Draft Countdown Forums

Go Back   Draft Countdown Forums > Draft Countdown Forums > Team Boards > San Francisco 49ers Team Forum

San Francisco 49ers Team Forum Discuss the 49ers

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-02-2012, 09:41 PM    (permalink
Rabscuttle
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,494
Reputation: 198018
Rabscuttle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rabscuttle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rabscuttle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rabscuttle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rabscuttle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rabscuttle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rabscuttle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rabscuttle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rabscuttle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rabscuttle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rabscuttle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ness View Post
Did you folks see Jim Harbaugh's entire press conference? Seemed like an asshole.

Harbaugh has worked miracles here, and I know he's not out to make friends, but I don't think it's a little much to ask that you just "play the game" with the media. Harbaugh is going to have to do this for a long time. Might as well get used to it. I probably wouldn't like the media either, but acting like a douchebag isn't going to help.
He's just channelling his inner Bill Walsh. There's probably some Youtube vids up of classic Walsh tearing into douchebag reporters (probably a few of the same ones Harbaugh is taking issues with) if you want some consolation.
Rabscuttle is offline  
Old 01-03-2012, 12:35 AM    (permalink
Ness
Icon
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: California
Posts: 19,829
Reputation: 2087562
Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by phlysac View Post
But that's the thing, you've predicted the 49ers to lose nearly every single game this season. You say you'd "rather win."... Well 13-3 and you're still saying the same things as you did last year. Obviously it's not winning that will make you happy.
I predicated the 49ers to win last week and the week before that. And against the Steelers if I remember correctly. And I've stayed home and watched the game on my computer 13 times this year. Every time I've gone out, we've lost. I'm normally not into superstitions, but I'll be home watching every potential game for the 49ers in the playoffs.

13-3 is a great accomplishment sure. I've had fun this season for the most part. I haven't enjoyed our offense play as much as our defense though. I've just seen plenty of 13-3 teams (or around that record) with our kind of makeup go one and done in the playoffs. We've come this far and have a good opportunity to go get a Super Bowl now. It's time to go for the gold. So I'm going to be critical.
__________________

"Every light must fade, every heart return to darkness!"
-San Francisco 49ers: Five Time Super Bowl Champions-
Quote:
Originally Posted by Borat View Post
Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.

Last edited by Ness : 01-03-2012 at 12:40 AM.
Ness is offline  
Old 01-03-2012, 09:41 AM    (permalink
phlysac
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 8,281
Reputation: 1713790
phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ness View Post
13-3 is a great accomplishment sure. I've had fun this season for the most part. I haven't enjoyed our offense play as much as our defense though. I've just seen plenty of 13-3 teams (or around that record) with our kind of makeup go one and done in the playoffs. We've come this far and have a good opportunity to go get a Super Bowl now. It's time to go for the gold. So I'm going to be critical.
Teams like last year's Saints, handful of Brady's Patriot's teams, Manning's Colts, Chargers, etc, etc "high-powered offenses" have gone one-and-done as well.
__________________
phlysac is offline  
Old 01-03-2012, 01:59 PM    (permalink
Ness
Icon
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: California
Posts: 19,829
Reputation: 2087562
Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by phlysac View Post
Teams like last year's Saints, handful of Brady's Patriot's teams, Manning's Colts, Chargers, etc, etc "high-powered offenses" have gone one-and-done as well.
True, but those teams are at least in the playoffs every single season thanks to a consistent offense with a good quarterback. Good defenses are harder to keep together.
__________________

"Every light must fade, every heart return to darkness!"
-San Francisco 49ers: Five Time Super Bowl Champions-
Quote:
Originally Posted by Borat View Post
Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.
Ness is offline  
Old 01-03-2012, 02:31 PM    (permalink
binary
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,528
Reputation: 49479
binary is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.binary is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.binary is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.binary is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.binary is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.binary is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.binary is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.binary is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.binary is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.binary is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.binary is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Pats, Giants, Bucs, Ravens, Steelers, are all recent teams that won without dominant QB play....just saying. It's a myth that you need a dominant QB to win one.
__________________
binary is offline  
Old 01-03-2012, 05:57 PM    (permalink
phlysac
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 8,281
Reputation: 1713790
phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ness View Post
Good defenses are harder to keep together.
I just don't see that. Teams like the Steelers, Ravens, Bears, Giants, etc, have had success for decades with multitudes of QBs simply because they keep a defensive philosophy and draft players to fit within it.
__________________
phlysac is offline  
Old 01-03-2012, 06:16 PM    (permalink
Ness
Icon
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: California
Posts: 19,829
Reputation: 2087562
Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by phlysac View Post
I just don't see that. Teams like the Steelers, Ravens, Bears, Giants, etc, have had success for decades with multitudes of QBs simply because they keep a defensive philosophy and draft players to fit within it.
Steelers and Ravens have franchise quarterbacks though. Before Flacco, the Ravens didn't have four straight winning seasons in a row like they have had since he has been with the team. If the Steelers were rolling with another journeyman like Tommy Maddox, Kent Graham, Mike Tomczak, Neil O'Donnell, etc I doubt they the success they've had this decade. That worked in the 90's before the NFL was a passing league like it is now and the rules favor the offense.

The Bears are always good one season and then suck the next because of terrible quarterback play. We saw what happened this season when Culter went down. Since 1996, they've only had two winning seasons back to back.

The Giants haven't been great defensively this last decade at least like the Steelers and Ravens are year in and year out.

This is what I loved about the 49ers of the 90's. Great quarterback, great offense and we were in the playoffs every single damn year. It was a guarantee as long as Steve Young played the majority of the season. We had good defensive play too though. If you have a weak side of the ball though I'm always going to be pro offense instead of defense. Especially in today's league. Look what the Packers are doing with the NFL's 30th ranked defense.
__________________

"Every light must fade, every heart return to darkness!"
-San Francisco 49ers: Five Time Super Bowl Champions-
Quote:
Originally Posted by Borat View Post
Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.

Last edited by Ness : 01-03-2012 at 06:25 PM.
Ness is offline  
Old 01-03-2012, 07:00 PM    (permalink
phlysac
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 8,281
Reputation: 1713790
phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ness View Post
Steelers and Ravens have franchise quarterbacks though. Before Flacco, the Ravens didn't have four straight winning seasons in a row like they have had since he has been with the team. If the Steelers were rolling with another journeyman like Tommy Maddox, Kent Graham, Mike Tomczak, Neil O'Donnell, etc I doubt they the success they've had this decade. That worked in the 90's before the NFL was a passing league like it is now and the rules favor the offense.

The Bears are always good one season and then suck the next because of terrible quarterback play. We saw what happened this season when Culter went down. Since 1996, they've only had two winning seasons back to back.

The Giants haven't been great defensively this last decade at least like the Steelers and Ravens are year in and year out.

This is what I loved about the 49ers of the 90's. Great quarterback, great offense and we were in the playoffs every single damn year. It was a guarantee as long as Steve Young played the majority of the season. We had good defensive play too though. If you have a weak side of the ball though I'm always going to be pro offense instead of defense. Especially in today's league. Look what the Packers are doing with the NFL's 30th ranked defense.
I'm really not trying to argue with everything but, I see it differently...

What are these "offensive powerhouse" teams that have been winning a bunch of Super Bowls?

Packers? - One Super Bowl... had the #2 scoring defense last season.

Saints? One Super Bowl... Had the highest Turnover ratio in the NFL that season... and they lost to the 7-9 Seahawks the following playoffs.

Steelers? - Consistently elite defense. One of their SB wins came with a run-control, efficient passing system.

Giants? - Beat the "offensive powerhouse" by utilizing a high-pressure defense and timely offense.

Colts? - One Super Bowl... and their playoff run was with a surging defense that ended up being #1 in the NFL the following season.

Patriots? - No Super Bowls in 7 seasons. When they were a "dynasty" they had a tremendously formidable defense.
__________________
phlysac is offline  
Old 01-03-2012, 07:22 PM    (permalink
Ness
Icon
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: California
Posts: 19,829
Reputation: 2087562
Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by phlysac View Post
I'm really not trying to argue with everything but, I see it differently...

What are these "offensive powerhouse" teams that have been winning a bunch of Super Bowls?

Packers? - One Super Bowl... had the #2 scoring defense last season.

Saints? One Super Bowl... Had the highest Turnover ratio in the NFL that season... and they lost to the 7-9 Seahawks the following playoffs.

Steelers? - Consistently elite defense. One of their SB wins came with a run-control, efficient passing system.

Giants? - Beat the "offensive powerhouse" by utilizing a high-pressure defense and timely offense.

Colts? - One Super Bowl... and their playoff run was with a surging defense that ended up being #1 in the NFL the following season.

Patriots? - No Super Bowls in 7 seasons. When they were a "dynasty" they had a tremendously formidable defense.
If we look at the last five Super Bowl winners though, they've all had top ten offense for the most part. Or rather, offenses that could put out a top ten offensive performance on any given day led by big game quarterbacks.

2010 - Aaron Rodgers

2009 - Drew Brees

2008 - Ben Roethlisberger

2007 - Elli Manning

2006 - Peyton Manning

All of these guys have had big games against good teams and played well for four quarters and dominated. Alex hasn't done that yet. The closest this season was against the Eagles and Giants. One was a comeback though. We need to see more games like that. Maybe it's partly Harbaugh. He needs to put the game in Alex's hands more often.
__________________

"Every light must fade, every heart return to darkness!"
-San Francisco 49ers: Five Time Super Bowl Champions-
Quote:
Originally Posted by Borat View Post
Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.
Ness is offline  
Old 01-03-2012, 07:46 PM    (permalink
phlysac
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 8,281
Reputation: 1713790
phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ness View Post
If we look at the last five Super Bowl winners though, they've all had top ten offense for the most part. Or rather, offenses that could put out a top ten offensive performance on any given day led by big game quarterbacks.

2010 - Aaron Rodgers

2009 - Drew Brees

2008 - Ben Roethlisberger

2007 - Elli Manning

2006 - Peyton Manning

All of these guys have had big games against good teams and played well for four quarters and dominated. Alex hasn't done that yet. The closest this season was against the Eagles and Giants. One was a comeback though. We need to see more games like that. Maybe it's partly Harbaugh. He needs to put the game in Alex's hands more often.
But you're comparing apples to oranges. All-time elite QBs in pass happy offenses to a solid mistake-free QB in a conservative offense.

This team is very much like the 2005 Steelers. As far as Roethlisberger being the type of QB that can throw for 400 yards and 4 TDs... He is... but he has lead the Steelers to fewer points per game than Alex Smith has lead the 49ers to.


I'm confident in saying that not a single soul would disagree with you that if the 49ers had a future HOF QB, that we'd be more confident in their offense.

That's not the point. The point is, Harbaugh wants efficient, mistake-free fottball that wins games. Smith gives him that. And with some good fortune, the 49ers are absolutely a contender.
__________________

Last edited by phlysac : 01-03-2012 at 07:48 PM.
phlysac is offline  
Old 01-03-2012, 09:09 PM    (permalink
Ness
Icon
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: California
Posts: 19,829
Reputation: 2087562
Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

They need to get better on 3rd down. I don't know if any team has won the Super Bowl with a 29% conversion rate on 3rd down.
__________________

"Every light must fade, every heart return to darkness!"
-San Francisco 49ers: Five Time Super Bowl Champions-
Quote:
Originally Posted by Borat View Post
Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.
Ness is offline  
Old 01-03-2012, 10:00 PM    (permalink
phlysac
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 8,281
Reputation: 1713790
phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ness View Post
They need to get better on 3rd down. I don't know if any team has won the Super Bowl with a 29% conversion rate on 3rd down.
They absolutely do. The difference between you and me is that I believe that is a team issue while you believe it's a QB issue.
__________________
phlysac is offline  
Old 01-03-2012, 10:05 PM    (permalink
Ness
Icon
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: California
Posts: 19,829
Reputation: 2087562
Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by phlysac View Post
They absolutely do. The difference between you and me is that I believe that is a team issue while you believe it's a QB issue.
I think you should at least consider the possibility that it might be more so a QB issue.
__________________

"Every light must fade, every heart return to darkness!"
-San Francisco 49ers: Five Time Super Bowl Champions-
Quote:
Originally Posted by Borat View Post
Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.
Ness is offline  
Old 01-04-2012, 12:27 AM    (permalink
phlysac
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 8,281
Reputation: 1713790
phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ness View Post
I think you should at least consider the possibility that it might be more so a QB issue.
I do. I said it's a team issue. More specifically an Offensive issue. The QB is a large part of Offensive production. Smith should be better. Smith has to get better. But the O-line, RBs, WRs, TEs, and play-calling are a part as well. Even if you split it 50/50 (which is absurd to think that Smith is 5 times more important than all of the other pieces) but even if you did, then Smith is only half to blame. That's my point.
__________________
phlysac is offline  
Old 01-04-2012, 12:34 AM    (permalink
Ness
Icon
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: California
Posts: 19,829
Reputation: 2087562
Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by phlysac View Post
I do. I said it's a team issue. More specifically an Offensive issue. The QB is a large part of Offensive production. Smith should be better. Smith has to get better. But the O-line, RBs, WRs, TEs, and play-calling are a part as well. Even if you split it 50/50 (which is absurd to think that Smith is 5 times more important than all of the other pieces) but even if you did, then Smith is only half to blame. That's my point.
The quarterback is always going to be the most important piece in today's NFL. Are you telling me Peyton Manning isn't five times more important than anyone else on the roster? I don't think that is so absurd.

I know you said it's a team issue. I'm telling you that you should consider the possibility that Alex is the main problem with the passing game and should eventually be replaced. That's not so much an entire team issue as it is an "individual player just not being very good" issue. This is why guys get benched for bad performances (not saying Alex deserves this, besides we don't have anyone else on the roster). Remember when Romo came in for Bledsoe in 2006? Team got instantly better. I'm not going to play the percentages game. A main problem is a main problem period. I'm saying you should consider that possibility of it being more so an individual issue instead of an entire team issue.

If we were to take Aaron Rodgers for example run him through this new offensive system in the same amount of time that Alex had this past offseason and learn the nuances, wouldn't you put your money on Rodgers being a lot better? Sometimes a good player is just a good player regardless of the other circumstances around them. That same logic applies to bad players.
__________________

"Every light must fade, every heart return to darkness!"
-San Francisco 49ers: Five Time Super Bowl Champions-
Quote:
Originally Posted by Borat View Post
Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.

Last edited by Ness : 01-04-2012 at 12:36 AM.
Ness is offline  
Old 01-04-2012, 12:38 AM    (permalink
phlysac
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 8,281
Reputation: 1713790
phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ness View Post
The quarterback is always going to be the most important piece in today's NFL. Are you telling me Peyton Manning isn't five times more important than anyone else on the roster? I don't think that is so absurd.

I know you said it's a team issue. I'm telling you that you should consider the possibility that Alex is the main problem with the passing game and should eventually be replaced. I'm not going to play the percentages game. A main problem is a main problem period. I'm saying you should consider that possibility.

If we were to take Aaron Rodgers for example run him through this new offensive system in the same amount of time that Alex had this past offseason and learn the nuances, wouldn't you put your money on Rodgers being a lot better? Sometimes a good player is just a good player regardless of the other circumstances around them. That same logic applies to bad players.
To combine your Peyton Manning point with Rodgers-point...

You're ignoring offensive philosophy. Peyton Manning is far more important to the Indianapolis than ANY QB will EVER be in a Harbaugh offense.

And Rodgers is a ridiculously good QB, but remove him, and you see what happens... the system maintains potency.

Harbaugh's system should maintain, regardless of who is at QB if... BIG IF... the QB is efficient and doesn't make mistakes. And those are two things that Smith has done.
__________________
phlysac is offline  
Old 01-04-2012, 12:46 AM    (permalink
Ness
Icon
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: California
Posts: 19,829
Reputation: 2087562
Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by phlysac View Post
To combine your Peyton Manning point with Rodgers-point...

You're ignoring offensive philosophy. Peyton Manning is far more important to the Indianapolis than ANY QB will EVER be in a Harbaugh offense.

And Rodgers is a ridiculously good QB, but remove him, and you see what happens... the system maintains potency.

Harbaugh's system should maintain, regardless of who is at QB if... BIG IF... the QB is efficient and doesn't make mistakes. And those are two things that Smith has done.
You can use a bunch of examples. We've seen what happens with good quarterbacks get hurt or whatever and are replaced. You can't just use the "oh it's the system" card.

What happened when Warren Moon left the Oilers? They sucked. Cody Carlson couldn't do **** in the same system.

You think Jaime Martin could have done what Warner did in 1999 in that system?

A lot of teams find good players as backups. Green Bay looks like it's the next one. Don't tell me guys like Rodgers and Brady are system players because their backups played well in a small amount of games. Rob Johnson did the same thing for the Jaguars and then bombed in Buffalo.

You put Alex Smith on the Giants, does he carry that team? I think if you put Peyton Manning on the Giants, he does. Doesn't matter what the system is. A good player is a good player period. This is why Montana didn't suck when he went to the Chiefs.
__________________

"Every light must fade, every heart return to darkness!"
-San Francisco 49ers: Five Time Super Bowl Champions-
Quote:
Originally Posted by Borat View Post
Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.
Ness is offline  
Old 01-04-2012, 01:32 AM    (permalink
binary
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,528
Reputation: 49479
binary is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.binary is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.binary is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.binary is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.binary is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.binary is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.binary is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.binary is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.binary is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.binary is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.binary is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ness View Post
Doesn't matter what the system is. A good player is a good player period.
It's both, most niner fans should know that by now.
__________________
binary is offline  
Old 01-04-2012, 09:16 AM    (permalink
Madirishman
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,424
Reputation: 88597
Madirishman is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Madirishman is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Madirishman is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Madirishman is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Madirishman is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Madirishman is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Madirishman is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Madirishman is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Madirishman is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Madirishman is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Madirishman is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by phlysac View Post

This team is very much like the 2005 Steelers. As far as Roethlisberger being the type of QB that can throw for 400 yards and 4 TDs... He is... but he has lead the Steelers to fewer points per game than Alex Smith has lead the 49ers to.
Agree. Good comparison. They have their limits but if they play their game, they will get W's.
__________________


Three NFC Conference Championship appearances in Harbaugh's First 3 Years
Operation 2014 Super Bowl Champions: In Progress with an amazing looking Draft class


"He who thinks he knows it all has the most to learn"
Madirishman is offline  
Old 01-04-2012, 09:45 AM    (permalink
phlysac
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 8,281
Reputation: 1713790
phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I don't believe that systems make players anymore than players make systems. As said, it is a combination of the two. Did Mike Furrey lead the NFL in catches because he was the most talented WR?
__________________
phlysac is offline  
Old 01-04-2012, 10:26 AM    (permalink
WhatWouldBillyBajemaDo?
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Near the home of the 2010 WORLD SERIES CHAMPION San Francisco Giants
Posts: 2,573
Reputation: 52306
WhatWouldBillyBajemaDo? is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.WhatWouldBillyBajemaDo? is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.WhatWouldBillyBajemaDo? is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.WhatWouldBillyBajemaDo? is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.WhatWouldBillyBajemaDo? is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.WhatWouldBillyBajemaDo? is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.WhatWouldBillyBajemaDo? is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.WhatWouldBillyBajemaDo? is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.WhatWouldBillyBajemaDo? is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.WhatWouldBillyBajemaDo? is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.WhatWouldBillyBajemaDo? is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Box scores from Eli and Big Ben's Super Bowl runs:
Eli
@TB 20/27 185 Yards 2 TD 0 INT Final Score: 24-14
@Dal 12/18 163 Yards 2 TD 0 INT Final Score: 21-17
@GB 21/40 251 Yards 0 TD 0 INT Final Score: 23-20
vs NE 19/34 255 Yards 2 TD 1 INT Final Score: 17-14

Big Ben:
(’08 Super Bowl)
vs SD 17/26 181 Yards 1 TD 0 INT Final Score 35-24
vs Bal 16/33 255 Yards 1 TD 0 INT Final Score 23-14
vs Ari 21/30 256 Yards 1 TD 1 INT Final Score 21-30

(’10 Super Bowl run)
vs Bal 19/32 226 Yards 2 TD 0 INT Final Score 31-24
vs NYJ 10/19 133 Yards 0 TD 2 INT Final Score 24-19
vs GNB 25/40 263 Yards 2 TD 2 INT Final Score….well they lost

One thing that stands out is no 300 yard games from either guy. They played efficient and turnover free football (well not Big Ben in last year's Super Bowl run). It is obvious that 49ers need to be more efficient in the red zone but in their last 2 games they went 5/8 (stats exclude Akers TD throw) in the red zone. It is a small sample size but when they needed TDs they came through during this mini stretch run towards the 2 seed. Hopefully it carries over in 2 weeks.

Last edited by WhatWouldBillyBajemaDo? : 01-04-2012 at 10:29 AM.
WhatWouldBillyBajemaDo? is offline  
Old 01-04-2012, 02:44 PM    (permalink
Ness
Icon
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: California
Posts: 19,829
Reputation: 2087562
Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhatWouldBillyBajemaDo? View Post
Box scores from Eli and Big Ben's Super Bowl runs:
Eli
@TB 20/27 185 Yards 2 TD 0 INT Final Score: 24-14
@Dal 12/18 163 Yards 2 TD 0 INT Final Score: 21-17
@GB 21/40 251 Yards 0 TD 0 INT Final Score: 23-20
vs NE 19/34 255 Yards 2 TD 1 INT Final Score: 17-14

Big Ben:
(’08 Super Bowl)
vs SD 17/26 181 Yards 1 TD 0 INT Final Score 35-24
vs Bal 16/33 255 Yards 1 TD 0 INT Final Score 23-14
vs Ari 21/30 256 Yards 1 TD 1 INT Final Score 21-30

(’10 Super Bowl run)
vs Bal 19/32 226 Yards 2 TD 0 INT Final Score 31-24
vs NYJ 10/19 133 Yards 0 TD 2 INT Final Score 24-19
vs GNB 25/40 263 Yards 2 TD 2 INT Final Score….well they lost

One thing that stands out is no 300 yard games from either guy. They played efficient and turnover free football (well not Big Ben in last year's Super Bowl run). It is obvious that 49ers need to be more efficient in the red zone but in their last 2 games they went 5/8 (stats exclude Akers TD throw) in the red zone. It is a small sample size but when they needed TDs they came through during this mini stretch run towards the 2 seed. Hopefully it carries over in 2 weeks.
No 300 yard games, true. But how did they do on third downs for example? How many times did they pass on third downs to move the chains? There are other key factors there in those games I'm sure.
__________________

"Every light must fade, every heart return to darkness!"
-San Francisco 49ers: Five Time Super Bowl Champions-
Quote:
Originally Posted by Borat View Post
Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.

Last edited by Ness : 01-04-2012 at 03:56 PM.
Ness is offline  
Old 01-04-2012, 04:56 PM    (permalink
phlysac
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 8,281
Reputation: 1713790
phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.phlysac is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ness View Post
No 300 yard games, true. But how did they do on third downs for example? How many times did they pass on third downs to move the chains? There are other key factors there in those games I'm sure.
If an Alex Smith-lead 49er's team leads the NFL in 3rd down completions for conversions next season will you simply look for something else to illuminate an argument that Smith can't win?
__________________
phlysac is offline  
Old 01-04-2012, 06:42 PM    (permalink
Menardo75
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 6,182
Reputation: 225875
Menardo75 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Menardo75 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Menardo75 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Menardo75 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Menardo75 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Menardo75 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Menardo75 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Menardo75 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Menardo75 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Menardo75 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Menardo75 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by phlysac View Post
If an Alex Smith-lead 49er's team leads the NFL in 3rd down completions for conversions next season will you simply look for something else to illuminate an argument that Smith can't win?
Yeah probably.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by 49erNation85 View Post
I dunno even half of those guys why did we sign them jeez.
Menardo75 is offline  
Old 01-04-2012, 06:45 PM    (permalink
Menardo75
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 6,182
Reputation: 225875
Menardo75 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Menardo75 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Menardo75 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Menardo75 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Menardo75 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Menardo75 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Menardo75 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Menardo75 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Menardo75 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Menardo75 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Menardo75 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

If the 49ers force their opponent to play their game they have a good chance of winning. That was one of the major points Mike Tomlin brought up about the monday night game. If they can control the game against the Packers and Saints they will have a good chance of winning. I don't think anybody will dispute the fact that the Niners need to avoid getting into a shoot out.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by 49erNation85 View Post
I dunno even half of those guys why did we sign them jeez.
Menardo75 is offline  
Closed Thread


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:08 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.