Why Isn't Anybody Talking about Montee Ball? - Page 4

energizerbunny · 12-26-2011, 02:33 AM

Its basically a case of Scheme discrimination, Wisconsin so often is flooded with NFL calibre offensive linemen that it has all most gotten to the point that NFL guys have stopped looking at the numbers these Badger backs are putting up.

Watch some of these holes these guys are running through, its not realistic at all to what they will face in the NFL.

The big question I have about Wisconsin, is why has no top HS running back talent from the South gone up there to run behind these guys. The numbers they would post would be numbing.

This scheme discrimination is the same kinda stuff that happened with the Florida Gator WRs in the Spurrier era.

energizerbunny · 12-26-2011, 02:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bald_81

What is Ball's ceiling and floor in terms of where he gets drafted? Does high as the second and low as the fifth sound about right?

I'd say mid 2- Mid 4, if he breaks 4.6.

As his Combine #'s will be way more important than his College stats.

However he does look much more explosive than the usual Badger back.

Bald_81 · 12-26-2011, 03:01 AM

I'd be shocked if he ran a 4.6 or above. He has great initial burst but the question is his long, breakaway speed. I would guess he runs between a 4.49-4.53 at the combine.

energizerbunny · 12-26-2011, 03:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bald_81

I'd be shocked if he ran a 4.6 or above. He has great initial burst but the question is his long, breakaway speed. I would guess he runs between a 4.49-4.53 at the combine.

Thats another reason Badger backs always always fall... big lumbering guys who run really,really slow at the combine... PJ Hill, John Clay come to mind.

Montee is really a hybrid between those big guys and Calhoun.

norcalgsr · 12-26-2011, 03:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by energizerbunny

I'd say mid 2- Mid 4, if he breaks 4.6.

As his Combine #'s will be way more important than his College stats.

However he does look much more explosive than the usual Badger back.

I don't know about calling him "explosive". I'd rather say he has "decisive burst". But how much of that comes with the comfort of the blocking system and play design and knowing where he needs to be. He'll be drafted based on his instincts and football IQ. If he times and measures well, that's a plus.

norcalgsr · 12-26-2011, 03:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by energizerbunny

Thats another reason Badger backs always always fall... big lumbering guys who run really,really slow at the combine... PJ Hill, John Clay come to mind.

Montee is really a hybrid between those big guys and Calhoun.

Don't forget Ball was playing at 230 last year and is down to 205.

descendency · 12-26-2011, 05:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbuc

look at the best RB in football this year Matt Forte

LOL. What? No. Just no.

jbooshey · 12-26-2011, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by energizerbunny

Its basically a case of Scheme discrimination, Wisconsin so often is flooded with NFL calibre offensive linemen that it has all most gotten to the point that NFL guys have stopped looking at the numbers these Badger backs are putting up.

Watch some of these holes these guys are running through, its not realistic at all to what they will face in the NFL.

The big question I have about Wisconsin, is why has no top HS running back talent from the South gone up there to run behind these guys. The numbers they would post would be numbing.

This scheme discrimination is the same kinda stuff that happened with the Florida Gator WRs in the Spurrier era.

Why do you need a top HS RB from the south? We usually receive a commitment every year from a top 50 HS RB in the nation...that said James White is from Florida, but even he was the 2nd back on his HS team. Lately Coach Bielema has been able to stay in-state at the RB position which isn't typical at all. But the last three classes have had in-state top RB's (Jeff Lewis #49, Melvin Gordon #38 and Vonte Jackson #27 in their respective classes).

energizerbunny · 12-26-2011, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbooshey

Why do you need a top HS RB from the south?

I'am just saying imagine the production if they got those top talent guys, Instead of getting guys who are mid-level prospects at best.

I can't even fathom what a guy like Lattimore or Dyer would do behind those guys.

Caulibflower · 12-26-2011, 03:27 PM

It's easy enough to find high school combine reports of Montee running 4.4s at 215, and like others have mentioned he came into this year a lot leaner than he was in years past. I don't think his explosion or quickness are subpar, and the good shape he's in this year ought to be seen as a positive. I was watching some film of him last night and thought he looked like an NFL runner. Not a transcendent talent, but a guy who a team will take in the third round and will likely start quite a few games over the course of his career. The first player who came to mind was Tashard Choice, but I think Ball is better. One of those guys who doesn't do anything amazing, but doesn't have any big weaknesses either. He's got some power and probably more speed than people are giving him credit for. Not in the first round mix, though, and really I don't think the second either. That would be a little high for what he ultimately can offer. If he's putting up big stats in the NFL, it'll be because he's on a good team. I don't see him as a back that will elevate his team's play, and those are the ones who should be going in the first.

jbooshey · 12-26-2011, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by energizerbunny

I'am just saying imagine the production if they got those top talent guys, Instead of getting guys who are mid-level prospects at best.

I can't even fathom what a guy like Lattimore or Dyer would do behind those guys.

Gotchya...although I'll point out that John Clay was a McDonald All-American. He let his weight get the best of him though.

Bald_81 · 12-26-2011, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbooshey

Gotchya...although I'll point out that John Clay was a McDonald All-American. He let his weight get the best of him though.

I guess that's why he was a McDonald's All-American then?

princefielder28 · 12-26-2011, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbooshey

Gotchya...although I'll point out that John Clay was a McDonald All-American. He let his weight get the best of him though.

He was a bigger back when he was in school at Racine Park...managing his weight was always an issue

ChiefMojo · 12-27-2011, 10:58 AM

I really like Monte Ball as a RB! I think he would be a good starter or compliment back. I see him as a 2nd/3rd round type prospect. Good speed, good hands, very good with the cut and has good strength. On top of that he is very durable!

bigbuc · 01-02-2012, 04:33 PM

This guy is balling right now

JBCX · 01-02-2012, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbuc

This guy is balling right now

Correction: His offensive line is balling against the undersized Oregon defense.

FUNBUNCHER · 01-02-2012, 06:19 PM

I think Ball has a great chance to be a starter in the NFL, but damn he gets holes at the LOS that TWO running backs could jet through nearly side by side.

He's got decent vision and lateral movement, but there are about 5 RBs I'd want ahead of Montee.

Caulibflower · 01-02-2012, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER

I think Ball has a great chance to be a starter in the NFL, but damn he gets holes at the LOS that TWO running backs could jet through nearly side by side.

He's got decent vision and lateral movement, but there are about 5 RBs I'd want ahead of Montee.

...and there's probably 10 or more in any given draft class that can rush for 500 yards for a team. It's kind of just the nature of the position anymore that there are lots of players that can do what you need them to do.

phlysac · 01-02-2012, 08:05 PM

Cannot WAIT to see what Paul Chryst and Bob Bostad do with Ray Graham and Rushel Shell.

energizerbunny · 01-03-2012, 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phlysac

Cannot WAIT to see what Paul Chryst and Bob Bostad do with Ray Graham and Rushel Shell.

Gonna take him a while to build a Wisconsin type stable of good olinemen.

Its pretty easy to call play's when your oline gets that kind of movement. Anyone who has ever coached or called will tell you that, life is easy when your winning the line.

the_dark_knight · 01-03-2012, 09:19 AM

Personally, all I think is ANOTHER Wisconsin back. He doesn't appear to be the same, and appears to be special, but it's just, how many times can people get burned by Big 10 backs before they learn?

PossibleCabbage · 01-05-2012, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PossibleCabbage

I sincerely don't see him coming out this year, he has an additional year of eligibility and I think he'll use it.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/...-senior-season

I'm just going to toot my own horn here, don't mind me.

FUNBUNCHER · 01-05-2012, 03:41 PM

Hits for a RB are like miles on a car. A college and pro RB only has so many hits he can take before his body starts to break down.
(Another reason guys like Emmitt Smith and Walter Payton are HOFers).

IMO Montee should make the jump now and finish his degree in the offseason.
Professionally this isn't going to improve his stock and if he suffers an injury next year and misses games, his stock could potentially drop.

I think it's bad advice to tell a RB who's draft eligible after having the type of season Ball just had that it's a good idea to return to college.

PossibleCabbage · 01-05-2012, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER

Hits for a RB are like miles on a car. A college and pro RB only has so many hits he can take before his body starts to break down.
(Another reason guys like Emmitt Smith and Walter Payton are HOFers).

IMO Montee should make the jump now and finish his degree in the offseason.
Professionally this isn't going to improve his stock and if he suffers an injury next year and misses games, his stock could potentially drop.

I think it's bad advice to tell a RB who's draft eligible after having the type of season Ball just had that it's a good idea to return to college.

The previous three Wisconsin RBs to declare early found no NFL success. Ball is potentially the best of the bunch, but I would not be that surprised if the Draft Advisory Board was not kind to Ball in light of both the NFL success (or lack thereof) of players at his position, and the quality of his offensive line (which get at least two players drafted this year.)

I'm not saying it's the right decision, but it could be that the DAB strongly suggested he return (in which case they would likely have been in error, for the reasons you suggest.)

EDIT: Supposedly the Draft Advisory Board gave him a third round grade.