2012 New England Patriots Draft Discussion

[AntoinCD]

Originally Posted by ElectricEye

Randle is a pretty safe bet to measure in at 6'3(listed at 6'4 right now, LSU has traditionally only been an inch or so off) and run in the 4.4's. It's not about straight line speed/height with him though, it's the quickness in and out of his breaks and overall athleticism that makes him a first round candidate. No, those aren't Randy Moss numbers, but those are the type of numbers that get you picked in the first round if you have a solid track record of production against good competition, which Randle has. Measures up very well in terms of production to testing numbers against some guys who have been picked in that range in the past few years.

McNutt is a decent prospect, but guys like him either tend to disappear quickly. You have to be a gifted athlete to cut it at receiver in this league. There are exceptions, but there's a long list of guys who weren't exceptions as well. So in that regard, I wouldn't call McNutt super safe. There's a good chance he bounces around the league a lot.

There is that risk with McNutt but I feel like he has great technique and body control along with big strong hands. I really like McNutt though and think he could be a poor man's Brandon Marshall or Marques Colston

[ElectricEye]

Both of those guys posses vastly superior straight line speed, timing out in the low 4.5, high 4.4 range. McNutt will be lucky to run 4.6....and in spite of Jerry Rice and Anquan Boldin stories(both of those taking poetic license in the first place), guys who are that slow typically don't cut it in the NFL. Especially if they have the heavy feet McNutt has.

[AntoinCD]

Originally Posted by ElectricEye

Both of those guys posses vastly superior straight line speed, timing out in the low 4.5, high 4.4 range. McNutt will be lucky to run 4.6....and in spite of Jerry Rice and Anquan Boldin stories(both of those taking poetic license in the first place), guys who are that slow typically don't cut it in the NFL. Especially if they have the heavy feet McNutt has.

I don't by any means expect McNutt to become even an above average WR like these guys but he definitely has a role in the NFL IMO. He's the type of guy who can simply bully CBs in press man coverage and use his body to make the catch. His size is also a big plus. He isn't going to run away from anyone but he doesn't necessarily need to. I am in no way comparing McNutt to Fitz but how often does he leave DBs in his dust? Quite a lot of his catches are contested and he simply uses his body better than the DB and high points the ball. I think McNutt could become a consistent 50 catch, 500/600 yard guy especially if he goes to a team where he won't be asked to be a #1 or #2. For the Pats I think it's a great fit. Welker, Gronk, Hernandez etc will all take away coverage and the better players. McNutt against Kyle Wilson of the Jets? I'd like them chances with a QB as accurate as Brady.

[AntoinCD]

I thought since EE has done a few great write ups on WRs I'd try a few on possible safeties this year. A lot of people think Mark Barron has a great chance at being selected by the Pats so here goes;

Positives:

-Prototypical size for a safety these days. Will measure in at around 6'2 215lbs.
-Good straight line speed for a player his size.
-Big hitter and will intimidate WRs from going across the middle of the field.
-Extremely well coached and played his whole collegiate career in an NFL styled defense.
-Understands zone concepts well and can read the QBs eyes,
-Played and excelled against elite competition.
-Great work ethic and leader of a defensive backfield that will produce multiple NFL players

Negatives:

-Can play indisciplined at times. Will bite on play action and misdirection plays.
-Too often will try for the knockout hit instead of wrapping up.
-Will not be effective in man coverage at the next level.
-Probably isn't able to be a true centrefielder limiting his versatility(SS only???)
-At times will rely on his athletic ability and therefore take poor angles to the ball. Two great examples are in last year's games against Arkansas and Auburn.

Overall:

I'm not the biggest fan of Barron. I always thought he was a tad overrated and see him more of a solid second round player. He has a lot of tools that NFL teams will love. For the Patriots I can understand why everyone is putting him there. I just don't like the fit. I'm not sure there is much of a difference between Barron and Chung and the Patriots can not afford to have two players without ideal coverage ability on the field at the same time.

[AntoinCD]

Robert Lester

Pros:

-Very good size for a FS prospect. Will come in at around 6'1 210lbs.
-Can play the centre field position as well as anyone in college at the minute.
-Finds his way to the ball and makes plays on the ball.
-10 career INTs shows he has good hands and offers return ability.
-Played in an NFL style defense under Nick Saban.
-Good work ethic.
-Is athletic enough to cover in man adequately but is excellent in zone coverage.
-Played against the best in college football and excelled.

Cons:

-Limited to playing FS. Will seldom lay a big hit that jars ball carriers.
-Slow to attack running lanes-maybe because his safety partner Mark Barron is more adept at playing in the box.
-Will often try to make a big play when he should just prevent big plays against the defense.
-Has good, not great hips. Better suited to stay deep and read the QBs eyes rather than cover WRs or TEs.
-Isn't the most disciplined player when it comes to resposnibilities. Doesn't freelance to the extent of a Troy Polamalu but often you can tell he doesn't stick to his assignment in an attempt to make something happen.

Overall:

I like Lester quite a bit for the Patriots although I'm not sure he is the type Belichick will go for. He doesn't offer the versatility BB likes in his safeties and offers little as a nickleback. However with Pat Chung in the lineup he can play to his strengths more in the box and covering TEs and Lester can play the deep middle. The reason I like Lester is because he makes plays on the ball, not the man. He sometimes misses and gives up a big play which is something BB will not stand for be he could be a difference maker in the right system. I would be very intrigued with him in the middle of the second round.

[descendency]

I want either Lester or Markelle Martin. Dontari Poe on the DL as a huge upside guy would be nice as well, but he's on the kind of small side, sadly.

[Vaylor]

Originally Posted by descendency

I want either Lester or Markelle Martin. Dontari Poe on the DL as a huge upside guy would be nice as well, but he's on the kind of small side, sadly.

Err what? Dontari Poe is listed at 6'5 350 on his Bio at the Memphis website. I can't imagine his true size is far away from that.

[descendency]

Originally Posted by Vaylor

Err what? Dontari Poe is listed at 6'5 350 on his Bio at the Memphis website. I can't imagine his true size is far away from that.

For some reason, my brain remembered 6'2" 330. Then again, I've seen people listed at UF and The U drop 3-4 inches.

[Nalej]

The thought of having D.Poe next to Wilfork is my new wet dream. Make it happen, Capt!

[ElectricEye]

Originally Posted by descendency

For some reason, my brain remembered 6'2" 330. Then again, I've seen people listed at UF and The U drop 3-4 inches.

Over the past few years, the few Memphis players drafted have only been off by half an inch or so. It's actually harder and harder to find schools that still do those sort of things.

[Razor]

I've got a question for all of you: If Quinton Coples is sitting there at our first pick, do we take him? I mean, he has the size and strength to play two gap DE. He needs to bulk up some 15-20 lbs in order to be able to anchor against the run, but still... He has played extensively at DT as a junior. I know he has some issues with his motor this season, but going into this year his motor was one of his good traits. I don't know what happened this year, but I'm pretty sure that's not what to expect from him as a pro.

[AntoinCD]

Originally Posted by Razor

I've got a question for all of you: If Quinton Coples is sitting there at our first pick, do we take him? I mean, he has the size and strength to play two gap DE. He needs to bulk up some 15-20 lbs in order to be able to anchor against the run, but still... He has played extensively at DT as a junior. I know he has some issues with his motor this season, but going into this year his motor was one of his good traits. I don't know what happened this year, but I'm pretty sure that's not what to expect from him as a pro.

I would be surprised if BB drafted Coples. It's similar to what people started saying last year about Bowers IMO. If he bulks up that extra 15lbs you don't know what his explosion will be like and he doesn't play consistently with the leverage needed to suceed at 5 technique. Plus, if he does bulk up it probably stops him being a successful DE when they shift to a 4 man front.

[AntoinCD]

Markelle Martin:


Positives:

-Good size, not great but definitely big enough to play safety
-Has versatility
-Can play centerfield and roam in the defensive backfield
-Can lay the wood when necessary
-Offers a lot on special teams
-Can come up and support the run but is better deep
-Played in a pass happy conference and will be used to being thrown at
-Above average speed and athleticism
-Hard worker and a film room junkie

Negatives:

-Instincts aren't great and makes up with his speed at times
-Is probably too small to cover TEs
-Poor ball skills. Is more likely to knock balls down than make INTs
-Limited upside
-Needs to wrap up better when tackling. Despite his smaller stature he tends to go for huge hits


Overall:

I like Martin for the Patriots towards the bottom of the second. He will test very well in the offseason but may never turn into a pro bowl caliber player. His work ethic and ability to contribute on special teams will probably endear him to BB. Pairing him with Chung would give the Pats two athletic safeties with a bit of versatility. Would play the Ihedigbo role in the defense most times. If he had better hands he would probably be a late first round prospect

[nepg]

I'm a big Martin fan.

[AntoinCD]

Kenny Vaccaro:

Positives:

-Excellent size, likely to measure in at 6'1 215lbs
-Above average athleticism
-Fluid hips and can play either man or zone
-Offers quite a bit as a nickleback
-Can come up and support the run
-Can play FS and SS
-Very big hitter but also knows to wrap up when necessary
-Offers a lot on special teams
-Believes in himself and has a short memory

Negatives:

-Possible character concerns
-Doesn't have great hands and only has 3 career INTs at Texas
-Not a big playmaker
-Won't always play disciplined
-Could do a better job reading the QBs eyes in zone coverage

Overall:

Vaccaro is a pretty similar prospect to Martin IMO. Both highly athletic guys who will be solid NFL starters but may never be stars. What Martin has in film study and reaction time Vaccaro makes up for with great instincts. Neither though will be big playmakers. Special teams ability will help Vaccaro in the draft, particularly with a team like the Patriots however he will more than likely be a late second/early third type guy. Definitely a big upgrade over any safety not named Chung but not someone I would be jumping for joy over if we drafted him.

[descendency]

Thoughts on Ben Jones (Center, Georgia). He needs to work on his leverage a bit, but he has the size to be a great C in the NFL against 34 teams.

I'm starting to think he's a really good player for NE.

I'm a big fan of Martin and of Robert Lester.

I'm really liking what I am seeing from this Brandon Boykin guy.

[Nalej]

I haven't been able to follow college football the way I would have liked this year (had a lil' boy before the college season started)
but I keep seeing A.Jeffery sliding to the early 2nd rd. Would you guy be upset if we used one of our 1st on him if he slid to us?
I remember him last year in his monster year. I see his stats declined heavily but don't know why.
He had a great game in the bowl game before being ejected... so what' the deal with him?
I would assume he would be a monster in our offense

[FlyingElvis]

Originally Posted by Nalej

I haven't been able to follow college football the way I would have liked this year (had a lil' boy before the college season started)
but I keep seeing A.Jeffery sliding to the early 2nd rd. Would you guy be upset if we used one of our 1st on him if he slid to us?
I remember him last year in his monster year. I see his stats declined heavily but don't know why.
He had a great game in the bowl game before being ejected... so what' the deal with him?
I would assume he would be a monster in our offense

To get your answer, type his name into google and see what the first search que is after his name.

[Razor]

Originally Posted by FlyingElvis

To get your answer, type his name into google and see what the first search que is after his name.

I lol'd. :) I'll be furious if we take him. We'll never take him though, he just doesn't fit in..

[FlyingElvis]

Originally Posted by Razor

I lol'd. :) I'll be furious if we take him. We'll never take him though, he just doesn't fit in..

I went to search for it and lol'd myself when I saw it was the first option. That's when I figured it was best to not answer directly . . . it's more fun to go and do it yourself.

[descendency]

Alshon Jeffery could be a better player than Big Mike Williams if he had some direction.

So could Big Mike Williams.

[Matthew Jones]

Originally Posted by descendency

Alshon Jeffery could be a better player than Big Mike Williams if he had some direction.

So could Big Mike Williams.

Drafting Alshon Jeffery would be out of character for Belichick. Jeffery should wind up getting multiple flags and New England's draft board generally consists of only 50 or 60 players who the team feels are fits.

[descendency]

Mike Williams (TE - Alabama) looks like a good 5th-6th round TE to draft as a blocker. Not a flashy WR, but he blocks like an OT and in their offense, catching any passes probably means Tom Brady can make you look like Dallas Clark.

[Razor]

This is more in the 2013 NE Patriots Draft section, but Michael Brockers makes my man accessories tingle... I want him soooo bad.

[descendency]

I want Mathieu in 2013. Not in Round 1, but eventually. He reminds me of a small Charles Woodson.

edit: He'd be a nightmare in the slot.