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Old 11-02-2011, 06:50 AM    (permalink
TACKLE
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No...I do not watch Memphis play on a regular basis...so stats are nearly all I can go buy. I've not watched any video clips because there just aren't any out there on the guy, so the proof isn't in the pudding there. Guys...we're talking about putting this guy as a top 15 pick here. Al Davis is dead (rest in peace), and I CANNOT believe that Houston wouldn't trade back and pick up a guy like Ta'amu if they're THAT desperate for a nose tackle.

A can't be the only guy that believes this. Anyone have any clips that shows how dominant this guy is on the football field? I can see picking him up as a mid-round pick off his strength alone, but a solid early 1st round pick? Crazy...
I don't understand...why offer up an opinion at all, especially a strong one, on a guy you've never seen and have basically zero insight or knowledge of?
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Old 11-02-2011, 12:36 PM    (permalink
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I don't understand...why offer up an opinion at all, especially a strong one, on a guy you've never seen and have basically zero insight or knowledge of?
Fair enough. Just reminding you of small school stars like Jarron Gilbert or even the cliche of Vernon Gholston when talking about these types of guys. I suppose if I could see more stats like QB pressure and the like (since I'm not gonna watch Memphis play), it would help alleviate some of my concerns about drafting him early. Especially THAT early.

If he's disruptive and collapses the pocket, fine. But I read that he only has 3 QB hurries. If I'm gonna take a top 15 DL...he better be able to get after the QB as well as stop of the run.
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Old 11-03-2011, 01:05 PM    (permalink
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Fair enough. Just reminding you of small school stars like Jarron Gilbert or even the cliche of Vernon Gholston when talking about these types of guys. I suppose if I could see more stats like QB pressure and the like (since I'm not gonna watch Memphis play), it would help alleviate some of my concerns about drafting him early. Especially THAT early.

If he's disruptive and collapses the pocket, fine. But I read that he only has 3 QB hurries. If I'm gonna take a top 15 DL...he better be able to get after the QB as well as stop of the run.

He has played mostly 3-4 DE with some snaps at 3-4 NT. HOw often do those guys who draw double teams even in college get those numbers? Check the numbers of the Linebackers, who suck, to see his ability. Those number show more than his own numbers. But film shows more than that, so watch the film bro
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What's with the hate on Ricky Stanzi? Those youtube clips of him with the hulk hogan theme music instantly make him better than Luck.
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Old 11-03-2011, 01:59 PM    (permalink
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He has played mostly 3-4 DE with some snaps at 3-4 NT. HOw often do those guys who draw double teams even in college get those numbers? Check the numbers of the Linebackers, who suck, to see his ability. Those number show more than his own numbers. But film shows more than that, so watch the film bro
Wish I could. Can't find any. Would be greatful if anyone would post something...anything.
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Old 11-09-2011, 08:12 AM    (permalink
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What position does Dontari project to in a 3-4? What about a 4-3? It seems he is more of a UT and 5 techniquue in those defenses. He could play NT as well, but he is used to penetrate, read and react in his current role at Memphis.
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i mean, why wouldn't the broncos take cam newton? they can play him at quarterback WITH tebow!
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Old 11-09-2011, 09:33 PM    (permalink
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What position does Dontari project to in a 3-4? What about a 4-3? It seems he is more of a UT and 5 techniquue in those defenses. He could play NT as well, but he is used to penetrate, read and react in his current role at Memphis.
I know what you're saying. For a 350 pounder, people assume he's just an interior space eater but he's much more explosive upfield and much more dynamic as a pass rusher than he gets credit for. I know it's not an answer but it really depends on each teams scheme and personnel. As it stands now, he may actually be best as a 5-tech/UT. Though I think if a 3-4 team commits to developing him at the position, with his physical tools, long term he may have the most upside playing nose in the 34.
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Old 11-09-2011, 10:33 PM    (permalink
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What position does Dontari project to in a 3-4? What about a 4-3? It seems he is more of a UT and 5 techniquue in those defenses. He could play NT as well, but he is used to penetrate, read and react in his current role at Memphis.
yes, he reminds me of Haloti Ngata in the regard that he is a huge widebody at 350 lbs. but he can move so that he can be used as a 5 tech in a 3-4 or 3 tech in a 4-3.
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Old 12-12-2011, 03:58 PM    (permalink
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yes, he reminds me of Haloti Ngata in the regard that he is a huge widebody at 350 lbs. but he can move so that he can be used as a 5 tech in a 3-4 or 3 tech in a 4-3.
I'm researching Poe now. As a Chiefs fan I can say we are in desperate need of a true dominating NT. We need a QB much more. But I fear the Chiefs may have been just good enough to not be able to get one of the top rated QBs in the draft.

But currently, we have Kelly Gregg playing NT who is also on a one year deal and maybe 3 games from retirement. Outside of that we have 6th round pick Jerrrell Powe from last year's draft. But he's only suited up one game. Which is not good considering he can't get play time when his competition is Kelly Gregg and journeyman Ammon Gordon.

So the Chiefs' need for a NT is there.

My question is how he compares to Alameda Ta'amu, the other huge NT prospect in this draft? Not many Memphis games get televised. So I'm having to rely on the various reports on him. I have seen Ta'amu quite a bit the past few years and think he has some potential. But Poe just seems bigger, stronger and more athletic based on reports. So who rates better and why? How do the intangibles compare?
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Old 12-13-2011, 02:03 AM    (permalink
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He has played mostly 3-4 DE with some snaps at 3-4 NT. HOw often do those guys who draw double teams even in college get those numbers? Check the numbers of the Linebackers, who suck, to see his ability. Those number show more than his own numbers. But film shows more than that, so watch the film bro
I've watched him play. He doesn't get doubleteams. Have you watched the games? Seems to me like a guy that is so raw he'll need at least 3 years under a GOOD coach to get to where he needs to be. NOT a first round pick. 3rd round tops.
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Old 12-13-2011, 01:39 PM    (permalink
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He is raw, but they always say you can't teach size. Phillip Taylor and Ron Brace where drafted higher than expected but Taylor looks like a steal at this point. I think he will end up in round one or early round 2. Wouldn't be suprised he moves into top 20 because of his athleticism.

I think he is more of a 5-Tech than a 0-Tech because of his height. Taller players have trouble at the nose becuse of leverage. Ratlif/Hampton/Wilfork/Raji, they are all 0-tech under 6'3. I think Alameda will be more valued at NT while Poe is much more versatile
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Old 12-13-2011, 08:17 PM    (permalink
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That's a lot to risk in a first round pick. So you see him as a 4-3 NT? Okay...I can buy that. Potential-wise anyway. I still think its a risky pick for the 3rd round.

But I suppose if a team like Minnesota sees value in drafting him in the second, that already has vested starters at the position, to groom until those starters retire/get injured...I might buy it. Potential through the roof but extremely raw. Still don't like it though.

Its like rating that Williams kid from North Carolina as a 2nd-3rd round pick. Just because of his size (6'3", 320) and athleticism, people see him as a 3rd rounder. He's tagged UDFA in mine. *shrugs*
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Old 12-22-2011, 07:21 PM    (permalink
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That's a lot to risk in a first round pick. So you see him as a 4-3 NT? Okay...I can buy that. Potential-wise anyway. I still think its a risky pick for the 3rd round.

But I suppose if a team like Minnesota sees value in drafting him in the second, that already has vested starters at the position, to groom until those starters retire/get injured...I might buy it. Potential through the roof but extremely raw. Still don't like it though.

Its like rating that Williams kid from North Carolina as a 2nd-3rd round pick. Just because of his size (6'3", 320) and athleticism, people see him as a 3rd rounder. He's tagged UDFA in mine. *shrugs*
Well he is not just a raw player. He already has a great spin move that guys that big do not have. He plays with leverage, his head up and always looking in the bckfield, he comes out of his stance low. The biggest teaching point is hand placement and arm extension. He has nuances that 3-4 year starters don't have.
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What's with the hate on Ricky Stanzi? Those youtube clips of him with the hulk hogan theme music instantly make him better than Luck.

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Old 12-22-2011, 08:23 PM    (permalink
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Looking up his strength numbers and watching him in shorts, he looks like a Ngata-type, which is enough for me to be really interested. If the Seahawks can't land a top QB, a freakishly strong and athletic D-lineman who can play the edge or the middle wouldn't be a half-bad compensation. But I'm having a really hard time finding game film of him. Does anyone here have access to that? I'm not having much luck so far on Youtube.
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Old 12-23-2011, 07:54 PM    (permalink
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Poe has officially declared for the draft. If you wanna see some of his interviews, which to me tell a lot about someone, you can find them all over you tube.
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What's with the hate on Ricky Stanzi? Those youtube clips of him with the hulk hogan theme music instantly make him better than Luck.
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Old 12-23-2011, 08:17 PM    (permalink
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I don't see how Poe isn't the #1 DT in the draft. He doesn't have the stats because he played a lot of nose in a 34 but he played pretty much every position for the Tigers across the dline in both fronts. His tools are off the charts. He's athletic and from a small school so everyone assumes he's very raw but he plays fundamentally sound, with great leverage and has a natural feel for the position that you wouldn't expect. He needs to be a little more violent with his hands but he has the ability to be a special player in the league.
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Old 12-23-2011, 08:25 PM    (permalink
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He should end up as a first rounder. Guys this big and strong don't grow on trees. I'm not sure what position I would put him at in an odd front, but I would be interested in trying him out in that Ngata sort of role at the five technique. That's the best way to make use of his combination of length and strength. He's the type of guy I wish we could get into an All-Star game, given the level of competition he faced week in and week out. Probably a good decision though, he can't really get much better at Memphis.
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Old 12-23-2011, 08:35 PM    (permalink
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Top 20 pick once April comes around, wouldn't be surprised to see him as one of the top overall performers at the combine as well.
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Old 12-28-2011, 01:13 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by RaiderNation View Post
Top 20 pick once April comes around, wouldn't be surprised to see him as one of the top overall performers at the combine as well.
LOL. Oh, I'm not saying he WON'T be drafted in the top 20. I'm just staying the team that gets him, is gonna have a project on their hands.
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Old 12-28-2011, 02:10 AM    (permalink
PossibleCabbage
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Originally Posted by no bare feet View Post
What position does Dontari project to in a 3-4? What about a 4-3? It seems he is more of a UT and 5 techniquue in those defenses. He could play NT as well, but he is used to penetrate, read and react in his current role at Memphis.
Best position for Poe in a 3-4 defense, IMO, is LDE, since odd fronts (at least ones that 2-gap) tend to play heavy opposite the right side of the offensive line (which is where offenses tend to prefer to run the ball). He's a guy you swing inside in certain packages, but I think at 6-5 he's giving up a ton of leverage against centers, so you don't necessarily want him playing full-time at NT if you have a pure nose tackle.

(Ideally you want your 3-4 nose tackles to be in that sub-6'3" range like Casey Hampton, Vince Wilfork, B.J. Raji, Aubrayo Franklin, etc.)

So Poe is what I would term an "NT-type DE" in an odd front. In a perfect world you'd use him kind of like Baltimore uses Ngata, not that I think Poe will be that good.

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Old 12-28-2011, 02:16 AM    (permalink
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Ideally, I think you just stick him somewhere along the line and hope that the offense has to pick one side of him or the other to run. He's huge and incredibly strong, so if he's got even decent technique he ought to at the very least be forcing the offense to take account of him on all running plays, and if he can turn that strength into a legitimate bullrush, he'll be pushing the pocket back and helping his defensive ends. He doesn't have to be a flashy playmaker - he just has to play up to his size and strength. Those alone are what make him a potential first-round pick; if he develops his athleticism into football skill, you've potentially got an elite all-around lineman. And I'm still trying to find some decent footage of him. I've managed to find some tape of other Memphis players where you can see him, but it was when he was a freshman. He mostly just looks huge, but you can tell offensive lineman were having a hard time moving him even then. Three years in a college weight room is going to do nothing but help him, and he's got a reputation as a beast in there.

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Old 12-28-2011, 02:44 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by PossibleCabbage View Post
Best position for Poe in a 3-4 defense, IMO, is LDE, since odd fronts (at least ones that 2-gap) tend to play heavy opposite the right side of the offensive line (which is where offenses tend to prefer to run the ball). He's a guy you swing inside in certain packages, but I think at 6-5 he's giving up a ton of leverage against centers, so you don't necessarily want him playing full-time at NT if you have a pure nose tackle.

(Ideally you want your 3-4 nose tackles to be in that sub-6'3" range like Casey Hampton, Vince Wilfork, B.J. Raji, Aubrayo Franklin, etc.)

So Poe is what I would term an "NT-type DE" in an odd front. In a perfect world you'd use him kind of like Baltimore uses Ngata, not that I think Poe will be that good.
Nice analysis; Poe does seem like more of a 3-4 defensive end than a nose tackle. Poe does not play like a nose tackle despite his size and strength; critical nose tackle skills are not evident in his game. Poe's height has thus far prevented him from playing with a pad level low enough to anchor against the run and he was knocked off balance a number of times by significantly smaller offensive linemen during my review (@ Arkansas St. and @ Middle Tennessee St.) Poe's awareness of the ballcarrier is lackluster to say the least; often he winds up out of position to prevent ballcarriers from crossing the line of scrimmage. Nowhere near the prospect Alameda Ta'amu is; Poe's ceiling is higher but he is very much a boom-or-bust player who is being severely overrated because of his freakish physical tools. Poe could certainly blossom into an intimidating defensive lineman with time and quality coaching but that would probably be a gamble for another team to take. 6'5", 350 pound defensive tackles with strength are supposed to dominate against low-level competition and Poe disappeared for long stretches of both games and failed to make his presence felt like a first-round pick should.
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Old 12-28-2011, 03:01 AM    (permalink
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Also worth noting that Poe played a lot of defensive end in 3-4 alignments rather than lining up on the nose; extremely awkward technique and painfully slow off the ball at times.
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Old 12-28-2011, 02:02 PM    (permalink
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Why doesn't this guy have a youtube highlight clilp?
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Old 12-28-2011, 02:42 PM    (permalink
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Just watched some Alameda Ta'amu tape... he looks awesome. HUGE. And is often the first one off the snap. Has an explosive first step and just knocks offensive linemen backwards. He makes them actually look kind of helpless, and it's all they can do just to redirect his momentum, nevermind moving him out of a running lane. So until I can find some film of Poe, I'm going with Ta'amu, because he actually looks like Ngata on film. Washington played him at some DE, too.
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Old 12-28-2011, 02:53 PM    (permalink
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I'm starting to like Ta'amu much more, and I think he can come in and contribute to a team right away. Poe will take a season or 2 before he can become a real force inside.
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