2012 Draft Thread - Page 4

djp · 01-07-2012, 04:31 PM

Looks like we've got the North side for the Senior Bowl. You can bet your ass we look hard at Nick Toon for early round 2 for that pick. I like Sean Spence as a WLB too, although he'll be on the South side.

Still much prefer Claiborne at #3 over either Blackmon or Kalil.

Crazy_Chris · 01-07-2012, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djp

Looks like we've got the North side for the Senior Bowl. You can bet your ass we look hard at Nick Toon for early round 2 for that pick. I like Sean Spence as a WLB too, although he'll be on the South side.

Still much prefer Claiborne at #3 over either Blackmon or Kalil.

Nice, we will get a good luck at Kelechi Osemele aswell.

Vikings4ever · 01-07-2012, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djp

Looks like we've got the North side for the Senior Bowl. You can bet your ass we look hard at Nick Toon for early round 2 for that pick. I like Sean Spence as a WLB too, although he'll be on the South side.

Still much prefer Claiborne at #3 over either Blackmon or Kalil.

I don't really consider Blackmon worth the three pick. As far as the Vikes are concerned, Luck/Kalil/Claiborne should be the clear cut top 3.

I'd be fine with Claiborne. The Vikes haven't had a true stud at CB since, um, um... Winfield's been very good, but not a true stud.

But I firmly believe games are won in the trenches. Especially for a team that has an offensive game plan that centers around its running game. I'd prefer Kalil to Claiborne.

princefielder28 · 01-07-2012, 05:08 PM

Claiborne is the popular pick for the Vikings at 3 because he's put himself up there as the #1 corner but given his lack of "elite" physical tools I'm not so sure he'll go that high come April (just look at Patrick Peterson last year and really the track record of corners being taken at the top of the draft)...I think Riley Reiff will be a name that quickly becomes attached to that third pick...he's got everything you look for in a "franchise" LT with wonderful athleticism and technique for such a big guy with those long arms, being very good in both pass protection/run blocking

Nick Toon isn't a 2nd round guy and the Vikings would be making a mistake if they took him that high...Nick was wonderful for the Badgers but I think he's gonna end up alot like a Brian Robiskie and your team is looking for another guy to add with Harvin and Rudolph as options for Ponder; Dwight Jones maybe?

jimmylishis · 01-08-2012, 04:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by princefielder28

Nick Toon isn't a 2nd round guy and the Vikings would be making a mistake if they took him that high...Nick was wonderful for the Badgers but I think he's gonna end up alot like a Brian Robiskie and your team is looking for another guy to add with Harvin and Rudolph as options for Ponder; Dwight Jones maybe?

I definitely don't want Toon at all. He does have good size and body control but he doesn't have pro speed. He can be a decent possession receiver at the next level but we can't use a 2nd on that. We need a deep threat. I would love Dwight Jones and I also would love Criner if he's available in the 3rd.

prock · 01-08-2012, 11:01 AM

I really think Kalil is gonna be there at 3. I can't imagine the Rams stay at 2, I think Washington or Cleveland jumps for Griffen. Kalil at 3 would be ideal, then someone like Hosley, Gilmore, Barron, or maybe Lester? in the second. Criner would be perfect in the third.

marshallb · 01-08-2012, 02:11 PM

Can anyone explain to me what they see in Criner? Especially jimmylishis who was knocking Toon for lacking pro speed and wanting a deep threat. Criner is much slower than Toon, and it wouldn't surprise me if he runs a 4.65 40. When I've seen him, he struggles to get off jams, which shouldn't happen when you're 6-4 215, doesn't run great routes, and just doesn't stand out to me. On top of that, he's rumored to be a nutcase mentally and emotionally. Seems more like a 5th rounder or later to me, rather than hoping he'd be there with the 3rd pick in the 3rd round, especially with the talent and depth at WR in this class.

djp · 01-08-2012, 02:55 PM

I definitely think Toon will rise pending his measurables, he's been reported to be around 4.5 at 6-2. and I don't think Kalil will be there at #3, STL will probably take him.

Crazy_Chris · 01-08-2012, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djp

I definitely think Toon will rise pending his measurables, he's been reported to be around 4.5 at 6-2. and I don't think Kalil will be there at #3, STL will probably take him.

I agree St. Louis will probably take Kalil, but I think the odds for them going Blackmon just went up. That is considering Josh McDaniels left for NE I think it's very likely B. Lloyd follows. But then again that also depends on if they can get a WR in F/A aswell.

djp · 01-08-2012, 03:10 PM

Maybe we can just be bailed out by Miami/Washington paying a fortune to pick up RG3 at #3. Or perhaps Cleveland wants to move up a spot.

jimmylishis · 01-09-2012, 03:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marshallb

Can anyone explain to me what they see in Criner? Especially jimmylishis who was knocking Toon for lacking pro speed and wanting a deep threat. Criner is much slower than Toon, and it wouldn't surprise me if he runs a 4.65 40. When I've seen him, he struggles to get off jams, which shouldn't happen when you're 6-4 215, doesn't run great routes, and just doesn't stand out to me. On top of that, he's rumored to be a nutcase mentally and emotionally. Seems more like a 5th rounder or later to me, rather than hoping he'd be there with the 3rd pick in the 3rd round, especially with the talent and depth at WR in this class.

Have you seen either of them play? I watched every single Arizona game this season and most last season. He doesn't have great acceleration but there aren't many corners that can run with him at his top speed. Stoops used to run a ton of under routes and screens to get Criner the ball in space to utilize his speed. His route running on intermediate routes admittedly needs some work, but he is unreal at beating corners deep with double moves. His body control is also outstanding being able to adjust on deep balls. He made Foles look really good countless times that way. The biggest knock on Criner on the field is drops. He will make some pretty bad drops, but he'll make up for it with a big play. Criner is a first round talent with off the field issues. He is easily worth a 3rd and could be the steal of the draft if he goes in the 5th or later like you say.

Toon can't even separate in the Big 10, which is notorious for its lack of talent on the perimeter. He uses his body very well which is what made him such a great receiver at Wisconsin, but he was never able to separate. He reminds me of Limas Sweed, a great college receiver but too slow to translate to the pros.

Not that it matters, but since you brought it up, I would guess Criner runs about a 4.5 40 and Toon will run about a 4.65.

yo123 · 01-09-2012, 04:06 AM

The last few years I've watched very little college football so take this with a grain of salt, but I want absolutely nothing to do with Nick Toon. Just screams good college receiver without the tools to translate.

Crazy_Chris · 01-09-2012, 03:17 PM

Just saw that Mike Adams got confirmed for the senior bowl. Thats another guy we will be taking a hard look at.

djp · 01-10-2012, 12:49 PM

Toon just hurt his foot so he's off the radar now.

I watched Morris Claiborne a lot last night and came away impressed yet again. Still want him if we can get him, preferably lower in the top 10 if we can swing a trade down.

prock · 01-10-2012, 02:50 PM

Decided I am for trading down if we can still get Mo. Getting Mo in the first, Sanders in the second, and more secondary/WR help with the extra second we would get and a third. Love it.

Crazy_Chris · 01-10-2012, 02:53 PM

I have a hard time seeing Claiborne making it past Tampa at #5, that is if they don't pick up a CB in F/A.

princefielder28 · 01-10-2012, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prock

Decided I am for trading down if we can still get Mo. Getting Mo in the first, Sanders in the second, and more secondary/WR help with the extra second we would get and a third. Love it.

what do you see in Zebrie Sanders that gets you excited??? I see him as a 3rd/4th round developmental guy but this first round (into the 2nd round) talk with him is hard to believe

prock · 01-10-2012, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by princefielder28

what do you see in Zebrie Sanders that gets you excited??? I see him as a 3rd/4th round developmental guy but this first round (into the 2nd round) talk with him is hard to believe

I can't scout offensive linemen worth ****, so that's just what I've been reading. Either way, a LT in round two would be awesome if we don't get Kalil.

princefielder28 · 01-10-2012, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prock

I can't scout offensive linemen worth ****, so that's just what I've been reading. Either way, a LT in round two would be awesome if we don't get Kalil.

I think scouts/draft people are trying for home run with him by looking at his skill set alone and not so much what he's done on the field (the Notre Dame game was a great example of how much of a project he really is)...one guy I think will fly up boards, and thank god he got a Senior Bowl invite, is UAB OT Matt McCants...a kid who is still relatively new to the game of football but once he stepped on UAB's campus he found playing time real quick and has been a wonderful LT for them the last two years...he's done a great job when going up against Vinny Curry and the Senior Bowl practices/game should give a better gauge as to how well he can handle speed rushers

prock · 01-11-2012, 11:48 AM

Think he has a shot to shoot up to round 2? Or would he be more of a third round option?

princefielder28 · 01-11-2012, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prock

Think he has a shot to shoot up to round 2? Or would he be more of a third round option?

I don't think he'll shoot all the way up to the 2nd round (like where Minnesota will be picking) but I could see him as a later 2nd/early 3rd round choice

jimmylishis · 01-11-2012, 03:06 PM

I hate to say it, but I think we have to draft as if AD isn't going to come back. I would be all for drafting a quick receiving back that could compliment Gerhart. It's not our most glaring hole, but I think it's worth a mid-round pick.

wogitalia · 01-11-2012, 08:28 PM

Would love us to trade down and pick up a boat load of picks, we have so many glaring holes that one elite guys isn't changing anything for us.

Looking at our team...

QB - Ponder - If Luck were somehow there, I'd take him but otherwise happy to give him another year, hopefully with some support.

RB - ??? - Peterson injury makes this a question, but absolutely not worth investing more draft picks in, just too easy to get an UDFA who matches 1st round picks these days.

WR - Harvin - Great slot guy but not a consistent threat and is closer to a #3 WR than a #1 in my book.

WR - Nothing - Glaring need. This is probably the position we should target in FA if possible.

WR - Nothing - You need 3 very good receivers these days. I'd like us to target a 3rd rounder with some potential though because despite having nothing here, we are better than at some other positions.

TE - Rudolph - I like him a lot. Bright future and probably the best pick we've made since Peterson...

LT - Nothing - Glaring need. I don't think it's a first round position though, not with out other needs.

LG - Hutch - Need a long term replacement but thats what the 6th round is for.

C - Sullivan - Was solid this year, possibly our best lineman, at this point is absolutely not on the high priority list, I think with the right pieces around him he is good enough.

RG - Herrera - Solid. Again, I'd love a developmental guy behind him or possibly a FA upgrade, but he is far from our biggest weakness.

RT - Loadholt - I'm not a huge fan, but he is solid enough. Replacing him would be a luxury pick, we are not a luxury pick team.

Personally, Luck at QB and maybe a Blackmon or Jeffery are the only guys I'd like us to take in the 1st. That said, I don't like either Blackmon or Jeffery at pick 3, would love to trade into the teens to get them(probably not realistic on Blackmon) and pickup a 2nd first or a high 2nd at the least.

I don't like taking a tackle that high, I wouldn't be opposed to DeCastro in the teens either, amongst a couple of other guards but I'd like other positions far moe.

Defensively...

DE - Allen - Yeah, he goes alright. I like our depth at DE as well. The one position we have absolutely no question marks on.

DT - Williams - He is fine but is slowing down. If we are going to stick with the damn cover 2(as long as the muppet is coach we will...)

DT - Ayodele - I don't mind him. Think we could do with a young guy with some serious burst and potential to work behind these two though rather than the journeyman types.

DE - Robison - I'm fine with him. Big motor and hard working. Again, I really like Ballard and Griffen behind these guys. DE is about the only position that makes me smile.

OLB - Greenway - Stud. Close to, if not, our best player, though would like him to make a few more big plays(FF and INT).

MLB - Henderson - I've never been a huge fan, I love the way he hits and all and his heart but I've just never felt he was very good. Plus I like Xavier Adibi and wish he could get a chance. Solid enough though for now.

OLB - Henderson - Solid player. Nothing special though but had a good first year as starter. Replacing either Henderson would be a luxury pick we can't afford.

CB - Winfield - Is just about done. I'd still love to see him moved to safety if he can come back. Not sure he will be back though and we NEED a long term replacement.

S - Nothing - Honestly, we may as well play 9 on 11(heck 7 if you count the corners). This is by far our biggest need. I'd love a stud safety and I feel like you need a damn good one in our god awful cover 2 base.

S - Nothing - See above. I'd have no problem if we used a 1st and 2nd on safeties(though we will probably just draft a couple more based on Madden stats...

CB - Nothing - Meh. The problem is we insist on playing a stupid cover 2 so we don't value CB or secondary play yet we've been destroyed by it for 5 years now. Honestly, I'd love to draft Claiborne because he is good enough to justify not playing cover 2.

Defense is, imo, our biggest need and the secondary is where that is most evident. Honestly I don't think we have a guy who should be starting in our secondary outside Winfield who looked just about done this year even when he wasn't getting old age injuries.

Personally I'd love to see us draft a whole new secondary and to do it in the first couple of rounds.

My dream draft would probably go something like this...

#1 trade down.
Take a CB/S in the first.(traded down)
Take a CB/S in the 2nd.
Take a CB/S in the 2nd.(acquired in trade)
Take a WR in the 3rd
Take a OG in the 4th.
Take a OT in the 5th
Take a CB/S in the 6th
Take a OT/OG in the 7th.

Ideally I'd like to also sign a top flight CB/S(I still hate we didn't go after Joseph last year). I wouldn't mind targeting a LB or DT if they were available in FA. Also think we need to target a WR in FA.

Heisman · 01-12-2012, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wogitalia

Would love us to trade down and pick up a boat load of picks, we have so many glaring holes that one elite guys isn't changing anything for us.

Looking at our team...

QB - Ponder - If Luck were somehow there, I'd take him but otherwise happy to give him another year, hopefully with some support.

RB - ??? - Peterson injury makes this a question, but absolutely not worth investing more draft picks in, just too easy to get an UDFA who matches 1st round picks these days.

WR - Harvin - Great slot guy but not a consistent threat and is closer to a #3 WR than a #1 in my book.

WR - Nothing - Glaring need. This is probably the position we should target in FA if possible.

WR - Nothing - You need 3 very good receivers these days. I'd like us to target a 3rd rounder with some potential though because despite having nothing here, we are better than at some other positions.

TE - Rudolph - I like him a lot. Bright future and probably the best pick we've made since Peterson...

LT - Nothing - Glaring need. I don't think it's a first round position though, not with out other needs.

LG - Hutch - Need a long term replacement but thats what the 6th round is for.

C - Sullivan - Was solid this year, possibly our best lineman, at this point is absolutely not on the high priority list, I think with the right pieces around him he is good enough.

RG - Herrera - Solid. Again, I'd love a developmental guy behind him or possibly a FA upgrade, but he is far from our biggest weakness.

RT - Loadholt - I'm not a huge fan, but he is solid enough. Replacing him would be a luxury pick, we are not a luxury pick team.

Personally, Luck at QB and maybe a Blackmon or Jeffery are the only guys I'd like us to take in the 1st. That said, I don't like either Blackmon or Jeffery at pick 3, would love to trade into the teens to get them(probably not realistic on Blackmon) and pickup a 2nd first or a high 2nd at the least.

I don't like taking a tackle that high, I wouldn't be opposed to DeCastro in the teens either, amongst a couple of other guards but I'd like other positions far moe.

Defensively...

DE - Allen - Yeah, he goes alright. I like our depth at DE as well. The one position we have absolutely no question marks on.

DT - Williams - He is fine but is slowing down. If we are going to stick with the damn cover 2(as long as the muppet is coach we will...)

DT - Ayodele - I don't mind him. Think we could do with a young guy with some serious burst and potential to work behind these two though rather than the journeyman types.

DE - Robison - I'm fine with him. Big motor and hard working. Again, I really like Ballard and Griffen behind these guys. DE is about the only position that makes me smile.

OLB - Greenway - Stud. Close to, if not, our best player, though would like him to make a few more big plays(FF and INT).

MLB - Henderson - I've never been a huge fan, I love the way he hits and all and his heart but I've just never felt he was very good. Plus I like Xavier Adibi and wish he could get a chance. Solid enough though for now.

OLB - Henderson - Solid player. Nothing special though but had a good first year as starter. Replacing either Henderson would be a luxury pick we can't afford.

CB - Winfield - Is just about done. I'd still love to see him moved to safety if he can come back. Not sure he will be back though and we NEED a long term replacement.

S - Nothing - Honestly, we may as well play 9 on 11(heck 7 if you count the corners). This is by far our biggest need. I'd love a stud safety and I feel like you need a damn good one in our god awful cover 2 base.

S - Nothing - See above. I'd have no problem if we used a 1st and 2nd on safeties(though we will probably just draft a couple more based on Madden stats...

CB - Nothing - Meh. The problem is we insist on playing a stupid cover 2 so we don't value CB or secondary play yet we've been destroyed by it for 5 years now. Honestly, I'd love to draft Claiborne because he is good enough to justify not playing cover 2.

Defense is, imo, our biggest need and the secondary is where that is most evident. Honestly I don't think we have a guy who should be starting in our secondary outside Winfield who looked just about done this year even when he wasn't getting old age injuries.

Personally I'd love to see us draft a whole new secondary and to do it in the first couple of rounds.

My dream draft would probably go something like this...

#1 trade down.
Take a CB/S in the first.(traded down)
Take a CB/S in the 2nd.
Take a CB/S in the 2nd.(acquired in trade)
Take a WR in the 3rd
Take a OG in the 4th.
Take a OT in the 5th
Take a CB/S in the 6th
Take a OT/OG in the 7th.

Ideally I'd like to also sign a top flight CB/S(I still hate we didn't go after Joseph last year). I wouldn't mind targeting a LB or DT if they were available in FA. Also think we need to target a WR in FA.

Yeah, our secondary is HORRIBLE. I feel you. But if we don't give Ponder some weapons and offensive line help, he is going to die. He showed flashes his rookie year, and we need to give him help so he at least has a legitimately fair chance at becoming a player in this league. IMO, this year has gotta be all about surrounding Ponder with weapons. If he fails, we won't doubt it was his fault and we will have a studly crew for the incoming QB next year. CB's will be available in the draft every year, but when you have a chance at a franchise QB giving him help needs to be priority #1

wogitalia · 01-12-2012, 03:43 AM

Quote:

Yeah, our secondary is HORRIBLE. I feel you. But if we don't give Ponder some weapons and offensive line help, he is going to die. He showed flashes his rookie year, and we need to give him help so he at least has a legitimately fair chance at becoming a player in this league. IMO, this year has gotta be all about surrounding Ponder with weapons. If he fails, we won't doubt it was his fault and we will have a studly crew for the incoming QB next year. CB's will be available in the draft every year, but when you have a chance at a franchise QB giving him help needs to be priority #1

I personally think that Claiborne and Kirkpatrick are two of the best corners in forever. Ideally I'd love to have two firsts so we could get Jeffery or Blackmon and take care of both problems.

I did say we need to add a genuine threat at WR through FA as well.

Will disagree though, I don't think it matters what rookies we give him on offense, if our defense is as bad as this year he is still going to get killed because we are going to keep putting him in passing situations. When teams just need to throw slants until we miss the coverage or they reach the endzone to score no amount of weapons or OL help is going to keep him safe.

In my opinion we are a couple of pieces from a very solid to even strong defense that will be able to protect Ponder, similar to Denver, Houston or Cincinnati this year. If we can keep games close instead of giving up 7 on every series then we can use the running game to protect him and also to open up play action.

Note that I certainly want to add some OL help, I just don't see a big need for first round tackles. You get far better value building inside out on the OL and getting the future in the middle plugged up. As well as adding a talented WR in the draft. If we can have Harvin as our 3rd receiver that would be perfect.