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Old 01-26-2012, 08:18 PM    (permalink
Big_Pete
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Default What do you expect to see with the Osi situation.

We all know the contract situation with Osi

He wants his big payday which he isn't likely to get here, and the front office aren't going to let him go without value in return. Last year both the Ravens and Patriots offered late second round picks which wasn't enough.

Osi is just 31 so has a lot of football ahead. He has proven that he is healthy, dynamic and a potential game breaker. If anything his success in the last few games will only increase the issues. I don't think we will pay him to that extension, particularly with the emergence of JPP.

What do people see as Osi's trade value?

Is he worth a late first rounder? The patriots have a definite window with Brady and two first rounders. The Passrusher group in the draft is decidedly weak, particularly in the late first. I am sure Reese would put a first round value on Osi.

With the popularity of passing offenses in the NFL, quality pass rushers are even more important.

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Old 01-27-2012, 07:41 AM    (permalink
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I hope his demands come down a little and we re-sign him.
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Old 01-27-2012, 08:57 AM    (permalink
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Dream scenario? Trade him and our first round pick to the Chiefs for the pick to grab Luke Kuechly.

Realistic scenario if we win the superbowl? We re-sign him for less than he wants.

Realistic scenario if we loss the superbowl? He doesn't come down from his demands and we trade him for a mid second round pick to use on a defensive back or lineman.
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Old 01-27-2012, 09:04 AM    (permalink
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Yeah Rose pretty much nailed all the scenarios.

If Osi doesn't come back though I'd like to draft a DE in the 1st again. Definitely in the 2nd if not 1st.
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Old 01-27-2012, 09:15 AM    (permalink
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Yeah Rose pretty much nailed all the scenarios.

If Osi doesn't come back though I'd like to draft a DE in the 1st again. Definitely in the 2nd if not 1st.
Eh. We've still got Kiwi and with a season under his belt Jacquain Williams may find himself earning a starting spot opposite Boley, especially if we find ourselves in position to get a guy like Burflict who would let us plpay with smaller outside backers. If Kiwi puts his hand in the dirt and more and only stands up on clear running plays I don't think we really need another DE drafted in the first unless the value's just too good. I wouldn't mind using the pick we get for Osi on a kid to develop behind Tuck, JPP, Kiwi and Tollefson if there's a kid with the talent and work ethic available.
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Old 01-27-2012, 09:44 AM    (permalink
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I like to keep our strengths well stocked and we're built around Eli and our DE's. Keep bringing them in. I don't think moving Kiwi back again would be ideal even though I agree Boley and Williams might be the starters next year. Keep the pass rush strong.
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Old 01-27-2012, 05:13 PM    (permalink
Big_Pete
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I hope his demands come down a little and we re-sign him.
That is what I would like to see happen. But Osi will be looking at the deal Charles Johnson got (6yrs, $72m with $32m guaranteed) for the kind of money he is looking for. I can't see the giants offering much more than half of that, although I guess it could be backloaded a little with the cap increasing a lot from 2014 with the new CBA and TV deals

I don't think we will let Osi go for just a mid-late second round pick. I think the bare minimum is the 2nd and 4th. If Reese was willing to take a second, it would have happened last year.

If anything Osi has dramatically increased his value with his play of late, both in the type of contract he expects and what we want in return.

This is a situation that could get ugly.
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Old 01-27-2012, 08:18 PM    (permalink
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If we're coming off a SB win then let it get ugly.
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Old 01-27-2012, 08:21 PM    (permalink
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I like to keep our strengths well stocked and we're built around Eli and our DE's. Keep bringing them in. I don't think moving Kiwi back again would be ideal even though I agree Boley and Williams might be the starters next year. Keep the pass rush strong.
That's why I'm not completely opposed to it, but frankly I think we would be better suited this year spending a 2nd/3rd rounder on a boom or bust guy to groom. If he shows life, we have that depth covered, and if not we can spend a higher pick on it next year.

I just think we'll be able to find a good OT or MIKE in the first this year and if we can get a stud at one of those spots, we'd be much better off.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.

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Old 01-28-2012, 11:50 AM    (permalink
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That's why I'm not completely opposed to it, but frankly I think we would be better suited this year spending a 2nd/3rd rounder on a boom or bust guy to groom. If he shows life, we have that depth covered, and if not we can spend a higher pick on it next year.

I just think we'll be able to find a good OT or MIKE in the first this year and if we can get a stud at one of those spots, we'd be much better off.
I agree with this. My problem with the JPP pick was I'd rather grab a Carlos Dunlap in the 2nd.

Granted I ended up being completely wrong.
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Old 01-28-2012, 01:40 PM    (permalink
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Sorry to burst everyone's bubble, but there aren't many intriguing pass rushers in this draft. As much as I'd like the idea to keep our line elite, there aren't always great players at that position in the draft.

Paige-Moss is the only guy I'd feel comfortable with drafting in the 4-6 round range because he has shown some ability to rush the passer but, as most of us know, he opens his mouth and everything goes downhill. He seems very lazy on the field, slow, and a non-factor in most plays. But he has some plays where he is very JPP-esque.

Even if we trade Osi, I think Reese would just play his board anyway, especially since we still have Kiwi who, IMO, would start for almost every team in the NFL at DE.


2011 Free Agents (signed with other teams):

Barry Cofield-six-year, $36 million (probably our biggest loss and redskins gave him a big deal)
Kevin Boss- four-year, $16 million deal (didn't do that much in oakland, but started 11 games)
Steve Smith- one-year, $2.281 million with incentives if he got 50 catches (he had minimal impact, caught 11 balls for 120ish yards and 1 TD, but he started 1 game and played in 9)
Plaxico Burress- one-year, $3.017 million guaranteed (I am not sure if we get anything for him because we released him after the court date, but he started 13 and played 16, had 600+ yards and 8 TD's)
Sinorice Moss (not worth anything)
Jamon Meredith (probably not worth anything)
Ayanga Okpokowuruk (not worth anything)
Phillip Dillard (not worth anything)
Gerris Wilkinson (not worth anything)


2011 Free Agents (players that we signed from other teams):
David Carr (was released by the 49ers, so i don't think it goes against us)
Steve Weatherford (started every game, did pretty well)
David Baas- five-year, $27.5 million contract. The deal contains $11.5 million guaranteed (started 11 games, did not play the rest and really wasn't that good)
Justin Tryon- (was released by the Colts)
Derrick Martin- (was released by the Packers)

Looking at it all, and taking Plax out because I don't think he will count toward comp pick distribution, I think we will receive a 5th and 6th. Baas mostly cancels out Cofield, but Boss and Smith added with the remaining value of Cofield should net this IMO.

2012 FA (players I think we should resign in bold):
David Carr
Domenik Hixon
Mario Manningham
Devin Thomas
Bear Pascoe
Steve Weatherford

Kareem McKenzie
Tony Ugoh
Stacy Andrews
Rocky Bernard
Jimmy Kennedy
Dave Tollefson
Chase Blackburn
Jonathan Goff
Will Blackmon
Michael Coe
Brian Jackson
Aaron Ross
Terrell Thomas
Justin Tryon
Deon Grant
Derrick Martin


This leaves a pretty big hole at RT, depending on where we put Diehl, Linebacker is still thin, probably need a DT, and maybe another corner.

Players to be released/traded:
Osi Umenyiora
Brandon Jacobs
David Baas

I doubt we trade or release any of these guys right now, but anything can happen. Osi could start somewhere, but if he is content with his deal and playing 20 plays usually then I welcome him with open arms. Jacobs isn't playing to his strongpoints, he is valuable because of his size, but he doesn't make use of it. Baas needs to be restructured or released, he isn't very good.

If traded I think that Osi would be worth a 2nd, Jacobs a 4th/5th, and Baas is probably only worth a 5th.

1. Janoris Jenkins CB North Alabama
2. Vontaze Burfict ILB Arizona
3. David Wilson RB Virginia Tech
4. Marcus Forston DT Miami
5. Matt Reynolds OT B.Y.U.
5*. Donte Paige-Moss DE UNC
6. Tommy Streeter WR Miami
6*. Rishaw Johnson OG Cal U (PA)
7. Dan Persa QB Northwestern
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Old 01-29-2012, 03:56 PM    (permalink
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I think Jacobs gets released. We have quite a bit of cap invested between Jacobs and Bradshaw but the ground game isnt performing. Releasing Jacobs would save $4.9m against the cap. We can either get another RB cheaper in free agency or in the draft.


Thinking about it the money we save from Jacobs would combined with Osi's current $4m cap number would give $8.9m to do an extension for Osi if we want to.

Maybe that is the best option? Our pass rush is the key to this defense.
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Old 01-29-2012, 04:09 PM    (permalink
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I agree with this. My problem with the JPP pick was I'd rather grab a Carlos Dunlap in the 2nd.

Granted I ended up being completely wrong.
I didn't mind the JPP pick as much as if we made a similar pick this year. You aren't going to find a guy like JPP in the second, usually you won't find him outside the top 10 picks, but this year when we've already got a super young stud in JPP to go with the vets Tuck and Kiwi, we don't need as high impact of a youngin. I mean JPP can be a first ballot hall of famer if he keeps growing and you're just not going to find someone that good in the second. Now that we have him though, we don't need another guy like him as badly as we need some other guys.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 01-29-2012, 04:35 PM    (permalink
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I didn't mind the JPP pick as much as if we made a similar pick this year. You aren't going to find a guy like JPP in the second, usually you won't find him outside the top 10 picks, but this year when we've already got a super young stud in JPP to go with the vets Tuck and Kiwi, we don't need as high impact of a youngin. I mean JPP can be a first ballot hall of famer if he keeps growing and you're just not going to find someone that good in the second. Now that we have him though, we don't need another guy like him as badly as we need some other guys.
I'd like to keep Osi if possible and build on the defence we have already. If Osi departs we would need to draft someone to develop for the future.

I like the role we have Kiwanuka in as well as our dline rotation. If we can keep our front together, we could have a dominant defence for some time.
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Old 01-29-2012, 04:51 PM    (permalink
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I didn't mind the JPP pick as much as if we made a similar pick this year. You aren't going to find a guy like JPP in the second, usually you won't find him outside the top 10 picks, but this year when we've already got a super young stud in JPP to go with the vets Tuck and Kiwi, we don't need as high impact of a youngin. I mean JPP can be a first ballot hall of famer if he keeps growing and you're just not going to find someone that good in the second. Now that we have him though, we don't need another guy like him as badly as we need some other guys.
Michael Strahan
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Old 01-29-2012, 04:55 PM    (permalink
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Michael Strahan
My point was we don't need to get a guy like that now that we have JPP whereas when all we had was Osi, Tuck and Kiwi it was worth not hoping you get that exception by finding a guy of that talent later, especially when a great prospect like JPP already fell to our pick.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
Quote:
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBCX View Post
Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 02-20-2012, 02:39 PM    (permalink
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I think Osi will end up getting traded. I just have a feeling that Osi will want more than we are prepared to pay.

I expect we will get something like a mid second and a fifth for him.

I could see these teams being interested

Buffalo, Miami (both moving to a 4-3), Jacksonville, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Seattle and Tennessee along with the usuals like Baltimore and New England.
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Old 02-26-2012, 09:25 AM    (permalink
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Reese seemed open to discussing with Osi a new deal. Before, I figured the answer would be, he is under contract there is nothing to talk about. But it seemed like we were open to talking about something.
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Old 02-26-2012, 10:11 AM    (permalink
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if we can finagle the money and Osi's happy...then bring him back. Our teams have won the super bowl with pass rush leading the charge. He's an asset. I mean, if we get a good 2nd for him...then ok, maybe do that for $ and youth purposes but I'm not opposed to bringing osi back and not making another hole. he's a stud pass rusher and him, tuck, jpp and hopefully Austin rushing at you is damn scary
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