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Old 02-07-2012, 08:34 PM    (permalink
D-Unit
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Seeing as how effective Romo was towards the end of the season even further disuades me from wanting to spend a 1st rounder on a Guard.

LET'S GO DEFENSE!!! :)
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Old 02-07-2012, 08:47 PM    (permalink
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Nice discussion on GAC with Broaddus about what I've always believed our main problem was, mental toughness.

Just had a discussion with BBD on this too. IMO, I don't think that's our biggest problem. I still think our biggest problem is too many trashy players.

I bash Romo, but I've come to realize that he's not mentally weak. He's just too confident for his own good. He trusts that he'll make a delivery that he can't cash in on. That to me is not being mentally weak. He is tough.

Witten is tough. Dez has swag that oozes out of his pants... so much that he loves to show America his butt crack every time he has the ball in his hands. Miles is damn tough and damn clutch. Murray will be a leader on this team soon with the way he runs. We haven't had someone who could break a tackle like him since the prime of MB3. It's all about not giving up on the play. Hell... even Costa was called a bulldog by Garrett and that was arguably the weakest spot on offense. My point is it's not about desire and mental toughness as much as it simply was just not being good enough at our areas of weakness. Our weaknesses were not average weaknesses. They were BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD.

On defense we really only had 2 guys doing their job right all season. Ware and Lee. Everyone else struggled and most struggled badly. That side of the ball is simply a joke. We need an infusion of talent. We need to do what the Texans did last year. Aggressively pursue elite defensive talent in FA and load up in the draft, early and often.
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Old 02-07-2012, 09:30 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by D-Unit View Post
Just had a discussion with BBD on this too. IMO, I don't think that's our biggest problem. I still think our biggest problem is too many trashy players.

I bash Romo, but I've come to realize that he's not mentally weak. He's just too confident for his own good. He trusts that he'll make a delivery that he can't cash in on. That to me is not being mentally weak. He is tough.

Witten is tough. Dez has swag that oozes out of his pants... so much that he loves to show America his butt crack every time he has the ball in his hands. Miles is damn tough and damn clutch. Murray will be a leader on this team soon with the way he runs. We haven't had someone who could break a tackle like him since the prime of MB3. It's all about not giving up on the play. Hell... even Costa was called a bulldog by Garrett and that was arguably the weakest spot on offense. My point is it's not about desire and mental toughness as much as it simply was just not being good enough at our areas of weakness. Our weaknesses were not average weaknesses. They were BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD.

On defense we really only had 2 guys doing their job right all season. Ware and Lee. Everyone else struggled and most struggled badly. That side of the ball is simply a joke. We need an infusion of talent. We need to do what the Texans did last year. Aggressively pursue elite defensive talent in FA and load up in the draft, early and often.
Oh I definitely agree that we were just poor at certain positions, but I've always felt there's been a huge gap between us and the Giants in the mental toughness department and that was the key reason why I had no faith going into those games at the end of the season. We have two completely different cultures, Coughlin doesn't take any **** in that locker room... hell he benched Bradshaw against us in what was probably their biggest game of the regular season. He's well respected on that team and they've taken on his strong minded approach to the game. Do you really think Garrett would have done the same with Murray if he violated team rules? Or maybe the better question would be, do you think Garrett would bench him without Jerry's blessing? You see, the reason I have a hard time believing Garrett can turn this thing around is because I have a hard time believing our players respect him the same way the Giants respect Tom Coughlin. There's no questions about accountability on that team, if you F up you're answering to the HC. But with us, we have an unqualified yes man that's more worried about pleasing his boss than he is trying to create a tough minded championship environment. I mean it's to the point where Jerry can come down to the sideline in the 1st Qtr and tell Garrett that he needs to rest his QB. Have some self respect for god sakes and man up, set boundaries. You know how bad that looks to the players when their coach basically gets told he's not in charge of in-game personel decisions? And worse yet, takes it like the carrottop ***** he is?

I'm beginning to rant but whatever, I'm passionate about the team. Yes we do need to upgrade the weaknesses on this team because they are very weak areas, but you can forget about Superbowls until they get some backbone... and that starts up top.

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Old 02-07-2012, 09:37 PM    (permalink
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From a Cowboys fan that knows nothing about football, let me drop some knowledge on you. If you apply your theory of a "Hot QB" is the difference between an ok team and a Superbowl Champion the Cowboys would replace the Giants. Romo was far better then Eli over the last eight games of the season:

Romo: 18 td/3 int.... 169/239 71% completion ratio... and with the exception of the Eagles game where he tossed two passes he only had one game with a QB rating less then 95.

Manning 14td/10int.... 183/309 59% completion ratio... and three performances less than 75.

Still I will tip my hat to Eli for playing with great testicular fortitude and leading his team it the championship, but there is a much larger explanation to the G-Men catching fire then his play alone.

The Giants Defense particularly the defense of line started to dominate the second half of the season. Ranking 3rd in sacks with 48 (2 behind #1) and 4th in takeaways. Over the last 8 games the defense racked up 23 sacks and an abundance of pressure that lead to additional takeaways.

On the Flip side of the ball the O-line finally secured stability halfway through the season only allowing 14 sacks over the last 10 games... that's allowing about one and half sacks per game. Couple that with the emergence of Victor Cruz and his Vacuum threat on safeties, creating one on one matchups for Nicks and Manningham on vertical routes = Instant Explosiveness.
I'm probably the biggest Romo fan on this board.......but....stats don't take into account the big or "clutch" plays. The Eli throw to manningham in the SB was a thing of beauty, came exactly at the right time, in exactly where it needed to be. At that point in the game it didn't matter how good or bad Eli played, that one pass made the difference.

In comparison...That ONE pass that Romo missed to Austin vs. The Giants in the first game is the difference in my opinion. Maybe it's luck...hell it probably is, seeing as how the ball bounced the Giants way in so many games. But at the end of the day. Romo was whathe always was, a statistically great QB that faltered in various moments of the season.

Blame the defense, blame the line, blame Austin in the Giants game, Blame Dez in the Jets game, blame Special Teams for giving up a easy FG against arizona, or a punt block, blame whoever you want to...but at the end of the day....The Boys needed a play or two to make the playoffs, and they didn't.
Romo is partially responsible for at least a few of those plays.

With that said...Romo will win a SB before he's done in Dallas.


I hope:(
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Old 02-08-2012, 09:13 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by D-Unit View Post
Just had a discussion with BBD on this too. IMO, I don't think that's our biggest problem. I still think our biggest problem is too many trashy players.

I bash Romo, but I've come to realize that he's not mentally weak. He's just too confident for his own good. He trusts that he'll make a delivery that he can't cash in on. That to me is not being mentally weak. He is tough.

Witten is tough. Dez has swag that oozes out of his pants... so much that he loves to show America his butt crack every time he has the ball in his hands. Miles is damn tough and damn clutch. Murray will be a leader on this team soon with the way he runs. We haven't had someone who could break a tackle like him since the prime of MB3. It's all about not giving up on the play. Hell... even Costa was called a bulldog by Garrett and that was arguably the weakest spot on offense. My point is it's not about desire and mental toughness as much as it simply was just not being good enough at our areas of weakness. Our weaknesses were not average weaknesses. They were BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD.

On defense we really only had 2 guys doing their job right all season. Ware and Lee. Everyone else struggled and most struggled badly. That side of the ball is simply a joke. We need an infusion of talent. We need to do what the Texans did last year. Aggressively pursue elite defensive talent in FA and load up in the draft, early and often.
I agree with you about it's the players on defense mainly. However, I'd say Jenkins played well for us as well. Granted was dinged up a good bit.
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Old 02-08-2012, 11:46 AM    (permalink
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I'm probably the biggest Romo fan on this board.......but....stats don't take into account the big or "clutch" plays. The Eli throw to manningham in the SB was a thing of beauty, came exactly at the right time, in exactly where it needed to be. At that point in the game it didn't matter how good or bad Eli played, that one pass made the difference.

In comparison...That ONE pass that Romo missed to Austin vs. The Giants in the first game is the difference in my opinion. Maybe it's luck...hell it probably is, seeing as how the ball bounced the Giants way in so many games. But at the end of the day. Romo was whathe always was, a statistically great QB that faltered in various moments of the season.

Blame the defense, blame the line, blame Austin in the Giants game, Blame Dez in the Jets game, blame Special Teams for giving up a easy FG against arizona, or a punt block, blame whoever you want to...but at the end of the day....The Boys needed a play or two to make the playoffs, and they didn't.
Romo is partially responsible for at least a few of those plays.

With that said...Romo will win a SB before he's done in Dallas.


I hope:(
The Superbowl toss to Mario was a helluva toss, but the most of the clutch plays Eli made this season were created by his WR rather than Manning "throwing them open" per say. How many plays did Cruz turn routine routes into explosive YAC and TD's and what effect did that have on safeties cheating down on underneath slot routes creating one on one's on the outside? Absolutely no knock on Eli but if you but Romo on that team he is as effective if not more imo.
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Old 02-08-2012, 12:05 PM    (permalink
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Nice discussion on GAC with Broaddus about what I've always believed our main problem was, mental toughness.

Mental toughness is a definite issue. It's not so much as getting outplayed. That sucks when it happens too often, but the bigger problem is people not giving a damn or caving in under pressure.

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On defense we really only had 2 guys doing their job right all season. Ware and Lee. Everyone else struggled and most struggled badly. That side of the ball is simply a joke. We need an infusion of talent. We need to do what the Texans did last year. Aggressively pursue elite defensive talent in FA and load up in the draft, early and often.
I think you're really undercutting Hatcher here. He was incredible all last season, and I don't know how it has gone under the radar. He was everything that you want from a 3-4 DE and more. Jenkins was great, but hurt too often, but beyond that I agree with you on guys not doing their job right. The defense really needs a major face lift.
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Old 02-08-2012, 05:31 PM    (permalink
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Mental toughness is a definite issue. It's not so much as getting outplayed. That sucks when it happens too often, but the bigger problem is people not giving a damn or caving in under pressure.



I think you're really undercutting Hatcher here. He was incredible all last season, and I don't know how it has gone under the radar. He was everything that you want from a 3-4 DE and more. Jenkins was great, but hurt too often, but beyond that I agree with you on guys not doing their job right. The defense really needs a major face lift.
I have people in mind, but who do you guys think are the ones that carve under pressure?


As for Hatcher, sure, he did his job as a rotational DE.
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Old 02-08-2012, 05:32 PM    (permalink
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I agree with you about it's the players on defense mainly. However, I'd say Jenkins played well for us as well. Granted was dinged up a good bit.
Yeah being dinged up and not playing means he didn't do his job imo.
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Old 02-08-2012, 05:42 PM    (permalink
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Oh I definitely agree that we were just poor at certain positions, but I've always felt there's been a huge gap between us and the Giants in the mental toughness department and that was the key reason why I had no faith going into those games at the end of the season. We have two completely different cultures, Coughlin doesn't take any **** in that locker room... hell he benched Bradshaw against us in what was probably their biggest game of the regular season. He's well respected on that team and they've taken on his strong minded approach to the game. Do you really think Garrett would have done the same with Murray if he violated team rules? Or maybe the better question would be, do you think Garrett would bench him without Jerry's blessing? You see, the reason I have a hard time believing Garrett can turn this thing around is because I have a hard time believing our players respect him the same way the Giants respect Tom Coughlin. There's no questions about accountability on that team, if you F up you're answering to the HC. But with us, we have an unqualified yes man that's more worried about pleasing his boss than he is trying to create a tough minded championship environment. I mean it's to the point where Jerry can come down to the sideline in the 1st Qtr and tell Garrett that he needs to rest his QB. Have some self respect for god sakes and man up, set boundaries. You know how bad that looks to the players when their coach basically gets told he's not in charge of in-game personel decisions? And worse yet, takes it like the carrottop ***** he is?

I'm beginning to rant but whatever, I'm passionate about the team. Yes we do need to upgrade the weaknesses on this team because they are very weak areas, but you can forget about Superbowls until they get some backbone... and that starts up top.
I dunno about that. Garrett definitely showed some boldness by cutting a bunch of guys prior to the season starting. He preached accountability and the need to have swag....attitude.

IMO, he's trying to preach discipline and he carries himself in a way that you would respect him as a coach. I definitely don't think he's a "players coach" and I don't think he gives guys free passes. Did we have someone with discipline problems that should've been punished that I missed? If so, who?

Garrett is a guy that I think values character so much that I have a deep feeling that we would never draft a guy like Vontaze Burfict who I would want if I were calling the shots. I think he just wants to avoid poor characters...which means Janoris Jenkins is probably out of the mix too.

My only problem with Garrett is really in his poor playcalling and game clock management. Last year he was a rookie HC and I expected rookie HC mistakes and surely, he enough, he made them. I think the addition of Bill Callahan is going to be huge for this team. HUGE.
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Old 02-09-2012, 05:38 PM    (permalink
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From a Cowboys fan that knows nothing about football, let me drop some knowledge on you. If you apply your theory of a "Hot QB" is the difference between an ok team and a Superbowl Champion the Cowboys would replace the Giants. Romo was far better then Eli over the last eight games of the season:

Romo: 18 td/3 int.... 169/239 71% completion ratio... and with the exception of the Eagles game where he tossed two passes he only had one game with a QB rating less then 95.

Manning 14td/10int.... 183/309 59% completion ratio... and three performances less than 75.

Still I will tip my hat to Eli for playing with great testicular fortitude and leading his team it the championship, but there is a much larger explanation to the G-Men catching fire then his play alone.

The Giants Defense particularly the defense of line started to dominate the second half of the season. Ranking 3rd in sacks with 48 (2 behind #1) and 4th in takeaways. Over the last 8 games the defense racked up 23 sacks and an abundance of pressure that lead to additional takeaways.

On the Flip side of the ball the O-line finally secured stability halfway through the season only allowing 14 sacks over the last 10 games... that's allowing about one and half sacks per game. Couple that with the emergence of Victor Cruz and his Vacuum threat on safeties, creating one on one matchups for Nicks and Manningham on vertical routes = Instant Explosiveness.
Learn to read. Some breaks plus a hot QB is the difference between 6-10 and SB winner..

And I was being sarcastic on the Cowboys fan point, but you missed that too.
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Old 02-09-2012, 05:45 PM    (permalink
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How fans can see this Cowboys team, year after year, lose games in the most improbable ways (while the GMen win) and not think mental toughness is not 80% of the problem ... I just don't get it.

Did Eli Manning miss one opportunity this season to win a game for the GMen on their last drive?

Did the GMen give up any TDs in the last two mintues of any halves or games to give up leads?

.... sorry, but I have way tooooooo many under 2 minutes drives for points given up by this team right before half time and at the end of the 4th Q.

..... sorry but I have seen way tooooooo many turnovers in tight games simply from dumb execution by the QB or players on the field.

...... sorry but I have seen way tooooooooo many penalties to dig us into holes

...... sorry but I have seen way tooooo much almost with this team to think otherwise.

Be great to have far and away the best talent in the NFL but that is impossible with the Salary Cap so you need to make up for this with shrewd personnel decisions, great coaching, great player development and getting tough players. The anti-Cowboys .......... sad but true.
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Old 02-09-2012, 05:49 PM    (permalink
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I have people in mind, but who do you guys think are the ones that carve under pressure?


As for Hatcher, sure, he did his job as a rotational DE.
Romo to start. Kosier. Free. Sensabaugh. Newman. Ratliff. Martellus. Dez. Bradie. Spencer. Heck, even Bailey and the Aussie punter choked hard inkey spots.

Quite a few.
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Old 02-09-2012, 07:27 PM    (permalink
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Romo to start. Kosier. Free. Sensabaugh. Newman. Ratliff. Martellus. Dez. Bradie. Spencer. Heck, even Bailey and the Aussie punter choked hard inkey spots.

Quite a few.
Romo is not mentally weak.... if you define weak as a guy who gives up when the going gets tough. I used to think he was, but I have a better understanding of him now. He in fact is a fighter and an overconfident one at that. His mistakes are not made because he's playing with a given up attitude and refuses to fight. He does not sulk and let that affect his play. His mistakes are made because he thinks he can do things that he can't cash in on. He's overconfident in what he thinks he can do. He's a gunslinger. He will fight, but his weakness is poor decision making. If you define that as being mentally weak then you have a case. But imo, being mentally strong comes from within and Romo's inner strength is strong. He just needs to learn to make better decisions.

Dez is a damn fighter, so I don't even know what you mean by him being mentally weak. He's clutch 99.9% of the time and he's one of the rare guys on the sidelines firing guys up. I want more barkers like him on the team. Guys who thrive when the pressure is on and will step up and be leaders.

The rest of those guys ... thier problem is more about lacking talent and skill for the position. Not mental strength. I keep preaching that it's a talent deficiency. These guys would be a helluva lot more confident and mentally strong if they had the skill and talent to dominate. ...but they just don't. At least with Ratliff and Free you could move them to a different position and they would be fine. Ratliff to DE and Free to RT.
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Old 02-09-2012, 07:29 PM    (permalink
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How fans can see this Cowboys team, year after year, lose games in the most improbable ways (while the GMen win) and not think mental toughness is not 80% of the problem ... I just don't get it.

Did Eli Manning miss one opportunity this season to win a game for the GMen on their last drive?

Did the GMen give up any TDs in the last two mintues of any halves or games to give up leads?

.... sorry, but I have way tooooooo many under 2 minutes drives for points given up by this team right before half time and at the end of the 4th Q.

..... sorry but I have seen way tooooooo many turnovers in tight games simply from dumb execution by the QB or players on the field.

...... sorry but I have seen way tooooooooo many penalties to dig us into holes

...... sorry but I have seen way tooooo much almost with this team to think otherwise.

Be great to have far and away the best talent in the NFL but that is impossible with the Salary Cap so you need to make up for this with shrewd personnel decisions, great coaching, great player development and getting tough players. The anti-Cowboys .......... sad but true.
How fans can think we have enough talent to win, but just don't have the mental toughness to make it work... that is what I don't get.

Our talent, especially on defense... it's pathetic. ...and on offense, the same... interior OL is a joke of talent assembly. You could put the incredible hulk's brain in them and they'd still stink.

STOP OVERRATING OUR PLAYERS PEOPLE.
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Old 02-09-2012, 07:31 PM    (permalink
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Stanford Routt anyone? Just got released.
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Old 02-09-2012, 07:41 PM    (permalink
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Stanford Routt anyone? Just got released.
Might not be as bad as we got, but he does nothing to significantly improve our situation, so I would pass on him rather than add him and falsely think that our problems are solved and stop looking at others.

The worst would be signing him and then going into the draft thinking... we don't need to draft Brandon Boykins or Jayron Hosely in the 3rd because we have Stanford Routt.
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Old 02-09-2012, 07:51 PM    (permalink
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How fans can think we have enough talent to win, but just don't have the mental toughness to make it work... that is what I don't get.

Our talent, especially on defense... it's pathetic. ...and on offense, the same... interior OL is a joke of talent assembly. You could put the incredible hulk's brain in them and they'd still stink.

STOP OVERRATING OUR PLAYERS PEOPLE.
So we were good enough to be leading the Giants 34-22 w/ 5:41 left with not that much talent? What about leading thr Lions 27-3 in the 3rd qtr? Dumb luck? We CONSISTENTLY play like crap in big games, period. We're not the most talented team in the league, but we're in the top half.

Mental toughness is part of the equation, it just is.
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Old 02-09-2012, 08:12 PM    (permalink
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So we were good enough to be leading the Giants 34-22 w/ 5:41 left with not that much talent? What about leading thr Lions 27-3 in the 3rd qtr? Dumb luck? We CONSISTENTLY play like crap in big games, period. We're not the most talented team in the league, but we're in the top half.

Mental toughness is part of the equation, it just is.
Whoa whoa whoa... we are not dearth of talent EVERYWHERE. We are not so incapable of winning or playing well. I hate having to repeat myself clearly after every post. I may driven the point in my recent posts that the Cowboys lack talent... but I've said mutliple times prior to that that where we are weak, we are REAAALLY WEAK. It's a lack of talent at THOSE positions that's the cause of our shortcomings. But outside of that, we are HELLA STRONG! Romo and his arsenal of weapons are near tops in the league. They can compete with ANYONE when healthy. But the interior OL often times became the culprit of blame because they flat out suck talent wise. Additionally, the defense (where I think our talent on that side of the ball is the worst in the NFC East at the very least) just simply doesn't stack up to being adequate enough.

It's not like Tom Caughlin's coaching style would make Newman able to blanket a receiver... it's not like mental toughness is holding Brooking and Bradie run like they did in their prime... it's not like Ratliff lacks the grit to compete, he's just playing out of position... it's not like being more strong minded would make Alan Ball, Frank Walker, Bill Nagy and Phil Costa better players...they just suck. Anthony Spencer would be no different in any other scheme or under any other coach. He's just not that special.

Mental toughness is a cop out excuse. Our guys have the desire to win. Some of them just aren't good enough to get the job done. Period.
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Old 02-09-2012, 08:16 PM    (permalink
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I will say this... mental toughness can be tied to physical toughness and the guys who can't play through playable injury do have issues with being mentally tough.

That's why I won't call Romo mentally weak. Dude played with a broken ribs and that IS the definition of being mentally tough.

Austin and Jenkins are very talented, but not being able to play through injury makes me question their mental toughness. That said, I wouldn't place blame on them or that for the reason why the Cowboys didn't make the playoffs. That factor is just not significant enough. There were much bigger reasons.

The reason why I asked Bob to name the players he thought were the culprits of being mentally weak was because I knew the majority of those names would be our crappy players or the players who played crappy at that position (like Ratliff and Free; move them and they'd be fine).

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Old 02-09-2012, 08:54 PM    (permalink
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Mental toughness is a cop out excuse. Our guys have the desire to win. Some of them just aren't good enough to get the job done. Period.
Someone should take a picture of this, cause i'm about to agree with you. While we do have a stupid team that lacks some mental toughness, i agree it's a cop out excuse. It's amazing how "mentally tough" a team is when they're just flat out more talented than the opposition.
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Old 02-10-2012, 02:10 AM    (permalink
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Learn to read. Some breaks plus a hot QB is the difference between 6-10 and SB winner..

And I was being sarcastic on the Cowboys fan point, but you missed that too.
I can read and that was a major part of your argument... as for luck/breaks.. hustle and drive create alot of these bounces imo not fortune and instead of disagreeing with me or coming up with a counter argument you choose to insult... good job, sorry to piss on your cornflakes.

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Old 02-10-2012, 02:15 AM    (permalink
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I want to see Nagy worked in as TE in jumbo sets... It was a role Wisconsin used him in occasionally and was effective in short yardage situations. The ability to run the football inside the 5 yardline is a major concern of mine heading into the season. The inability to execute any push limits the play calling so much especially since the area the defense has to cover is so constricted at that point of the field. Retaining Fiametta and upgrading at guard should help in this area as well.
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Old 02-10-2012, 09:23 AM    (permalink
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FA is quickly approaching us. I don't know about anyone else, but I'm excited to see how it shakes out for us. That will shape our draft and what we do from there. When does T-New get cut?
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Old 02-10-2012, 11:18 AM    (permalink
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Rumor is the Raiders might release Huff and Wimbley. I'm not a fan of Huff's, but Wimbley would be an interesting one. He's never really had the opportunity to play with another great pass rusher opposite him. He's always had to be the top guy. Ryan is familiar with him too. I'd have some interest here.
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