Mark Barron Injured

[Big Bird]

Originally Posted by A Perfect Score

Haha there is no way he falls to the third. That's absolutely ridiculous. With the dramatic shift in the effectiveness and athleticism of TE's in the NFL, elite safeties are going to be at a premium in the coming years. Teams struggle putting a traditional LB or S on a Jimmy Graham or a Rob Gronkowski, so what's the solution? Draft a highly athletic, physically imposing player to man up on those TE's. Whether he is or he isn't that player, Barron will be drafted highly with the notion in mind that he can man up on the plurality of hyperathletic TE's which just had their way with the middle of the field this year in the NFL.

I'm not sure he goes Top 20, but I have a really hard time seeing him outside of the first round.

I still don't see anything special in his game that warrants a 1st Round selection. Barron is right inbetween two other Alabama safeties, Roman Harper and Rashad Johnson, leaning a bit more towards Harper though.

I just don't get how Barron justifies a 1st Round selection when he is average across the board.

[A Perfect Score]

Originally Posted by Big Bird

I still don't see anything special in his game that warrants a 1st Round selection. Barron is right inbetween two other Alabama safeties, Roman Harper and Rashad Johnson, leaning a bit more towards Harper though.

I just don't get how Barron justifies a 1st Round selection when he is average across the board.

He's 6'2, 215, runs a 4.5 and comes from one of the best football programs in the country. He's fluid enough to play in coverage and stout enough to play in the box, and while he doesn't really excel at either, he's good enough at both for teams to think they can stick him at S and give them versatility and consistency in the back 4. That is why he will go in the first round.

Also, dude is JACKED.

[Big Bird]

Originally Posted by A Perfect Score

He's 6'2, 215, runs a 4.5 and comes from one of the best football programs in the country. He's fluid enough to play in coverage and stout enough to play in the box, and while he doesn't really excel at either, he's good enough at both for teams to think they can stick him at S and give them versatility and consistency in the back 4. That is why he will go in the first round.

Also, dude is JACKED.

Again, not sure how any of that is special. You said he is "good enough." 1st Round isn't for "good enough." If I'm taking a safety in the 1st Round, I better be getting an Ed Reed who is special in coverage, or Roy Williams (coming out of school) who was a big play waiting to happen, or Sean Taylor who was a freak of nature and excelled in every aspect.

2nd Round is where the Mark Barron's, Roman Harper's, and Eric Weddle's (his tackle numbers and contract don't even come close to his actual play) belong. Good enough to start in the league and be solid, but aren't special players.

[A Perfect Score]

Originally Posted by Big Bird

Again, not sure how any of that is special. You said he is "good enough." 1st Round isn't for "good enough." If I'm taking a safety in the 1st Round, I better be getting an Ed Reed who is special in coverage, or Roy Williams (coming out of school) who was a big play waiting to happen, or Sean Taylor who was a freak of nature and excelled in every aspect.

2nd Round is where the Mark Barron's, Roman Harper's, and Eric Weddle's (his tackle numbers and contract don't even come close to his actual play) belong. Good enough to start in the league and be solid, but aren't special players.

I'm not saying I agree with it entirely either, I'm just explaining what I perceive to be the thought process going on in these War Rooms. I've learned to never, ever underestimate the influence of ego in matters such as these. If a coach thinks he can turn a player into a star, he's going to draft him. There will be coaches out there who see what Barron brings to the table and think they can turn him into a star. That's the way I see it, anyways.

[SenorGato]

Originally Posted by A Perfect Score

He's 6'2, 215, runs a 4.5 and comes from one of the best football programs in the country. He's fluid enough to play in coverage and stout enough to play in the box, and while he doesn't really excel at either, he's good enough at both for teams to think they can stick him at S and give them versatility and consistency in the back 4. That is why he will go in the first round.

Also, dude is JACKED.

Also received coaching from an NFL caliber DB coach for 4 years...played in one of the most complex secondaries in college football...was a captain and leader in that defensive secondary...made plays for that secondary...Everything about the guy says first round.

You know what really bugs me when I read alot of fan comments on Barron...the amount of times I hear that he's NOT Reed or Polamalu, therefore not a first rounder. What? You're comparing him to two elite NFL players and future HOFs, and saying he's not a first rounder based on that? What was so special about Troy Polamalu as a prospect? He ran a 4.3 on USC's ridiculous track, but the size wasn't anything special and no one raved or raves about his coverage ability. What made him a guy who goes in the teens? What made him as a prospect so much more special than Barron?

Just an underrated prospect this Barron is...He's a perfect fit for my Jets at 16 too, especially in this division where those Jackasses up north employ two annoyingly talented pass catching TEs. Lol I hear Jet fans always talking about an OLB to cover these TEs...WHAT LB IS RUNNING WITH THOSE GUYS? What is that thought process there?

Another thing that irks me:

How is it that this guy's productive but physically limited teammate, the 6'1 short armed, small handed Upshaw, a slam dunk first round pick as a pass rusher (some say top 10!), yet Barron can't buy fan love? It's truly perplexing to me.

[Complex]

He is a box safety. He should be a 2nd rounder imo if healthy.

[SenorGato]

Originally Posted by Big Bird

Again, not sure how any of that is special. You said he is "good enough." 1st Round isn't for "good enough." If I'm taking a safety in the 1st Round, I better be getting an Ed Reed who is special in coverage, or Roy Williams (coming out of school) who was a big play waiting to happen, or Sean Taylor who was a freak of nature and excelled in every aspect.

2nd Round is where the Mark Barron's, Roman Harper's, and Eric Weddle's (his tackle numbers and contract don't even come close to his actual play) belong. Good enough to start in the league and be solid, but aren't special players.

What was special about Troy Polamalu's game that made him a first round pick? Marketability?

[bitonti]

Originally Posted by SenorGato

What was special about Troy Polamalu's game that made him a first round pick? Marketability?

it's a difference of production.

Troy P made alot of big plays. He blocked 4 punts. He had almost 200 yards of INT return yardage. took 3 INT to the house.

http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/playerDetai...=657&player=43

Reed took 4 INT to the house and had 17 total picks.

http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/playerDet...=415&player=20

Barron has 1 TD in 4 years. These other guys declared early.

http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/playerDetai...rg=8&player=4A

A first round Safety should have a ton of big plays, especially pick 6. the really good ones tend to declare as underclassmen. no offense to Barron he's a very good player, he's just not elite. the role Saban used him in he was more of an impact in the run game and making sacks than he was as a centerfielder.

[b316]

Eric Berry, Earl Thomas, Griffin, Huff

[AntoinCD]

I have said Barron is overrated for a long time. But he is comfortably the best safety in the draft and it's not really a very good draft, therefore he is almost certainly going to be a first rounder.

[cmarq83]

Plus, for many team even an average player at safety is an enormous upgrade. It's easily the worst position in terms of overall talent in the entire league, thus pushing a decent player into the first round conversation.

[SenorGato]

Originally Posted by bitonti

it's a difference of production.

Troy P made alot of big plays. He blocked 4 punts. He had almost 200 yards of INT return yardage. took 3 INT to the house.

http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/playerDetai...=657&player=43

Reed took 4 INT to the house and had 17 total picks.

http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/playerDet...=415&player=20

Barron has 1 TD in 4 years. These other guys declared early.

http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/playerDetai...rg=8&player=4A

A first round Safety should have a ton of big plays, especially pick 6. the really good ones tend to declare as underclassmen. no offense to Barron he's a very good player, he's just not elite. the role Saban used him in he was more of an impact in the run game and making sacks than he was as a centerfielder.

Wait wait wait...Polamalu is a better prospect based on 4 blocked punts, INT yardage, and 3 INTs returned for a TD?

Somehow this overrides the fact that:

- Barron is bigger
- Barron had more INTs in college (as in double the amount: 12 to 6 - Which I'm guessing played into the criteria becoming pick-6s rather than just INTs, which most would consider a pretty big play)
- Barron had more sacks and TFL in college
- Barron had more PDs in college

On top of that, he gets punished for being a senior?

Sorry, completely disagree with the analysis. If he was an elite player he'd be top 10...The fact that he isn't is not a real knock, and there's no way in hell every first rounder is an elite talent. That's not a piece of criteria for a first round pick...Again, no one talked about Polamalu's ability to cover as a pro in an overly positive light (if it got positive at all), yet it worked out just fine for him. He was hardly an elite prospect himself...Funny enough, he went 16.

[Big Bird]

People are using the same "he came from Nick Saban!" argument that they did with Kareem Jackson to justify boosting his stock.

How has that worked out?

In fact, let's look at other defensive backs Nick Saban has coached that have been drafted:
2010-Javier Arenas
2009-Rashad Johnson
2008-Simeon Castille
2005-Corey Webster
2005-Travis Daniels
2003-Norman LeJeune

Am I suppose to be 'wowed' by any names on there?

Is Nick Saban an excellent coach? Yes. But to attempt to boost the stock solely because he played under Saban, when other prospects haven't turned out well, isn't smart.

[SenorGato]

Originally Posted by Big Bird

People are using the same "he came from Nick Saban!" argument that they did with Kareem Jackson to justify boosting his stock.

How has that worked out?

In fact, let's look at other defensive backs Nick Saban has coached that have been drafted:
2010-Javier Arenas
2009-Rashad Johnson
2008-Simeon Castille
2005-Corey Webster
2005-Travis Daniels
2003-Norman LeJeune

Am I suppose to be 'wowed' by any names on there?

Is Nick Saban an excellent coach? Yes. But to attempt to boost the stock solely because he played under Saban, when other prospects haven't turned out well, isn't smart.

There's good players in that bunch...Johnson isn't bad and is seeing more playing time...he'll have a nice little career, even if it's quiet...Webster became a legit #1 corner, even if he never joined the elites...Arenas should be alright himself, as might Jackson...Barron is the most talented of the bunch (along with Kirkpatrick coming out this year).

There's a whoooooooooooole lot to like about Barron going beyond Saban...more than there is to dislike.

[bitonti]

Originally Posted by SenorGato

Wait wait wait...Polamalu is a better prospect

You didn't address Reed. So we are agreeing Ed Reed was a much better prospect than Mark Barron right?

as for Troy you are right they are somewhat similar players in terms of production. Troy has better speed and more touchdowns.

also he was considered the best USC safety since Ronnie Lott that's a very good pedigree and it probably boosted his stock by 10-20 slots. What great Alabama safeties were there? Were any of them as good as Ronnie Lott? It's not fair but that's how the draft works.

and just to be clear Im not talking about what this player is worth to you or me. Its about what he's worth in the draft. Sitting home with a double hernia is going to kill his value. Even if he should be a 1st rounder, he won't be.

[D-Unit]

Dre Kirkpatrick will be a better Safety than Barron and it won't even be close.

[TimD]

Originally Posted by Jetsfan726

I think that the Jets are jumping through hoops excited right now...We can still nab Mark Barron, but take him in the second round. Allowing us to grab a pass rusher in the first...

great 1st post. welcome to the boards

[b316]

Originally Posted by D-Unit

Dre Kirkpatrick will be a better Safety than Barron and it won't even be close.

Him or Claiborne.

[Complex]

Originally Posted by bhaarat316

Him or Claiborne.

Claiborn is not going to be a safety.

[CashmoneyDrew]

Originally Posted by D-Unit

Dre Kirkpatrick will be a better Safety than Barron and it won't even be close.

But will he better than Taylor Mays?!?! :)

[D-Unit]

Originally Posted by CashmoneyDrew

But will he better than Taylor Mays?!?! :)

I don't know who that is, but there's no way Barron is better than Taylor MayzzzZZZZZZZzz!!!! ^_^

[SenorGato]

Originally Posted by bitonti

You didn't address Reed. So we are agreeing Ed Reed was a much better prospect than Mark Barron right?

as for Troy you are right they are somewhat similar players in terms of production. Troy has better speed and more touchdowns.

also he was considered the best USC safety since Ronnie Lott that's a very good pedigree and it probably boosted his stock by 10-20 slots. What great Alabama safeties were there? Were any of them as good as Ronnie Lott? It's not fair but that's how the draft works.

and just to be clear Im not talking about what this player is worth to you or me. Its about what he's worth in the draft. Sitting home with a double hernia is going to kill his value. Even if he should be a 1st rounder, he won't be.

There's no need to address Reed. He's both made more plays in college and went lower than high end safety prospects have gone lately (24). Well, Kenny Phillips went 31, but he had the injury prone tag even then.

Iunno bit...you have excellent points (I agree about the USC point) but I still just don't see this player getting out of round one. The Pats take him at 31 for that garbage secondary...Barron isn't exactly lacking in pedigree anyway. He's a captain and key cog on a 2 time NC winner who's been coached by one of the most respected coaches in the sport at the pro or college level. He's been a big game player too, which is just another plus...

He's got 2 months to put on a little workout for teams who have tons of tape on the guy anyway. They'll mostly want to talk to him and check in on his recovery. It's not exactly a career killing injury we're talking about here...

[San Diego Chicken]

I think Barron could be a target for SD, but I can't get that play against Auburn last year out of my head, the 80 yard TD on the first play of the second half when Barron could not track the ball. Routine play you expect your safety to make 9 times out of 10, he makes that play and the history of college football is completely different.

[Finsfan79]

would love him to miami at the top of the 2nd :)

[SilentJaguar]

Originally Posted by San Diego Chicken

I think Barron could be a target for SD, but I can't get that play against Auburn last year out of my head, the 80 yard TD on the first play of the second half when Barron could not track the ball. Routine play you expect your safety to make 9 times out of 10, he makes that play and the history of college football is completely different.

He had a torn pec that he suffered in the first half of that game which led to that completion because he couldn't use both arms to bat it away/grab the INT.