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Old 12-22-2011, 06:35 PM    (permalink
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I just hope we can avoid the ridiculousness of "He's really dumb!" or "I question his competitiveness". Never bought into that crap. Say what you will about Barkley the football player and his physical tools, but a guy who turns down the payday to go back to school and finish out what he started always gets ton of respect from me.
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Old 12-22-2011, 06:38 PM    (permalink
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I just hope we can avoid the ridiculousness of "He's really dumb!" or "I question his competitiveness". Never bought into that crap. Say what you will about Barkley the football player and his physical tools, but a guy who turns down the payday to go back to school and finish out what he started always gets ton of respect from me.
Funny, that's the argument I made for Locker last year...Who was I arguing against? Was that D-Unit?
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Old 12-22-2011, 06:38 PM    (permalink
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I agree with you on Weeden. If he was 22, I think he would be in the second round mix. But he isn't and for that reason, you have to drop him. And I would argue that players can be coached to make better decsions. Just look at Cutler. He was known for being very turnover prone, especially in the red zone. But he has been getting progressively better at making decisions.
If Weeden was 22, he'd be in the first round conversation.
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Old 12-22-2011, 06:39 PM    (permalink
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Funny, that's the argument I made for Locker last year...Who was I arguing against? Was that D-Unit?
Let's not name names...but I was right there with you on that one.
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Old 12-22-2011, 06:41 PM    (permalink
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Let's not name names...but I was right there with you on that one.
I remember a fairly vehement discourse on my part that suggested anyone calling a player going back to a fairly poor Washington program to help resurrect it was an absolute moron. As much as I think going back to school can oftentimes be a mistake, it certainly doesn't signal weakness of character or a lack of competitiveness to me.
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Old 12-22-2011, 07:25 PM    (permalink
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Im very happy as a USC fan, Im glad to see him finish what he started. He has gone through the lowest moment at SC and wants to bring him back to the top, that is awesome.

The kid is very loyal and that shows, part of me has always said he might go back because he wants to go number 1, and that wasnt likely this year with Luck. So on top of the fact he brings back a loaded SC squad and a chance at a title, he goes in as the clear favorite to go number 1. Its his to lose, basically.
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I wouldn't be sir prized if he passed McCoy on the depth chart. I think he might have a better arm and accurate arm then him from the highlights I thought. He also got some wheels too help us prepare for QB's as Wilson , RG3 and other runners etc.
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Old 12-22-2011, 07:28 PM    (permalink
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Seahawks fan perspective: This ******* sucks.
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Old 12-22-2011, 07:31 PM    (permalink
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damn that sucks for the skins. now its really rg3 or bust unless we unloaded a ton for luck which i doubt.
The Skins will unload a ton for either Luck or Manning so there really is nothing to worry about.
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Old 12-22-2011, 07:47 PM    (permalink
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* Barkley's game is ripe to be picked apart and overanalyzed. People are going to point out his lack of top physical tools and say he is a product of all the talent around him (best set of wideouts in the country, etc). Could be a Matt Leinart situation.

* Barkley isn't going to have the buzz a year from now. A was a big reason why Mark Sanchez was selected as early as he was. Sanchez struck while the iron was hot, Barkley did not.
.
1) An if he went through the draft process now he wouldn't be picked apart and overanalyzed? Looks like you just did it right there.
2) If Barkley comes back to win a national championship and heisman he won't have buzz? Good one.
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Old 12-22-2011, 08:05 PM    (permalink
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Not sure I understand the 'people will analyze his physical weaknesses' argument next year. Why would they decide to be ignorant of them through this year's draft production? Obviously there's the risk of a poor or substandard season, but I don't see how he'd escape anymore nitpicking of his physical tools by declaring.
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Old 12-22-2011, 08:08 PM    (permalink
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He's just as athletic as Sam Bradford, who managed to have about as bad a "go-back" season as you can have and still managed to go no. 1 overall. I don't think that's going to be the issue for Barkley.
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Old 12-22-2011, 08:09 PM    (permalink
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But the other QB in that draft class was Kimmy Clausen. . .
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Old 12-22-2011, 08:23 PM    (permalink
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In today's NFL, this isn't going to cost him. Gone are the days of top guys getting 40 million guaranteed. Newton only got around 22 million total. It may cost him a few millions, but not much even if he does drop. And if he does well and ends up as the top pick in 2013, he'll get at least 25 million. I view it as very low risk, high reward
We get lost in these numbers, and we might as well be talking about monopoly money. I have a wealthy uncle who lost "a lot of money" in a bad investment, and the percentages are on par with what we're talking about. My cousin tells me that it stung.

If you make a decision that costs you a few million dollars, then that's a pretty bad year. Unless you spend that year as a 22 year old local celebrity, partying and banging Hollywood girls. Then it's a good year, and I've never really faulted Leinart for making that choice.

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Old 12-22-2011, 08:45 PM    (permalink
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Called this awhile ago, good decision here.

The guy might be looking at the #3 QB slot this year but will most likely be the #1 next year. He has a great shot at the title and it is unlikely he will have a bad season with that team.

I don't get why people say he will be overanalyzed with another year. Why would the argument of the talent around him apply next year but not this year? Why would you not question his physical tools this year? These kinds of things seem overrated to me.

I do see the argument of star power but I would argue that in Barkley's case, next year would be his star power year. Right now he is being bumped out of the spotlight by Luck and RGIII but a chase for the NC game next year and Heisman candidacy will likely being him to the forefront. This year is more like his on deck year if anything
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Old 12-22-2011, 08:52 PM    (permalink
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I don't get why people say he will be overanalyzed with another year. Why would the argument of the talent around him apply next year but not this year? Why would you not question his physical tools this year? These kinds of things seem overrated to me.
This is speculation on my part, but I think that the risk with coming back is that you give scouts an extra year and roughly 350-450 more passing plays to confirm their concerns/biases against you.
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Old 12-22-2011, 08:58 PM    (permalink
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This is speculation on my part, but I think that the risk with coming back is that you give scouts an extra year and roughly 350-450 more passing plays to confirm their concerns/biases against you.
This is true but I think it is more risky for guys like Locker who weren't playing on a team who will mask those shortcomings. This is also a knock against him (the team) but it inevitably helps him as well. It would be hard to knock a guy in the Heisman race (He will be a favorite) and who is leading his team in a race for the NC
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Old 12-22-2011, 09:16 PM    (permalink
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Old 12-22-2011, 09:23 PM    (permalink
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This is true but I think it is more risky for guys like Locker who weren't playing on a team who will mask those shortcomings. This is also a knock against him (the team) but it inevitably helps him as well. It would be hard to knock a guy in the Heisman race (He will be a favorite) and who is leading his team in a race for the NC
Not really. It happened with Leinart, and I'm almost willing to guarantee it will happen with Barkley. Shiny new toy syndrome might not be fair, both in terms of having "breakout seasons" and prospects becoming less new and interesting, but we'v seen it happen before. The same knocks to Barkley that will be levied at him next year could just as easily be levied at him this year, but he's already done near all he can as an individual. The stuff USC does next year as a team(and they have a good chance at getting to the title game) shouldn't factor into his evaluation. So he's really just giving people who don't like him more information to make their decision. That type of thing has hurt nearly everyone, with the exception of Luck...and you could argue that Luck coming back to an offense that couldn't move the ball vertically diminished some of the buzz he had about him as well.
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Old 12-22-2011, 09:27 PM    (permalink
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Not really. It happened with Leinart, and I'm almost willing to guarantee it will happen with Barkley. Shiny new toy syndrome might not be fair, both in terms of having "breakout seasons" and prospects becoming less new and interesting, but we'v seen it happen before. The same knocks to Barkley that will be levied at him next year could just as easily be levied at him this year, but he's already done near all he can as an individual. The stuff USC does next year as a team(and they have a good chance at getting to the title game) shouldn't factor into his evaluation. So he's really just giving people who don't like him more information to make their decision. That type of thing has hurt nearly everyone, with the exception of Luck...and you could argue that Luck coming back to an offense that couldn't move the ball vertically diminished some of the buzz he had about him as well.
Who is anyone to say that Leinart would have gone number 1 that year. I remember much of that buzz being that Carroll might take the 9ers job and he would take Leinart with his pick. The guy just didnt want it like Barkley does. Leinart went back to SC for the wrong reasons, you can tell Barkley is going back with the intentions of winning, and improving his play....hes not going back to get laid every night.

I think Bark wants to be the number 1 pick, but I dont think he will be heartbroken if he doesnt. He doesnt seem to care about the money...hes going to get his chance regardless.
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I wouldn't be sir prized if he passed McCoy on the depth chart. I think he might have a better arm and accurate arm then him from the highlights I thought. He also got some wheels too help us prepare for QB's as Wilson , RG3 and other runners etc.
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Old 12-22-2011, 09:36 PM    (permalink
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Not really. It happened with Leinart, and I'm almost willing to guarantee it will happen with Barkley. Shiny new toy syndrome might not be fair, both in terms of having "breakout seasons" and prospects becoming less new and interesting, but we'v seen it happen before. The same knocks to Barkley that will be levied at him next year could just as easily be levied at him this year, but he's already done near all he can as an individual. The stuff USC does next year as a team(and they have a good chance at getting to the title game) shouldn't factor into his evaluation. So he's really just giving people who don't like him more information to make their decision. That type of thing has hurt nearly everyone, with the exception of Luck...and you could argue that Luck coming back to an offense that couldn't move the ball vertically diminished some of the buzz he had about him as well.
Seeing him in a big post season game and possibly being one of the best players in the country next year couldn't help his stock? As of right now he isn't even the #1 at his position in fact he is arguably the #3 at his position right now in the country.

I definitely think that there are things he can do to improve his stock and the comparison to Leinart isn't accurate. Leinart went back to party, this kid is going back to win for his team. I personally find that admirable. I mean this kid could have easily transfered after the sanctions but decided to stick with USC, in part I believe, so that they would be in a position to win the NC game in his senior year. This shows dedication and a good sense of values on his part
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Old 12-22-2011, 09:39 PM    (permalink
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It's not 100% certain that Leinart would have gone number one that year...but it's certainly approaching that point. He certainly would have gone higher than he did when he came back. Little doubt in my mind about that when you see how that board broke and what people thought of Leinart at that time.

...and that's all well and good about Matt Leinart going back to school for the wrong reasons and generally being a douche...don't get me wrong. I get that. Barkley isn't Leinart personality wise and that's part of his strength as a prospect...but it has little to do with the fact he's going to have his game picked apart. I admire the fact he's staying, even. He's doing right by USC and you guys should absolutely be thrilled that the guy cares that much about competing for a BCS game and leaving the program in a better place than when he started. That's exactly what you want if you're looking for a quarterback....but you hear already that a lot of people don't like his physical skills. That's not going to change. Another year of tape is just going to make people more vocal about it and end up hurting Barkley.


I still like him a ton as a prospect, but I think his ceiling is limited. I don't see a guy who has the ability to carry a franchise. That doesn't mean he isn't worth a first round pick or doesn't have a chance to have a productive career with playoff appearances, but I would absolutely have pause taking him #1 overall if I think there's a guy with more upside than he has.
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Old 12-22-2011, 09:46 PM    (permalink
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Seeing him in a big post season game and possibly being one of the best players in the country next year couldn't help his stock? As of right now he isn't even the #1 at his position in fact he is arguably the #3 at his position right now in the country.
Tyler Wilson is a lot closer to Barkley than people seem to realize right now. He'll have to fight him off at the start of next year and throughout...and have to deal with Bray, who possesses more talent than either of them, poised to have a great year. Team success could help him a bit, but it really shouldn't. At the end of the day, it's about his skill level versus the rest of the field. He's a very refined guy, but people are already talking about his upside being potentially limited and that's only going to get worse. He's a lock first round pick either way, but I'm not sure he's a slam dunk top ten pick this year or next.
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Old 12-22-2011, 10:01 PM    (permalink
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Tyler Wilson is a lot closer to Barkley than people seem to realize right now. He'll have to fight him off at the start of next year and throughout...and have to deal with Bray, who possesses more talent than either of them, poised to have a great year. Team success could help him a bit, but it really shouldn't. At the end of the day, it's about his skill level versus the rest of the field. He's a very refined guy, but people are already talking about his upside being potentially limited and that's only going to get worse. He's a lock first round pick either way, but I'm not sure he's a slam dunk top ten pick this year or next.
Tyler Wilson is definitely close (I love him) but some of the same analyzation will affect him as well.

I think that worst case scenario he isn't going to be any worse off than if he came out this year (#3) and he will have achieved his goal of a NC in his senior year.
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Old 12-22-2011, 10:36 PM    (permalink
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Just to throw a bone in the "over-analyzed" argument.

Matt Leinart is usually named as the prime example, but to play devil's advocate, the draft order and the needs of the teams usually comes into play too.

The big key for the coming years is now how willing teams are to trade up. Its much cheaper financially to move up, so you may actually have more movement. This time next year, everyone will bring up Pete Carroll doing some funky business to try to trade up to get Barkley...
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Old 12-22-2011, 10:39 PM    (permalink
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Just to throw a bone in the "over-analyzed" argument.

Matt Leinart is usually named as the prime example, but to play devil's advocate, the draft order and the needs of the teams usually comes into play too.

The big key for the coming years is now how willing teams are to trade up. Its much cheaper financially to move up, so you may actually have more movement. This time next year, everyone will bring up Pete Carroll doing some funky business to try to trade up to get Barkley...

also of relevance: which teams will give up on their current franchise hopefuls and be ready to move on?

will bradford fall apart and put the rams at the top looking for a new guy? its things like that that seem far fetched but could come to pass and shake up draft needs.
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