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Old 01-12-2012, 07:30 PM    (permalink
49erNation85
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It all depends on how their new team plans to play them and what type of role they are given the first year on the team etc. If you give Griffin the starting job he may end up hurting his learning skill maybe not.It is hard to say really on Luck from being at Stanford and being Pro ready offense but Griffin was as well. Griffin is just a run style QB.If you let Griffin learn the offense for a full year or given a real tough off season both QB s could be in fun season of stats wise . IMO both will not having winning years their first season. Just because each team where they might end up have so holes.If Griffin lands in Seattle some how he may have a huge impact there all they need is a QB too. But again it all depends on how each player handles the learning curve and mental issues of a new offense and crappy teams.
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Old 01-13-2012, 11:16 AM    (permalink
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I don't know why people go on about sitting a QB for a season, it has become so rare that projecting it is a waste of time. The best a rookie QB taken in round 1 can expect, is to sit for 8 games before getting a starting call in game 9 unless you are stuck behind a solid NFL veteran starting QB.

Luck may have to sit if Peyton is healthy and the Colts retain him, otherwise he starts from day 1.

RG111 will very likely start from day 1 also. He is a very smat kid who will pick up the pro game pretty quickly. I see no way he isn't starting right away and being fairly successful out of the gate although no rookie QB produces a lot of wins unless he has a solid team behind him.
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Old 01-13-2012, 12:01 PM    (permalink
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I think what we're seeing right now isn't just that the defense is having to play soft, and the WRs are able to abuse the corners, I think more of what we're seeing is the natural evolution of the sport.

Yes, the rules are in place for offense to win, but doesn't mean that defenses can't shut them down, just ask San Fran. It's about all the best athletes are now coming to football. The popularity of the sport is immense, on an entirely new level than any sport has ever seen. So all the top athletes, all these guys who 20 years ago would have chosen to give being a pitcher or shortstop a shot have swapped to wanting to be the darling QB.

Very few of the best athletes in the US are growing up playing baseball or basketball, I mean heck, look at Lebron, he's a little tall for the NFL, but other than that he's built to play football. Many of the WRs in the NFL if they had dedicated their craft to the NBA would have been able to see success there as well. But Lebron is the exception, not the rule. So, I think we're just seeing that the top players at the position are being scouted and watched and coached up from such a young age that it's just a different era.

Elite athletes don't want to be Corners anymore, or RBs. They want to be the guy chuckin it and gettin all the ladies. Even guys as small as 5'10 have a role model at QB, despite the fact that the 'idea' is the 6'5" guy. No matter the shape or size you can play QB, so given the ruleset, and the fact that some incredible athletes are now dedicating themselves to this passing attack from such a young age, we're seeing the natural progression.

That being said, I think both of these guys will be capable of being big time in the NFL. I think Luck falls short on arm strength and it keeps him out of the 'elite' category at the next level, but he's going to be a guy in the Matt Ryan mold where he's on the doorstep, but I think the difference there is Matt Ryan has the tools to kick the door in in the not so distant future, where as Luck is going to be on the outside looking in, although I expect MASSIVE jersey sales for the guy. I mean his name is Luck, who wouldn't want that jersey, it's perfect. Luck + Indy's Horseshoe logo, I mean you can't make this stuff up.

When it comes to RGIII I think we're seeing Cam Newton 2.0. I think Cam is good, but I think RGIII will surpass him, maybe not in stats, but I think he's going to come in, and win games from the start. I also think that he's going to be a far superior player in a few years. Cam relies on his athletic ability and size, where as RGIII has the mind for the game to go with that. I think that's what's going to set him apart, and I think that's what's going to make him a massive star in the NFL.
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Old 01-13-2012, 12:23 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the_dark_knight View Post
I think what we're seeing right now isn't just that the defense is having to play soft, and the WRs are able to abuse the corners, I think more of what we're seeing is the natural evolution of the sport.

Yes, the rules are in place for offense to win, but doesn't mean that defenses can't shut them down, just ask San Fran. It's about all the best athletes are now coming to football. The popularity of the sport is immense, on an entirely new level than any sport has ever seen. So all the top athletes, all these guys who 20 years ago would have chosen to give being a pitcher or shortstop a shot have swapped to wanting to be the darling QB.

Very few of the best athletes in the US are growing up playing baseball or basketball, I mean heck, look at Lebron, he's a little tall for the NFL, but other than that he's built to play football. Many of the WRs in the NFL if they had dedicated their craft to the NBA would have been able to see success there as well. But Lebron is the exception, not the rule. So, I think we're just seeing that the top players at the position are being scouted and watched and coached up from such a young age that it's just a different era.

Elite athletes don't want to be Corners anymore, or RBs. They want to be the guy chuckin it and gettin all the ladies. Even guys as small as 5'10 have a role model at QB, despite the fact that the 'idea' is the 6'5" guy. No matter the shape or size you can play QB, so given the ruleset, and the fact that some incredible athletes are now dedicating themselves to this passing attack from such a young age, we're seeing the natural progression.

That being said, I think both of these guys will be capable of being big time in the NFL. I think Luck falls short on arm strength and it keeps him out of the 'elite' category at the next level, but he's going to be a guy in the Matt Ryan mold where he's on the doorstep, but I think the difference there is Matt Ryan has the tools to kick the door in in the not so distant future, where as Luck is going to be on the outside looking in, although I expect MASSIVE jersey sales for the guy. I mean his name is Luck, who wouldn't want that jersey, it's perfect. Luck + Indy's Horseshoe logo, I mean you can't make this stuff up.

When it comes to RGIII I think we're seeing Cam Newton 2.0. I think Cam is good, but I think RGIII will surpass him, maybe not in stats, but I think he's going to come in, and win games from the start. I also think that he's going to be a far superior player in a few years. Cam relies on his athletic ability and size, where as RGIII has the mind for the game to go with that. I think that's what's going to set him apart, and I think that's what's going to make him a massive star in the NFL.
While I agree to a lot of what you have to say, I think the new CBA will have a tremendous affect of which athletes choose football. The rookie salary cap is going to drive elite athletes out of the sport and into Baseball and Basketball. With the difference in pay and the injury factor, you could see a real dropoff in athletes who chose football at every level.
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Old 01-13-2012, 01:25 PM    (permalink
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While I agree to a lot of what you have to say, I think the new CBA will have a tremendous affect of which athletes choose football. The rookie salary cap is going to drive elite athletes out of the sport and into Baseball and Basketball. With the difference in pay and the injury factor, you could see a real dropoff in athletes who chose football at every level.
Oh I'm not saying moving forward it's going to remain this way, I just think that's where we are right now. We've already seen a guy like Jeff Samahwerwenowitn4uoihyuiahaja pick baseball because of the fully guaranteed contracts. I think that will continue to happen, the only thing I can't compensate for is the passion.

The only sports that rival the passion of football is soccer which may 1 up it, and then college basketball. So, I'm not going to say that we won't see more, I was just talking about what I see right now, and for the near future.
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Old 01-13-2012, 02:48 PM    (permalink
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I like all of RG3's skills, but the guy appears to be rail thin. Since when did having an NFL body not matter anymore for prospects? People call Griffin "the future prototype" for college football QB's. Really? We want lanky sprinters?

He can put on some weight in the pros, but I think a team that drafts him won't want to mess with his world-class speed. He's thinner than Michael Vick, who gets hurt every other week. Again i love everything Griffin can do on the football field but I wouldn't be surprised if he is drafted and becomes the QB version of Jahvid Best.
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Old 01-13-2012, 04:37 PM    (permalink
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Michael Vick now, or Michael Vick in Atlanta when he was 6' 195?

Cause I think RGIII has the frame to put on a little weight, and it's not all about him running and taking hits, the kid is smart, and athletic, he knows how to avoid big hits (if he can see them coming, no cure for a blindside smackdown from Jared Allen!) so I think his slight frame will not be a big factor. I agree though he is a bit thin and will have to bulk up, I disagree that they're going to worry about him losing speed. Gaining weight and bulk doesn't always cost you speed if you do it the right way.

Give him a couple seasons to pack on 25 pounds and he might lose a half a step or so, but he's still going to be in the upper echelon of speed on the field, and one of the top 3 in terms of QB mobility and speed.

Keep in mind this is coming from a guy who bought into RGIII before last season started, so I've been waiting for him to go pro for 2 years.
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Old 01-13-2012, 04:47 PM    (permalink
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I wouldn't trust RG3 to lead an offense his rookie season. He is no Cam Newton. He needs to be drafted into a team that will have patience to let him develop. Let RG3 sit on the bench for a year. As for Luck he can start right away.
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Old 01-13-2012, 07:05 PM    (permalink
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I think people who expect other QBs to come in and replicate Cam Newton's success this past season are going to be wildly disappointed

I don't even think Cam can replicate this season next year
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Old 01-13-2012, 11:02 PM    (permalink
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Michael Vick now, or Michael Vick in Atlanta when he was 6' 195?

Cause I think RGIII has the frame to put on a little weight, and it's not all about him running and taking hits, the kid is smart, and athletic, he knows how to avoid big hits (if he can see them coming, no cure for a blindside smackdown from Jared Allen!) so I think his slight frame will not be a big factor. I agree though he is a bit thin and will have to bulk up, I disagree that they're going to worry about him losing speed. Gaining weight and bulk doesn't always cost you speed if you do it the right way.

Give him a couple seasons to pack on 25 pounds and he might lose a half a step or so, but he's still going to be in the upper echelon of speed on the field, and one of the top 3 in terms of QB mobility and speed.

Keep in mind this is coming from a guy who bought into RGIII before last season started, so I've been waiting for him to go pro for 2 years.
The Michael Vick now (he's still getting hurt...)

Running QB's just tend to get injured more, and it amazes me how little people care about how thin he is. He's probably worth the risk but damn he looks frail.
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Old 01-14-2012, 01:17 AM    (permalink
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The thing that impressed me most about RG3 in the bowl game was his accuracy, and keeping his eyes downfield.

It seemed like he is more of a scramble to find the open guy downfield, than the scramble and pick up 6 or 7 yards type of guy. I'm not saying he can't run because obviously he can, and did. But I don't see the Vick or Vince Young comparisons where he tucks it and runs. I like how he stays behind the line of scrimmage and keeps looking for the open men downfield when he takes off.

He has the ability to tuck it and get first downs, but I think he will realize that he could get hurt by doing this often, and I don't beleive he will be a scrambling qb that gets hurt often.

Also, to the guy talking about the Luck/indy horseshoe... that's awesome, I never realized that until you said something. Too bad he didn't go to Notre Dame :( lol.
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Old 01-14-2012, 03:32 PM    (permalink
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If Luck or RG3 played on the 2011 Rams, everybody would be calling them busts. The right situation is going to be key for them.
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