San Francisco 49ers Discussion

[WhatWouldBillyBajemaDo?]

Originally Posted by dan77733

From wikipedia -

On November 17, 2009, Bowe was suspended for 4 games for an NFL drug violation. He had taken a diuretic, which can be used as a masking agent to disguise anabolic steroid use.

I knew there was more to Bowe than what guys here were saying so I decided to look into it for myself. Regardless of whether or not the above is true in regards to Bowe having drug problems, thats just one of the many examples as to why I will always prefer an asshole over someone who quite honestly, cant be trusted to not do anything stupid off the field.

And I'll say it again - in the locker room, not all but most players who are assholes can be controlled or at least tamed. Off the field, there's no way to know what any player is or isnt doing unless you're going to spy on him 24/7.

Either way, I wouldnt complain if we're able to get Bowe as an UFA. All im saying is that I would prefer two other receivers instead of him if possible.

One incident over a five year career makes you unable to trust him? You say that you would rather have a player that is an asshole on the field compared to one off the field. But Bowe (steroids) and V-Jax (DUIs) will probably land bigger and longer deals than a guy like D-Jax (potential headcase). I would rather deal with guys that have had one or two off field issues compared to a guy who (from my perspective) looked to give up on his team or mentally check out.

Now that's not to say if D-Jax came to the 49ers at a bargain rate I would be opposed to it. but if I had my pickings of WRs I would want Bowe and V-Jax before him.

[WhatWouldBillyBajemaDo?]

Name that I haven't seen come up is Laurent Robinson. Seems like free agency is deep with WRs this year. No excuse not to come away with one on March 13th.

[Borat]

Originally Posted by VAfy-ya

What do you mean by Garcon not being a good fit Borat? And Djax over Bowe?

I think they really need a big-time deep threat or a tall target. Garcon doesn't really fit either of those categories. I think he's good, but he seems more like a Crabtree style and I don't really want two of those. I like DJAX a ton. I think he'd be incredible working with Harbaugh.

Ideally, I'd like to see Crabtree and Gore working the short routes, Davis to work the intermediate windows and deep middle and FA WR working the intermediate and deep zones. Alex just needs to read the play right and they'll be able to exploit a hole somewhere.

Originally Posted by dan77733

-Have no interest in Colston. Mark my words, if he leaves Brees and the dome, he's not going to do anything.

That's insane.

Originally Posted by dan77733

-DeSean is number one on my list ahead of Wallace and only because he's slightly younger and because he wont require any trade compensation if he hits UFA. If DeSean gets franchised, Wallace automatically becomes my number one receiver on my wish list.

I didn't even consider Wallace because I wouldn't trade a decent draft pick to acquire him. He's not even a consideration.

Originally Posted by dan77733

-Vincent just turned 29 and you dont give a huge multi year contract to a player thats a year away from being 30. Add in his off the field troubles and I have no interest in this guy.

He's awesome. That's good enough for me.

Originally Posted by dan77733

-Who's Johnson? Only Johnson I can think of is Bryant Johnson and I dont want him whatsoever. Been there, done that.

Bryant Johnson? LMFAO.

It's Stevie Johnson, WR from Buffalo.

Originally Posted by dan77733

-Burress???? **** NO!!! He sucks, is old and a pain in the ass. No thanks.

HAHA. Fair enough.

[49erNation85]

I just want a wr who can go deep and catch etc. I think if we put crabtree in the slot he would be good there .

[dan77733]

Originally Posted by Borat

I think they really need a big-time deep threat or a tall target. Garcon doesn't really fit either of those categories. I think he's good, but he seems more like a Crabtree style and I don't really want two of those. I like DJAX a ton. I think he'd be incredible working with Harbaugh.

Ideally, I'd like to see Crabtree and Gore working the short routes, Davis to work the intermediate windows and deep middle and FA WR working the intermediate and deep zones. Alex just needs to read the play right and they'll be able to exploit a hole somewhere.

At least we agree about DeSean Jackson. Agree with your ideal part too. The world must be coming to an end. LOL.

Originally Posted by Borat

That's insane.

Just my opinion. Dont think that Colston will be as good outside the dome. Thats all.

Originally Posted by Borat

I didn't even consider Wallace because I wouldn't trade a decent draft pick to acquire him. He's not even a consideration.

Fair enough. I'm pretty sure that DeSean will be franchised. And if he is, Wallace becomes my number one target because he's exactly the speed option that we need. A deep down the field outside threat. Granted, the compensation of a first and a third rounder is steep but if we can acquire a second rounder for Grant, I wouldnt mind trading away the two draft pics especially if we're possibly drafting a WR at 30.

Originally Posted by Borat

He's awesome. That's good enough for me.

Vincent Jackson is damn good but nah, I wouldnt pay him a huge contract at 29 because within two years, I think that he'll decline and when you consider the upside of DeSean and Wallace, I wouldnt take the risk on Vincent.

Originally Posted by Borat

Bryant Johnson? LMFAO.

It's Stevie Johnson, WR from Buffalo.

I forgot about him but at the same time, dont have any interest in him anyway which is probably why I forgot about him.

Originally Posted by Borat

HAHA. Fair enough.

:)

[WhatWouldBillyBajemaDo?]

Marques Colston's numbers on outdoors vs indoors the last 3 years:
2009
Outdoors: 25 Rec, 360 Yards, 14.4 Avg, 4 TDs
Indoors: 45 Rec, 714 Yards, 15.9 Avg, 5 TDs

2010
Outdoors: 27 Rec, 331 Yards, 12.3 Avg, 1 TD
Indoors: 57 Rec, 692 Yards, 12.1, 6 TDs

2011
Outdoors: 26 Rec, 381 Yards, 14.7 Avg, 3 TDs
Indoors: 54 Rec, 762 Yards, 14.1 Avg, 5 TDs

Numbers do drop but he would be instant upgrade in the red zone with his size and leaping ability. I just wouldn't feel comfortable giving a big contract to a player that has had multiple knee injuries. I could see him breaking down in a year or two after the deal.

[VAfy-ya]

Borat, no way is Garcon like Crabtree. He is a legit deep threat. Like I said earlier, he's a a slightly faster version of Victor Cruz. I'm not really considered about a tall target in free angency. We can use the draft to find a good red-zone target. What I need in free agency is a WR with the ability to run every route, strong enough to get off press coverage against the most physical of DBs, and fast enough to get deep against a zone over the top. I think Garcon fits that discription.

[Rabscuttle]

Originally Posted by WhatWouldBillyBajemaDo?

Marques Colston's numbers on outdoors vs indoors the last 3 years:
2009
Outdoors: 25 Rec, 360 Yards, 14.4 Avg, 4 TDs
Indoors: 45 Rec, 714 Yards, 15.9 Avg, 5 TDs

2010
Outdoors: 27 Rec, 331 Yards, 12.3 Avg, 1 TD
Indoors: 57 Rec, 692 Yards, 12.1, 6 TDs

2011
Outdoors: 26 Rec, 381 Yards, 14.7 Avg, 3 TDs
Indoors: 54 Rec, 762 Yards, 14.1 Avg, 5 TDs

Numbers do drop but he would be instant upgrade in the red zone with his size and leaping ability. I just wouldn't feel comfortable giving a big contract to a player that has had multiple knee injuries. I could see him breaking down in a year or two after the deal.

On a per game basis his indoor/outdoor numbers aren't significantly different. Remember he plays close to three quarters of his games indoors so using totals isn't the best application of stats.

[dan77733]

Originally Posted by WhatWouldBillyBajemaDo?

Marques Colston's numbers on outdoors vs indoors the last 3 years:
2009
Outdoors: 25 Rec, 360 Yards, 14.4 Avg, 4 TDs
Indoors: 45 Rec, 714 Yards, 15.9 Avg, 5 TDs

2010
Outdoors: 27 Rec, 331 Yards, 12.3 Avg, 1 TD
Indoors: 57 Rec, 692 Yards, 12.1, 6 TDs

2011
Outdoors: 26 Rec, 381 Yards, 14.7 Avg, 3 TDs
Indoors: 54 Rec, 762 Yards, 14.1 Avg, 5 TDs

Numbers do drop but he would be instant upgrade in the red zone with his size and leaping ability. I just wouldn't feel comfortable giving a big contract to a player that has had multiple knee injuries. I could see him breaking down in a year or two after the deal.

Basically, he's half as good. Put him in an outdoor stadium for 14 games (i'll subtract the STL/ARZ road games) and I dont think that he'll do much better than Crabtree if that.

Everyone talks about our redzone problems and rightfully so but here's something that no one but me has mentioned -

If you have that fast quick deep threat on the outside, that receiver is sure to catch passes and score TD's off of them to where we're not even in the redzone because we already scored. I want that speed guy who spreads out the secondary and forces them to double him on the outside and VD on the inside middle. Doing that opens up gaps for Crabtree, Williams and Walker plus there will be times when the receiver on the outside beats the defender bad and as long as Alex sees him and gets the ball to him, we'll score more TD's outside of the redzone which means that we wont be as concerned when in the redzone to score TD's.

If a guy like Wallace/Jackson is five yards ahead of the defender and Alex gets him the ball, he'll be gone for a TD and thus, redzone problems will be greatly reduced.

[Ness]

Originally Posted by VAfy-ya

Borat, no way is Garcon like Crabtree. He is a legit deep threat. Like I said earlier, he's a a slightly faster version of Victor Cruz. I'm not really considered about a tall target in free angency. We can use the draft to find a good red-zone target. What I need in free agency is a WR with the ability to run every route, strong enough to get off press coverage against the most physical of DBs, and fast enough to get deep against a zone over the top. I think Garcon fits that discription.

You think Garcon is faster than Cruz? I have to strongly disagree with you on that one.

[VAfy-ya]

Originally Posted by Ness

You think Garcon is faster than Cruz? I have to strongly disagree with you on that one.

If you compare 40 times, Garcon is faster. If you compare them on film, its a wash. Cruz isnt a burner. He has good quicks and acceleration. But he's not DJax/Wallace fast....not even close to that.

[Ness]

Originally Posted by VAfy-ya

If you compare 40 times, Garcon is faster. If you compare them on film, its a wash. Cruz isnt a burner. He has good quicks and acceleration. But he's not DJax/Wallace fast....not even close to that.

I never compare 40 times.

And I still disagree. Cruz is a burner. Not like Desean Jackson, but he can beat you deep. And he's definitely faster than Garcon.

[Verloren]

If Baalke goes to VJax, I'd expect to see a lot of escalators in the deal. That makes his latter years more palatable if he begins to decline.

[VAfy-ya]

Originally Posted by Ness

I never compare 40 times.

And I still disagree. Cruz is a burner. Not like Desean Jackson, but he can beat you deep. And he's definitely faster than Garcon.

Defintely faster? No, you think he's faster just like I think he is not. Just like Cruz, Garcon can beat you deep so what's was the purpose in saying that? If that's your opinion, your entitled to it. But unless you have some data to back-up that claim, its purely speculation.

[WhatWouldBillyBajemaDo?]

Originally Posted by Rabscuttle

On a per game basis his indoor/outdoor numbers aren't significantly different. Remember he plays close to three quarters of his games indoors so using totals isn't the best application of stats.

2011: 11 Indoor, 5 Outdoor games
2010: 9 Indoor, 7 Outdoor games
2009: 10 Indoor, 6 Outdoor games

We have seen that the Saints offenses overall numbers (average) all drop playing outdoors. But like I said above I'm more worried about the knee injuries and overpaying for damaged goods compared to the indoor/outdoor spilits.

I will admit it is tough to ignore the numbers he posted in his final 3 games of the season:
@ SF: 9 Rec, 146 Yards, 15.1 Avg, 1 TD
vs Det: 7 Rec, 120 Yards, 17.1 Avg, 0 TD
vs Car: 7 Rec, 145 Yards, 20.7 Avg, 2 TDs

Holy smokes.

[Ness]

Originally Posted by VAfy-ya

Defintely faster? No, you think he's faster just like I think he is not. Just like Cruz, Garcon can beat you deep so what's was the purpose in saying that? If that's your opinion, your entitled to it. But unless you have some data to back-up that claim, its purely speculation.

Yes, I believe he is faster. No need to state the obvious that we are both sharing opinions.

The point wasn't wether both could or couldn't get deep or not. The entire conversation I was having with you stemmed from the thought of which player was faster on the field. I think it's Cruz. You obviously believe otherwise. Well first you said he was slight faster than Cruz, a while later you said it's a wash so I don't know where you truly stand now.

I'm just saying, I think Cruz is faster. It doesn't really matter I guess. I'd be happy with either one of those kind of players on the 49ers.

[Borat]

Check out this little bit of info I did not know about the new salary cap

Basically, the 9ers were $16.87M under the 2011 salary cap. That money is now added to the 9ers cap for 2012, giving them extra room to re-sign the key players (Smith, Goldson, Brooks + maybe even Rogers) and also grab a top WR. This is awesome.

[dan77733]

Originally Posted by Borat

Check out this little bit of info I did not know about the new salary cap

Basically, the 9ers were $16.87M under the 2011 salary cap. That money is now added to the 9ers cap for 2012, giving them extra room to re-sign the key players (Smith, Goldson, Brooks + maybe even Rogers) and also grab a top WR. This is awesome.

And after all the players who are scheduled to become UFA's on March 13th, the 49ers should be over $20m in cap room, possibly over $25m.

They should easily be able to re-sign Smith, Brooks, Goldson and Snyder. They should also be able to acquire a top tier UFA WR. Just depends on who's an actual UFA WR.

[phlysac]

But several other teams have a stockpile of cap-space to outbid. It can be a blessing AND a curse.

[Caddy]

Originally Posted by Borat

Check out this little bit of info I did not know about the new salary cap

Basically, the 9ers were $16.87M under the 2011 salary cap. That money is now added to the 9ers cap for 2012, giving them extra room to re-sign the key players (Smith, Goldson, Brooks + maybe even Rogers) and also grab a top WR. This is awesome.

They only receive the extra cap space if they request it, which I assume would be common although I'm not to sure. If the Bucs exercise this option they will have 60+ million in cap space :O

[Borat]

Yeah, another issue is that excess would disappear in 2013 so it's not like they can go out and sign guys to stupid, excessive contracts because then they'll be screwed the following seasons.

[Caddy]

Originally Posted by Borat

Yeah, another issue is that excess would disappear in 2013 so it's not like they can go out and sign guys to stupid, excessive contracts because then they'll be screwed the following seasons.

Could be interesting to see a few teams use it to front load a contract.

[Borat]

Originally Posted by Caddy

They only receive the extra cap space if they request it, which I assume would be common although I'm not to sure. If the Bucs exercise this option they will have 60+ million in cap space :O

That's a good point as well. The salary floor is 89% of the cap so the teams with huge excess this year will likely pass on requesting it. It would be amazing to see the Bucs try and reach the floor at $162M while also being able to get under the cap in 2013. Seems pretty impossible.

[Caddy]

Originally Posted by Borat

That's a good point as well. The salary floor is 89% of the cap so the teams with huge excess this year will likely pass on requesting it. It would be amazing to see the Bucs try and reach the floor at $162M while also being able to get under the cap in 2013. Seems pretty impossible.

I didn't think the cap floor came into play until 2013/14, but I could be wrong. Either way it makes things a little interesting for GM's who can get creative.

[Borat]

Originally Posted by Caddy

I didn't think the cap floor came into play until 2013/14, but I could be wrong. Either way it makes things a little interesting for GM's who can get creative.

Can the Bucs request a portion of that overage, or is it all or nothing?