an abnormal amount of development, however. He has a ton of experience in college and is a very accurate passer. People are mistaken if they think he just gets by on freaky athletic ability.
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Old 12-11-2011, 04:26 PM    (permalink
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So Gene Smith is going to hire a coach and make him start Gabbert?
Probably will be a question during the interview process. It's Gene Smith's call to take a QB, and he won't early in the draft.
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Old 12-11-2011, 04:30 PM    (permalink
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I bet a lot of people would probably give up on the rookie quarterback with this stat line too:

10 GS | 47.5% Comp | 7 TD / 14 INT

That was John Elway in 1983.
i agree with what you say about Gabbert....however it was a different game back then in the passing game and with what rookie QBs could do, and if Gabbert did in college what Elway did in college then people wouldn't be calling Gabbert a bust already no matter how unfair it is. I don't like comparing QBs stats from before the 90s to QB stats today. Go look at Archie Manning and Joe Namath's stats from their career and you'll see what I mean.

I think Gene Smith won't draft another QB even if his new coach pleads for one. Guy isn't gonna surrender that quickly. He'll try to bring in a bunch of WR and OLine talent before he thinks about drafting another 1st round QB I'll betcha.
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