The Official Kansas City Chiefs General Discussion Thread - Page 82

nepg · 12-06-2011, 08:34 AM

Haha

Have to get past the Jets before anything. Hopefully they can turn a ****** win into momentum for a run. The offense is frustrating. Defenses can't cover their receivers, but the line isn't holding up or the play calling isn't taking advantage or the QB isn't making the throw.

Also, the ruining game is done.

villagewarrior · 12-26-2011, 10:06 PM

So if I'm Scott Pioli, I'd go hire Gregg Williams as my head coach. Previous head coaching experience, successful coordinating defenses everywhere he's been, Missouri native who presumeably would want to coach the Kansas City Chiefs. Only negative is he would likely want to switch back to a 4-3, Houston and Hali might be a little undersized to be your base ends. Hopefully Williams could hire a 3-4 coordinator (Romeo probably won't stay if he's not head coach, IMO) so the Chiefs don't have to spend a year or two transitioning.

Second thing, if I'm the new head coach, I'm asking Scott to get me a quarterback, either Andrew Luck or Robert Griffin 3. I'm not interested in giving up 3 first round picks, let alone 6, but I would be willing to part with 2 and additional picks and a player, maybe the rights to Dwayne Bowe would do the trick. I'm thinking the Rams have their quarterback already, they could stand to make a trade and accumulate more young players.

Third, I want to go to camp with 4 quarterbacks: Stanzi, Cassel, Orton/FA Veteran QB, and Luck/Griffin. 4 players, 3 positions to be competed for. Chiefs also need to secure a running back, an offensive tackle, upgrade inside backer (Siler?), and add another corner (can't have too many).

I'm done.

vidae · 12-27-2011, 06:46 PM

Tamba Hali and Derrick Johnson named to the Pro-Bowl. I'm upset that Champ is going over Flowers, but I'm glad DJ finally made it. He is one of the best ILBs in the game.

And no one from our offense deserved to go.

Splat · 12-27-2011, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by villagewarrior

Second thing, if I'm the new head coach, I'm asking Scott to get me a quarterback, either Andrew Luck or Robert Griffin 3.

My God people that ship has sailed move on. There is NO WAY what so ever Luck will ever be a Chief.

vidae · 12-27-2011, 11:17 PM

You don't know that. If the Colts miss out on Luck I could see the Rams dealing the #1 pick. Is it likely? No. Is it possible? Sure.

nepg · 12-28-2011, 05:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by villagewarrior

So if I'm Scott Pioli, I'd go hire Gregg Williams as my head coach. Previous head coaching experience, successful coordinating defenses everywhere he's been, Missouri native who presumeably would want to coach the Kansas City Chiefs. Only negative is he would likely want to switch back to a 4-3, Houston and Hali might be a little undersized to be your base ends. Hopefully Williams could hire a 3-4 coordinator (Romeo probably won't stay if he's not head coach, IMO) so the Chiefs don't have to spend a year or two transitioning.

Gregg Williams is terrible. Spending any time transitioning is a bad way to go for this team. They need to just stick with Romeo and fix the offensive coaching situation.

This is a team that had everything go wrong this season and is still in a position to finish the season with 7 wins. They had 10 wins last year with a ton of holes on the roster. They're a good off-season away from being a really good team.

Splat · 12-28-2011, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vidae

You don't know that. If the Colts miss out on Luck I could see the Rams dealing the #1 pick. Is it likely? No. Is it possible? Sure.

As of today there are 8 teams with a worse record than the Chiefs. I don't see any way what so ever they could/would move up that far in the draft.

On top of that the team would have to want to trade down which is highly unlikely with a player like Luck on the board.

vidae · 12-28-2011, 09:10 PM

If you're the Rams you have a franchise caliber QB and a ton of holes everywhere else. And 9 to 1 is a big jump? The Jets moved up 20 spots a few years ago to select Sanchez. If you're a franchise QB, teams will move up for you.

Hermstheman83 · 12-28-2011, 10:33 PM

Personally, I would love to keep Romeo as the Head Coach. I think we have that system that he was successful in "The Patriot" way. He's made this defense into a legitamite one. I often wonder if this constant coaching changes are hurting the young talent on this team. So I would like us to keep the same coaching staff. I mean, we whipped the Packers with this same system, why wouldn't you think with an off-season under their belt, they wouldn't be at least more deadly?

Hermstheman83 · 12-28-2011, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vidae

If you're the Rams you have a franchise caliber QB and a ton of holes everywhere else. And 9 to 1 is a big jump? The Jets moved up 20 spots a few years ago to select Sanchez. If you're a franchise QB, teams will move up for you.

I think we're competing against the redskins and a few other teams. No way Pioli gives up what's needed to get Luck, or RGIII. If I were the Rams, I'd make sure the team that's moving up is getting bent over and making sure I forgot the lube.

vidae · 12-29-2011, 02:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hermstheman83

Personally, I would love to keep Romeo as the Head Coach. I think we have that system that he was successful in "The Patriot" way. He's made this defense into a legitamite one. I often wonder if this constant coaching changes are hurting the young talent on this team. So I would like us to keep the same coaching staff. I mean, we whipped the Packers with this same system, why wouldn't you think with an off-season under their belt, they wouldn't be at least more deadly?

Few things: I'm so sick of this "Patriots Way" ********. It's so overused by everyone at 1 Arrowhead Drive and the media in KC that it's just ridiculous. People need to get over that.

Second, our defense was blown out in multiple games. Scapegoat the offense if you'd like, but you still have to go out and play football.

I'd be fine with RAC as the HC here as long as the entire offensive coaching staff (sans Zorn) is fired. No one on that side of the ball deserves to keep their job. And neither does Steve Hoffman for that matter. You want to keep the D intact? Fine, but the rest of these so called "coaches" have to go.

And lastly, the same team that beat the Packers is the same team that got blown out by the Lions, Bills, Dolphins (who were winless), Patriots and Jets. We need to do a lot more improvement than most people are willing to admit.

nepg · 12-29-2011, 06:01 AM

The term "Patriot Way" does get overused and most people don't even know what it's all about. It's not even the "Patriot" Way, it's what all great franchises in the NFL have been built upon in the salary cap era. Team first players, strong locker rooms, having every individual from the owner down to the water boy on board with a singular, synergistic plan for success.

Steelers do it, Packers do it, Patriots do it, Saints do it, Colts do it, etc. Pioli has built that in KC, but **** just didn't go right this year. Lock-out really hurt the organization and they didn't get a great result on the field. But they never lost that singularity.

There were a couple games where it was the defense that just fell apart without the offense having given them no reason to even show up in the second half. Notably, the Miami game. The other being the Jets.

The Lions and Bills games... There was just nothing good about them other than they happened early in the season rather than later. Those two are on the offensive coaches.

Gutting the offensive coaching staff just sounds really bad. They have a lot of good guys on that side of the ball. Muir is a great OL coach, Carthon is probably the best RB coach in the NFL, and Zorn is probably solid (really tough to tell what kind of impact he had). The only thing is that they've all been failures as playcallers and designers of offenses. I don't even hate Muir's playcalling, I just think the offense is terribly designed and his personnel packages are bad. He usually makes the right call on what kind of play to run, imo.

vidae · 12-29-2011, 10:36 AM

If Muir is still the OC of this team next year it's going to be another losing effort. The complexity of the NFL game has passed him by. And to be honest, he isn't even that great of an OL coach. This is the guy that has trotted Barry Richardson out as a starter two years in a row and he hasn't improved at all.

No thank you. Carthon is the Assistant HC (at least he was under Haley) so I'd be ok with him sticking around, and Zorn, because I think he is a good QB coach, but the rest of these ***** need to be shown the door and soon.

TheMatriculator · 12-29-2011, 11:49 AM

Well, I'll say this, if Muir was the OC next year he'd be more effective because he wouldn't have Haley looking over his shoulder and micro-managing the offense but that's not gonna happen because there is no way that Muir stays on as the OC.

Zorn was a Haley hire (according to the book War Room) so he's probably gone, too. Ultimately decisions on the offensive coaching staff should be made by the HC and the new OC.

Carthon had a reputation of being Haley's snitch so he's probably gone as Asst. HC. Every HC wants his guy in that job.

Steve Hoffman...GONE. He might be a kicking guru but hasn't shown much as a special teams coach (two blocked FGs in one game...come on, man).

Splat · 12-29-2011, 12:22 PM

Emmitt Thomas needs to stay.

villagewarrior · 12-29-2011, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vidae

And lastly, the same team that beat the Packers is the same team that got blown out by the Lions, Bills, Dolphins (who were winless), Patriots and Jets. We need to do a lot more improvement than most people are willing to admit.

This. I like Romeo, I wouldn't be mad if he were retained, but the Chiefs have a lot of work to do to be considered a very good team.

Also, I'm not sold specifically on Williams, but I do hope that Pioli goes outside of his cellphone to find a coach.

nepg · 12-29-2011, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMatriculator

Well, I'll say this, if Muir was the OC next year he'd be more effective because he wouldn't have Haley looking over his shoulder and micro-managing the offense but that's not gonna happen because there is no way that Muir stays on as the OC.

The big complaint I have with Muir is his schemes are way too simple and easy to read (even though I think he almost always called the right kind of play). The Chiefs were most effective moving the ball when Cassel called the plays and made adjustments in the no-huddle offense. This is because Cassel had more power to adjust the plays to counter the defense than he did in normal situations.

Quote:

Zorn was a Haley hire (according to the book War Room) so he's probably gone, too. Ultimately decisions on the offensive coaching staff should be made by the HC and the new OC.

I honestly don't know what to think of Zorn in KC.

Quote:

Carthon had a reputation of being Haley's snitch so he's probably gone as Asst. HC. Every HC wants his guy in that job.

Carthon is also a Romeo guy. He was the OC in Cleveland (very bad one).

Quote:

Steve Hoffman...GONE. He might be a kicking guru but hasn't shown much as a special teams coach (two blocked FGs in one game...come on, man).

I think we're killing him on one game.

nepg · 12-29-2011, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by villagewarrior

Also, I'm not sold specifically on Williams, but I do hope that Pioli goes outside of his cellphone to find a coach.

The funniest part about people complaining about Pioli going with Patriot guys is that he went with a non-Patriot guy in Haley already. And the Patriots guys he's brought in (Romeo, Weis, Pleasant) have been the guys people have been really happy with in KC.

vidae · 12-29-2011, 06:15 PM

I mean, if we're being honest our special teams has never been GREAT.. at best it's been okay, and at worst it has cost us a few games the last two years.. so, he should be let go.

KCStud · 12-29-2011, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vidae

I mean, if we're being honest our special teams has never been GREAT.. at best it's been okay, and at worst it has cost us a few games the last two years.. so, he should be let go.

Not really. Arenas is 3rd in the NFL in punt return average, Colquitt is a top 10 punter and Succop came one kick shy of breaking the franchise record for kicks made in a row.

Our coverage units need help, but our ST's has actually won us games too (see SD season opener in 2010 and Vikings game this season).

nepg · 12-29-2011, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vidae

I mean, if we're being honest our special teams has never been GREAT.. at best it's been okay, and at worst it has cost us a few games the last two years.. so, he should be let go.

Fair enough. I think it's been a solid unit with room to improve.

TheMatriculator · 12-29-2011, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nepg

I think we're killing him on one game.

A. Two kicks blocked in one game by the same guy! Inexcusable on the NFL level. You remember when the Cowboys kicker missed a chip shot field goal and Jimmy Johnson not only cut him immediately after the game but made him take a separate flight home. That's how I feel about Hoffman. As soon as the first kick was blocked, the ST coach goes to the still pictures and figures out why. If he can't figure it out or doesn't care, we need a new ST coach.

B. It's not just one game or did you forget the Packer game, a victory despite the STs. J.Horne, Roughing the Kicker. M.Crosby 59 yard field goal is No Good, Wide Right. PENALTY on KC, Defensive 12 On-field, rekick.

C. Like I said, he's supposed to be a kicking guru, keep him on as kicking coach and hire someone to coach the rest of the special teams.

D. I can't believe you are defending this guy.

nepg · 12-29-2011, 08:20 PM

How is saying "I think we're killing him on one game" defending the guy?

Up until I said that, no one was bringing up anything but those two blocked field goals.

Yeah, you have to be aware of Richard Seymour whenever you line up for a kick. He might have the most blocked kicks in NFL history. Not much of an excuse for the coach or the player(s) responsible on that second one (first one...still sucks, but **** happens).

Penalties have been an issue for the entire team this season. Not to pile on the guy who's already gone, but that's on Haley.

Maybe they can do a lot better than Hoffman, but ST just hasn't been an area that's been all that weak for this team the last two years. Change is a volatile thing, especially when there's a lot of good things about what you're going away from. So I'm usually pretty cautious of brash changes.

villagewarrior · 12-29-2011, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nepg

The funniest part about people complaining about Pioli going with Patriot guys is that he went with a non-Patriot guy in Haley already. And the Patriots guys he's brought in (Romeo, Weis, Pleasant) have been the guys people have been really happy with in KC.

Good point, but at the same time, Pioli forced Patriot guys on Haley as his coordinators as well as a Patriot guy as his quarterback. Who knows how the Haley tenure would've worked out if he had been able to pick his own people. Even Chan Gailey was a holdover from the past regime.

nepg · 12-30-2011, 02:04 AM

Todd had to give the green light on Cassel. Haley was impressed with Cassel, and was more than happy to have him as his QB.

Pioli didn't force any QBs on Haley.

Crennel and Weis were supposed to make Haley's job easier because he had problems getting his staff right the first year. Weis was probably a bad choice because of their personalities, but Haley still couldn't manage a staff in year 3.

Most of the year 1 staff was Haley's choice. If I recall correctly, it was even his choice to keep Chan.