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Old 02-02-2012, 09:54 AM    (permalink
ImBrotherCain
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I love Flowers. The guy was one of my favorite Hokies and it is great to see him doing so well.
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Old 02-02-2012, 09:56 AM    (permalink
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I like Brandon Flowers, but I think he's getting a case of the Nmandi on here. He's being overrated. He's great but I've seen him get beat.

I think Joe Haden is the 2nd best CB in the league.
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Old 02-02-2012, 11:02 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
I like Brandon Flowers, but I think he's getting a case of the Nmandi on here. He's being overrated. He's great but I've seen him get beat.

I think Joe Haden is the 2nd best CB in the league.
I don't know. I mean I know the dude can blanket and is probably in the discussion of top 5 but saying Joe Haden is the #2 CB in the league is a case of the Nnamdi.

Hell, Nnamdi might still be the 2nd best in the league if he wasn't playing in a damn zone scheme the 1st half of the year.

Joe is up there but I just don't feel he has reached that point yet.
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Old 02-02-2012, 11:31 AM    (permalink
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I don't know. I mean I know the dude can blanket and is probably in the discussion of top 5 but saying Joe Haden is the #2 CB in the league is a case of the Nnamdi.

Hell, Nnamdi might still be the 2nd best in the league if he wasn't playing in a damn zone scheme the 1st half of the year.

Joe is up there but I just don't feel he has reached that point yet.
The fact that we have to justify Nmandi with the line: If he wasn't playing zone" is reason enough that he doesn't deserve to be #2 on the list.

Flowers has been beat. He's a good physical CB, but he can be had by speed WRs. I've seen him get beat. He's not some unstoppable force.

Haden is young of course, we only have 2 years of games on him, but he's been an animal. Pound for pound, I think he's been more impressive.

And to be fair, I've seen Nmandi get beat in man this year too. I think he was the product of being a very good CB that nobody really saw (Oakland was never on national tv, and the games were always blacked out) that developed a reputation that was probably a bit excessive.

Not to mention, it's much easier being a shut down CB in the AFC West, which lacks any real stud WRs to begin with, plus only playing one side of the field.
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Old 02-02-2012, 11:49 AM    (permalink
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The fact that we have to justify Nmandi with the line: If he wasn't playing zone" is reason enough that he doesn't deserve to be #2 on the list.

Flowers has been beat. He's a good physical CB, but he can be had by speed WRs. I've seen him get beat. He's not some unstoppable force.

Haden is young of course, we only have 2 years of games on him, but he's been an animal. Pound for pound, I think he's been more impressive.

And to be fair, I've seen Nmandi get beat in man this year too. I think he was the product of being a very good CB that nobody really saw (Oakland was never on national tv, and the games were always blacked out) that developed a reputation that was probably a bit excessive.

Not to mention, it's much easier being a shut down CB in the AFC West, which lacks any real stud WRs to begin with, plus only playing one side of the field.
I don't disagree with you. My point was more that it's a bit premature to call Haden the #2 guy, not so much that Nnamdi is the #2.
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Old 02-02-2012, 12:23 PM    (permalink
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I like Brandon Flowers, but I think he's getting a case of the Nmandi on here. He's being overrated. He's great but I've seen him get beat.

I think Joe Haden is the 2nd best CB in the league.
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Old 02-02-2012, 12:27 PM    (permalink
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This year yes. A resounding yes. But overall body of work, he's top 5 to me. If he follows up this year with another dominant year, then he's #2.
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Old 02-02-2012, 01:15 PM    (permalink
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Not to mention, it's much easier being a shut down CB in the AFC West, which lacks any real stud WRs to begin with, plus only playing one side of the field.
Dwayne Bowe, Vincent Jackson...
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Old 02-02-2012, 01:18 PM    (permalink
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Dwayne Bowe, Vincent Jackson...
They're good, but I don't consider either to be elite.

Put it this way, going from covering Bowe and Jackson (on half the snaps none the less, sometimes even less if the team was smart enough to move their WRs around) to covering Nicks, Cruz, Dez, and Austin for an entire game is a big big difference.

Not to mention, a qb is half the battle. And the only qb worth a damn in the West is Phillip Rivers.
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Old 02-02-2012, 03:02 PM    (permalink
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I like Brandon Flowers, but I think he's getting a case of the Nmandi on here. He's being overrated. He's great but I've seen him get beat.

I think Joe Haden is the 2nd best CB in the league.
You're right that Flowers is pretty inconsistent. Some weeks he looks amazing, some weeks he gets beat. That inconsistency is why he isn't up there with the truly elite yet. The Nmandi comparison isn't really right though, he's playing with another excellent corner in Carr, so it's not like teams have just been ignoring him and picking on other DBs.
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Old 02-02-2012, 07:21 PM    (permalink
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I like Brandon Flowers, but I think he's getting a case of the Nmandi on here. He's being overrated. He's great but I've seen him get beat.

I think Joe Haden is the 2nd best CB in the league.
Not a fan of that argument. Stevie Johnson made Revis look pedestrian on more than one occasion. Dez Bryant was making a fool of Revis until he got hurt in the season opener too. Despite that, Revis was still the best corner in the league this year. All corners get beat. Having seen Flowers get beat a few times shouldn't exclude him from the conversation. All CB's get beat sometimes, even the best ones as long as the ball actually gets thrown their way.

Going based solely on this year alone, I'd take Ike Taylor as the #2 CB in the league 10 times out of 10.
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Old 02-02-2012, 09:34 PM    (permalink
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Going based solely on this year alone, I'd take Ike Taylor as the #2 CB in the league 10 times out of 10.
he was really really unbelievable until demaryius thomas took his lunch money

Ike Taylorís 2011 season by receiver
A.J. Green, Cincinnati 6-87 yards, TD
Demaryius Thomas, Denver 4-204 yards, TD
Wes Welker, New England 4-23 yards
Larry Fitzgerald, Arizona 3-58 yards
Brandon Lloyd, St. Louis 3-39 yards
Anquan Boldin, Baltimore 3-35 yards
Andre Johnson, Houston 3-23 yards
Michael Crabtree, SF 3-23 yards
Jonathan Baldwin, KC 2-26 yards
Nate Washington, Tenn 2-11 yards
Dwayne Bowe, KC 1-25 yards
Mohamed Massaquoi, Clev 1-25 yards
Rob Housler, Arizona 1-20 yards
Steve Breaston, KC 1-18 yards
Jason Hill, Jacksonville 1-18 yards, TD
Reggie Wayne, Indianapolis 1-11 yards
Deion Branch, New England 1-10 yards
Josh Cribbs, Cleveland 1-10 yards
Mike Williams, Seattle 1-9 yards
Damian Williams, Tennessee 1-8 yards
Mike Thomas, Jacksonville 1-3 yards
Torrey Smith, Baltimore 1-2 yards
Pierre Garcon, Indianapolis 1-(-2) yards
46 catches 686 yds. 3 TD's.

only AJ Green and Fitz got over 50 yards and only thomas got over 100
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Old 02-02-2012, 11:04 PM    (permalink
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he was really really unbelievable until demaryius thomas took his lunch money

Ike Taylorís 2011 season by receiver
A.J. Green, Cincinnati 6-87 yards, TD
Demaryius Thomas, Denver 4-204 yards, TD
Wes Welker, New England 4-23 yards
Larry Fitzgerald, Arizona 3-58 yards
Brandon Lloyd, St. Louis 3-39 yards
Anquan Boldin, Baltimore 3-35 yards
Andre Johnson, Houston 3-23 yards
Michael Crabtree, SF 3-23 yards
Jonathan Baldwin, KC 2-26 yards
Nate Washington, Tenn 2-11 yards
Dwayne Bowe, KC 1-25 yards
Mohamed Massaquoi, Clev 1-25 yards
Rob Housler, Arizona 1-20 yards
Steve Breaston, KC 1-18 yards
Jason Hill, Jacksonville 1-18 yards, TD
Reggie Wayne, Indianapolis 1-11 yards
Deion Branch, New England 1-10 yards
Josh Cribbs, Cleveland 1-10 yards
Mike Williams, Seattle 1-9 yards
Damian Williams, Tennessee 1-8 yards
Mike Thomas, Jacksonville 1-3 yards
Torrey Smith, Baltimore 1-2 yards
Pierre Garcon, Indianapolis 1-(-2) yards
46 catches 686 yds. 3 TD's.

only AJ Green and Fitz got over 50 yards and only thomas got over 100
I know Ike played lights out for the majority of the season, but he's so inconsistent in terms of production by season. Maybe top 10. Maybe.
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Old 02-02-2012, 11:11 PM    (permalink
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i dont think so, not since cowher...hes been pretty stable, hes just never catches the ball so even his terrible hands are consistant.
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Old 02-04-2012, 04:10 PM    (permalink
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Brandon Flowers came to my mind at first glance.
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Old 02-04-2012, 04:23 PM    (permalink
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They're good, but I don't consider either to be elite.

Put it this way, going from covering Bowe and Jackson (on half the snaps none the less, sometimes even less if the team was smart enough to move their WRs around) to covering Nicks, Cruz, Dez, and Austin for an entire game is a big big difference.

Not to mention, a qb is half the battle. And the only qb worth a damn in the West is Phillip Rivers.
I dunno man, I probably take V-Jax over Austin and maybe Dez. Certainly harder to cover than either, dude is huge.
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Old 02-05-2012, 12:16 PM    (permalink
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Leon Hall isn't great in man to man coverage but he really seems to excel in zone.
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Old 02-05-2012, 12:42 PM    (permalink
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Lol @ Ike Taylor as the #2 CB in the NFL. This thread, and by extension this forum, are so awesome.
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Old 02-05-2012, 01:13 PM    (permalink
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Lol @ Ike Taylor as the #2 CB in the NFL. This thread, and by extension this forum, are so awesome.
He definitely played like a guy who should be up there this year in the regular season.
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