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Old 12-22-2011, 04:34 PM    (permalink
WCH
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Originally Posted by Scott Wright View Post
* Barkley's game is ripe to be picked apart and overanalyzed. People are going to point out his lack of top physical tools and say he is a product of all the talent around him (best set of wideouts in the country, etc).
This could really hurt him. I've already read a few comments, from employed NFL scouts, questioning his measurables.

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Old 12-22-2011, 04:36 PM    (permalink
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This could really hurt him. I've already read a few comments from employed NFL scouts, where they question his measurables.
He's rated much higher in the draftnik community than the scout community.
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Old 12-22-2011, 04:41 PM    (permalink
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This could really hurt him. I've already read a few comments from employed NFL scouts, where they question his measurables.
Meh, I think that's blown out of proportion. Leinart came back and 'fell' but it's pretty clear now that he just wasn't very talented and chances are teams probably saw that when he was a junior. Locker came back, had a crappy senior year and was picked apart by fans and analysts and he still went 8th overall. Same could be said about Luck this year.
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Old 12-22-2011, 04:47 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Scott Wright View Post

* Fans of the Redskins, Dolphins, Browns and Seahawks should be very concerned.
If Griffin III comes out I won't be that concerned myself. Can't say the same for Redskins, Dolphins, etc. fans.
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Old 12-22-2011, 04:52 PM    (permalink
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He's rated much higher in the draftnik community than the scout community.
I don't think there is any evidence to support that. On the field i think Matt Barkley has a much better arm than most in the internet community think.
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Old 12-22-2011, 04:55 PM    (permalink
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If Griffin III comes out I won't be that concerned myself. Can't say the same for Redskins, Dolphins, etc. fans.
I don't think you can sit at 5 and expect him just to fall to you. Someone will want to move up.
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Old 12-22-2011, 04:56 PM    (permalink
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does this elevate landry jonesinto the top 10?
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Old 12-22-2011, 04:57 PM    (permalink
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It goes (for me)

Luck
RG3
Weeden
Moore
Foles
Tannehill
Doritos
Vanilla Coke
SNES
Stale Milk Duds
Landry Jones
I wish you were the GM for a team in the NFL. That would guarantee a terrible team. Moore as a second rounder? He is a shorter, weaker armed, less athletic version of Colt McCoy. I will be shocked if he is taken before the 6th. Foles is a very poor man's Blaine Gabbert and Weeden is way too old. And even if he was 22, he still wouldn't be a first rounder. I can understand why a lot of people don't like Landry. But to put those guys above him is nuts.

As for Barkley, I think this gives USC a great chance to go to the NC game next year. Very early prediction is USC-Georgia. And it's going to be fun watching Barkley and Wilson compete for the top spot. This also makes it likelier that the Jaguars get Barkley which I would love.
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Brilliant letting one of Scott Pioli's henchmen have his own team to ruin.  One of the premier GM jobs in the NFL and it gets handed to a stupid **** who makes three facepalm moves for every good one.  Awesome.  Just like handing a new Mercedes to a 16 year old girl who's already been in three wrecks. 
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Old 12-22-2011, 05:04 PM    (permalink
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Next year has the potential to be both really good...and really weird.

This does hurt him a bit. I never really bought into Barkley as a top ten pick in this climate and I'm not sure I do next year either. He'll enter the year as the clear cut number one guy(assuming Griffin decides to come out), but he'll have to deal with guys who have better physical tools than him having potential breakout seasons and then doing what he didn't; strike while the irons hot.

Barkley's game is built on polish, not potential. Those guys have a tendency to be devalued as commodities the longer you have to look at them, with the rare exception of someone special like Luck. He is going to be murdered around here next year for his receivers and arm strength....and I don't think that those are totally unfair knocks. But ultimately, I can't see him dropping much lower than the 15-20 range. So if you thought he was a top five type pick this year, then yeah, he's taking a dive....but I'm really not sure how realistic that was in the first place. He would have been a fairly safe bet to go in the top ten overall, but it would have really come down to a coin flip and team to team thing between he and Griffin within those picks and it's not out of the question that he could have fallen a bit this year even.

Wilson and Bray are two guys I could see passing him assuming they have good years. Wilson is really under the radar as a prospect and is a lot more talented than people realize. The receivers he's throwing to right now are as good as a bunch as it gets in the country, but with the two biggest names from that group graduating, he'll have a real good chance to prove himself. Bray is probably the best pure thrower of the football in the past few draft classes. There's concerns about his weight, but his arm strength, mechanics, and overall feel for the pro-style passing game are top notch. He needs to have a big year and stay healthy, but out of all the guys available next year, I would bet on him having the best NFL career. He's a potential franchise quarterback...and I mean that in the top 10 quarterback/playoff contender year in year out kind of way, not the "he could start on most teams" definition we seem to go by these days.
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Old 12-22-2011, 05:06 PM    (permalink
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does this elevate landry jonesinto the top 10?
I'm not big on a guy seeing his stock soar because someone else decided to stay in school. That being said i think Landry Jones was probably always going to attract interest from teams like Washington and Seattle. Wherever those two end up picking is probably where Landry will go.
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Old 12-22-2011, 05:07 PM    (permalink
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I wish you were the GM for a team in the NFL. That would guarantee a terrible team. Moore as a second rounder? He is a shorter, weaker armed, less athletic version of Colt McCoy. I will be shocked if he is taken before the 6th. Foles is a very poor man's Blaine Gabbert and Weeden is way too old. And even if he was 22, he still wouldn't be a first rounder. I can understand why a lot of people don't like Landry. But to put those guys above him is nuts.

As for Barkley, I think this gives USC a great chance to go to the NC game next year. Very early prediction is USC-Georgia. And it's going to be fun watching Barkley and Wilson compete for the top spot. This also makes it likelier that the Jaguars get Barkley which I would love.
I would be a Horrible GM but you would take Landry Jones over all of those QBs?

Child Please...

Oh.. and if you watched film, you'd see that Wilson bails the pocket way too quick and Barkley throws 75 percent to the flats and underneath.. You can get QBs like that anywhere. I would rank Wilson over Barkley because of his skill set. Wilson is a slightly better version of Chad Henne.
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Old 12-22-2011, 05:08 PM    (permalink
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Bray does look excellent but can someone take him to an All You Can Eat Buffet? He's 6'6" and looks like he weighed 145 pounds.
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Brilliant letting one of Scott Pioli's henchmen have his own team to ruin.  One of the premier GM jobs in the NFL and it gets handed to a stupid **** who makes three facepalm moves for every good one.  Awesome.  Just like handing a new Mercedes to a 16 year old girl who's already been in three wrecks. 
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Old 12-22-2011, 05:14 PM    (permalink
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I would be a Horrible GM but you would take Landry Jones over all of those QBs?

Child Please...

Oh.. and if you watched film, you'd see that Wilson bails the pocket way too quick and Barkley throws 75 percent to the flats and underneath.. You can get QBs like that anywhere. I would rank Wilson over Barkley because of his skill set. Wilson is a slightly better version of Chad Henne.
I didn't say I would take Jones over Luck and or Griffin. I would have him around where Tannehill ranks, early second round. I like Foles more than most, but I still think he needs a few years of sitting if he is ever going to be a starter. I'm not saying Jones is great, but he is leaps and bounds better than a 28 year old rookie and a guy who will be the shortest QB in the league while also having the weakest arm.
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Brilliant letting one of Scott Pioli's henchmen have his own team to ruin.  One of the premier GM jobs in the NFL and it gets handed to a stupid **** who makes three facepalm moves for every good one.  Awesome.  Just like handing a new Mercedes to a 16 year old girl who's already been in three wrecks. 
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Old 12-22-2011, 05:19 PM    (permalink
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I don't think you can sit at 5 and expect him just to fall to you. Someone will want to move up.
I expect Jacksonville beats Indy and we lose out, so we'd be sitting at 4. If the Browns really wanted him I'm sure it would be a lot easier for them to get him than Washington or Miami who would not only have to jump into the 2 or 3 slot while the Browns would only have to move up one or two spots or just sit pretty and let him fall to them.
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Old 12-22-2011, 05:20 PM    (permalink
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I didn't say I would take Jones over Luck and or Griffin. I would have him around where Tannehill ranks, early second round. I like Foles more than most, but I still think he needs a few years of sitting if he is ever going to be a starter. I'm not saying Jones is great, but he is leaps and bounds better than a 28 year old rookie and a guy who will be the shortest QB in the league while also having the weakest arm.
I can't trust Tannehill and Jones.. Have you seen both these guys this year in their biggest games? Folded up like a lawn chair..

Jones in NOT better than Weeden..younger YES, but better NO way. I'd like my chances with Chase Daniel over Trent Edwards any day of the week and twice on Sundays. I judge QBs on how they perform in pressure situations.. Yes skill set is important, but its not the end all be all.. As a coach, its your job to put him in situations that fit what he does best.

With that said, there's nothing you can do as a coach to fix a guy like Gabbert (can't coach scariness out of someone), Jones (Horrible decision making at crucial times), Tannehill (Bird-dogging WRs).. it goes against what they do naturally.
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Old 12-22-2011, 05:23 PM    (permalink
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Next year has the potential to be both really good...and really weird.

This does hurt him a bit. I never really bought into Barkley as a top ten pick in this climate and I'm not sure I do next year either. He'll enter the year as the clear cut number one guy(assuming Griffin decides to come out), but he'll have to deal with guys who have better physical tools than him having potential breakout seasons and then doing what he didn't; strike while the irons hot.

Barkley's game is built on polish, not potential. Those guys have a tendency to be devalued as commodities the longer you have to look at them, with the rare exception of someone special like Luck. He is going to be murdered around here next year for his receivers and arm strength....and I don't think that those are totally unfair knocks. But ultimately, I can't see him dropping much lower than the 15-20 range. So if you thought he was a top five type pick this year, then yeah, he's taking a dive....but I'm really not sure how realistic that was in the first place. He would have been a fairly safe bet to go in the top ten overall, but it would have really come down to a coin flip and team to team thing between he and Griffin within those picks and it's not out of the question that he could have fallen a bit this year even.

Wilson and Bray are two guys I could see passing him assuming they have good years. Wilson is really under the radar as a prospect and is a lot more talented than people realize. The receivers he's throwing to right now are as good as a bunch as it gets in the country, but with the two biggest names from that group graduating, he'll have a real good chance to prove himself. Bray is probably the best pure thrower of the football in the past few draft classes. There's concerns about his weight, but his arm strength, mechanics, and overall feel for the pro-style passing game are top notch. He needs to have a big year and stay healthy, but out of all the guys available next year, I would bet on him having the best NFL career. He's a potential franchise quarterback...and I mean that in the top 10 quarterback/playoff contender year in year out kind of way, not the "he could start on most teams" definition we seem to go by these days.
Duuuude...don't even get me started on this.
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Old 12-22-2011, 05:24 PM    (permalink
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does this elevate landry jonesinto the top 10?
Why would a second round QB go into the top 10 when another one doesn't declare?
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Old 12-22-2011, 05:28 PM    (permalink
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Why would a second round QB go into the top 10 when another one doesn't declare?
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Old 12-22-2011, 05:28 PM    (permalink
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Why would a second round QB go into the top 10 when another one doesn't declare?
Blaine Gabbert went top ten. Stranger things have happened. I doubt Landry goes much higher than #20 though. I don't think anyone really likes the guy anymore, but someone is going to take him in that range because of his size, arm, and experience. Doesn't make it right....but I would be very surprised if someone doesn't talk themselves into it.
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Old 12-22-2011, 05:29 PM    (permalink
jrdrylie
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I agree with you on Weeden. If he was 22, I think he would be in the second round mix. But he isn't and for that reason, you have to drop him. And I would argue that players can be coached to make better decsions. Just look at Cutler. He was known for being very turnover prone, especially in the red zone. But he has been getting progressively better at making decisions.
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Old 12-22-2011, 05:35 PM    (permalink
Rashaan Salaam
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I agree with you on Weeden. If he was 22, I think he would be in the second round mix. But he isn't and for that reason, you have to drop him. And I would argue that players can be coached to make better decsions. Just look at Cutler. He was known for being very turnover prone, especially in the red zone. But he has been getting progressively better at making decisions.
Agree with you on Cutler...but you have to admit, that his OL protection had gotten better. He was a better QB in Denver imho.
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Old 12-22-2011, 05:36 PM    (permalink
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Saw this coming. He has a ton of returning offensive talent, a shot at a bowl, the Heisman and a #1 pick next year, no way he left to be 2nd fiddle to Luck and compared to him his whole career.
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Old 12-22-2011, 05:44 PM    (permalink
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Saw this coming. He has a ton of returning offensive talent, a shot at a bowl, the Heisman and a #1 pick next year, no way he left to be 2nd fiddle to Luck and compared to him his whole career.
Thats actually a good point. Even now we find the need to keep comparing Eli, Rivers and Ben and those three only.

Then again some people could argue that a a more confident player wouldn't give a rats ass and work his ass off to be better than the consensus number 1.
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Old 12-22-2011, 06:22 PM    (permalink
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I think he has his heart in the right place. He's not staying in school to bang hot co-eds like Leinart did.

He really wants to play in a Bowl game, win a Heisman. He'll hurt his stock because he's a guaranteed Top 10 pick this year.

Another year of evaluation from the scouts could knock him down. I hope Griffin III and Landry Jones stay in school now too.

If the Bills can't get their Franchise QB then I don't want the Browns, Redskins or Dolphins getting theirs either.
If there was ever a reason to stay at USC, this is it. I've no idea what you're talking about sir.

Still, I'm a little shocked. It's not often someone who is pretty close to a Top 8 lock chooses to go back to school, and it rarely works out for those who do. Guys like Leinart and Locker cost themselves arguably tens of millions of dollars by going back to school. Hopefully Barkley doesn't suffer the same fate.
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Old 12-22-2011, 06:28 PM    (permalink
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If there was ever a reason to stay at USC, this is it. I've no idea what you're talking about sir.

Still, I'm a little shocked. It's not often someone who is pretty close to a Top 8 lock chooses to go back to school, and it rarely works out for those who do. Guys like Leinart and Locker cost themselves arguably tens of millions of dollars by going back to school. Hopefully Barkley doesn't suffer the same fate.
In today's NFL, this isn't going to cost him. Gone are the days of top guys getting 40 million guaranteed. Newton only got around 22 million total. It may cost him a few millions, but not much even if he does drop. And if he does well and ends up as the top pick in 2013, he'll get at least 25 million. I view it as very low risk, high reward
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Brilliant letting one of Scott Pioli's henchmen have his own team to ruin.  One of the premier GM jobs in the NFL and it gets handed to a stupid **** who makes three facepalm moves for every good one.  Awesome.  Just like handing a new Mercedes to a 16 year old girl who's already been in three wrecks. 
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