Draft Countdown Forums

Go Back   Draft Countdown Forums > Draft Countdown Forums > Team Boards > Dallas Cowboys Team Forum

Dallas Cowboys Team Forum Discuss America's Team - How 'bout dem Cowboys!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-14-2012, 02:04 PM    (permalink
D-Unit
DC Administrator
Legend
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 58,825
Reputation: 2190609
D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by leroyisgod View Post
Let's take a look at John Elway for a minute. Until he had a great running game and a solid defense did he finally win a championship. And at that point, he was doing much less with his arm and legs than he did when he was losing super bowls. So I think that it can be unfair to say that Romo "needs" a good running game and "needs" a good defense to do well.

Also, let's look at Eli this year. He did have a pretty solid and consistent year altogether, but I don't think the Giants win the super bowl this year if Bradshaw doesn't get health and the running game doesn't pick up and if they do not get healthy on the DL and gel on defense. I highly doubt they make the play-offs if those 2 things do not happen.

When Brady was winning his championships, their defenses were ones that teams were afraid to play. I'm not taking anything away from Brady, but I don't know if they win all three of those if the defenses were dominant.

My point is that there aren't a lot of QB's in recent history that can take a team completely on their back and take them to a championship. Peyton Manning's do not grow on trees.

There's simply a lot of expectations for our QB position with our storied franchise. By no means am I defending Romo, but rather saying it's unfair to make statements saying he needs both a good defense and running game to win when other winning QB's in recent history have needed them as well.
I'm not really saying he "needs" them. IMO, he's got it already. The only thing he needs on offense is a Guard and Center. He should be able to get by with an average starting caliber players there. There's no need to spend a 1st rounder on a Guard. There's no need to sign a Franchise player in FA there. It's OVERKILL. We CANNOT keep ignoring the defense and then blame them for not getting the job done. That is the theme of this Cowboys forum.

We should spend all of our picks on defense and spend the majority of our cap on more defensive players. I guarantee that we see the most improvement for this team. Sign an average OG and C and call it day. Those are cheap positions to fill compared to DT, DE, OLB, DB.

Romo did well last year with what he had, isn't that what I'm hearing? So let's address our real needs.
D-Unit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2012, 02:31 PM    (permalink
leroyisgod
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Posts: 3,489
Reputation: 88707
leroyisgod is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.leroyisgod is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.leroyisgod is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.leroyisgod is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.leroyisgod is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.leroyisgod is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.leroyisgod is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.leroyisgod is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.leroyisgod is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.leroyisgod is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.leroyisgod is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Unit View Post
I'm not really saying he "needs" them. IMO, he's got it already. The only thing he needs on offense is a Guard and Center. He should be able to get by with an average starting caliber players there. There's no need to spend a 1st rounder on a Guard. There's no need to sign a Franchise player in FA there. It's OVERKILL. We CANNOT keep ignoring the defense and then blame them for not getting the job done. That is the theme of this Cowboys forum.

We should spend all of our picks on defense and spend the majority of our cap on more defensive players. I guarantee that we see the most improvement for this team. Sign an average OG and C and call it day. Those are cheap positions to fill compared to DT, DE, OLB, DB.

Romo did well last year with what he had, isn't that what I'm hearing? So let's address our real needs.
I'm all for spending a majority of our FA pick ups and draft picks on defense. But I do not want to ignore helping the offense out some. I don't know of many teams that would do that. I do think we need to resign Robinson, look for a future TE and QB along with a G.

I do believe you did make the comments that Romo needed those things. But whatever, not gonna argue over that. I just am not a fan of completely spending the off-season on defense. We do need help there and think we will spend some time on it. But let's just remember that this league has turned more into an offense driven league. We need to make sure we have the weapons on the side of the ball as well.
leroyisgod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2012, 02:52 PM    (permalink
CDCB14
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,067
Reputation: 79506
CDCB14 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CDCB14 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CDCB14 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CDCB14 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CDCB14 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CDCB14 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CDCB14 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CDCB14 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CDCB14 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CDCB14 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CDCB14 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Anyway, and interesting idea was brought up today on the Lunch Break. If we switch to a 4-3, could Victor Butler be the SAM with Lee at MIKE and Carter at WILL?

It was just a hypothetical, but it's an interesting idea.
CDCB14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2012, 03:22 PM    (permalink
leroyisgod
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Posts: 3,489
Reputation: 88707
leroyisgod is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.leroyisgod is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.leroyisgod is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.leroyisgod is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.leroyisgod is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.leroyisgod is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.leroyisgod is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.leroyisgod is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.leroyisgod is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.leroyisgod is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.leroyisgod is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CDCB14 View Post
Anyway, and interesting idea was brought up today on the Lunch Break. If we switch to a 4-3, could Victor Butler be the SAM with Lee at MIKE and Carter at WILL?

It was just a hypothetical, but it's an interesting idea.
So is there really that much chatter coming out of Valley Ranch about a potential switch to a full time 4-3?
leroyisgod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2012, 03:35 PM    (permalink
CDCB14
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,067
Reputation: 79506
CDCB14 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CDCB14 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CDCB14 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CDCB14 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CDCB14 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CDCB14 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CDCB14 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CDCB14 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CDCB14 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CDCB14 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CDCB14 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by leroyisgod View Post
So is there really that much chatter coming out of Valley Ranch about a potential switch to a full time 4-3?
No no no, they are staying with the 3-4. Victor Butler was brought up and they thought of that potential idea because he obviously can't start in a 3-4 because he can't stop the run.

Complete speculation, no substance from the organization behind it.
CDCB14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2012, 03:54 PM    (permalink
D-Unit
DC Administrator
Legend
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 58,825
Reputation: 2190609
D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by leroyisgod View Post
I'm all for spending a majority of our FA pick ups and draft picks on defense. But I do not want to ignore helping the offense out some. I don't know of many teams that would do that. I do think we need to resign Robinson, look for a future TE and QB along with a G.

I do believe you did make the comments that Romo needed those things. But whatever, not gonna argue over that. I just am not a fan of completely spending the off-season on defense. We do need help there and think we will spend some time on it. But let's just remember that this league has turned more into an offense driven league. We need to make sure we have the weapons on the side of the ball as well.
We all know that won't happen too. I'm just saying, the emphasis needs to be placed back on defense.

As for me saying Romo needing all those things... that was a direct response to the people claiming that we need to surround Romo with high expenditures in FA and 1st round pick usage on OFFENSE. I was reguritating what was being said here. Those weren't my feelings. I'm fine with using picks outside of Round 1 on OL. I'm fine with not getting Nicks in FA. But everytime I say that, I get the reasons WHY WE SHOULD.

People saying we need to get Nicks and DeCastro are essentially telling me that Romo NEEDS to have those things in order to do his job. That's adds more fuel to my fire that Romo isn't ALL THAT, if he needs to have those caliber of players in order to do his job.
D-Unit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2012, 04:03 PM    (permalink
CDCB14
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,067
Reputation: 79506
CDCB14 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CDCB14 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CDCB14 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CDCB14 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CDCB14 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CDCB14 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CDCB14 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CDCB14 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CDCB14 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CDCB14 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CDCB14 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Unit View Post
We all know that won't happen too. I'm just saying, the emphasis needs to be placed back on defense.

As for me saying Romo needing all those things... that was a direct response to the people claiming that we need to surround Romo with high expenditures in FA and 1st round pick usage on OFFENSE. I was reguritating what was being said here. Those weren't my feelings. I'm fine with using picks outside of Round 1 on OL. I'm fine with not getting Nicks in FA. But everytime I say that, I get the reasons WHY WE SHOULD.

People saying we need to get Nicks and DeCastro are essentially telling me that Romo NEEDS to have those things in order to do his job. That's adds more fuel to my fire that Romo isn't ALL THAT, if he needs to have those caliber of players in order to do his job.
It's more about the running game than Romo. Obviously it would help pass protection, but 5 rushing TDs all season is pathetic, and one was a QB sneak. Our situational running game is a joke. Look up the amount of times a team has made the playoffs with single digit rushing touchdowns in a season.. I bet it's less than ten in the 90+ year history of the NFL.

If our running game doesn't get more consistent we'll always have the same problems. 5 rushing touchdowns.... that's embarrassing. Some teams run for 3 or 4 in one game week in and week out. 5 in 16 games? Pathetic.
CDCB14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2012, 04:58 PM    (permalink
D-Unit
DC Administrator
Legend
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 58,825
Reputation: 2190609
D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CDCB14 View Post
It's more about the running game than Romo. Obviously it would help pass protection, but 5 rushing TDs all season is pathetic, and one was a QB sneak. Our situational running game is a joke. Look up the amount of times a team has made the playoffs with single digit rushing touchdowns in a season.. I bet it's less than ten in the 90+ year history of the NFL.

If our running game doesn't get more consistent we'll always have the same problems. 5 rushing touchdowns.... that's embarrassing. Some teams run for 3 or 4 in one game week in and week out. 5 in 16 games? Pathetic.
Yeah that's pretty pathetic, but I also blame a lot of that on Garrett's playcalling and lack of trust in the run. Plus, Felix Jones was bad this year.

Let's just put it this way... as bad as those rushing TD numbers are concerning, they are nothing compared to the concern we have on defense.
D-Unit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2012, 05:06 PM    (permalink
Macarthur
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ft. Worth, TX
Posts: 2,479
Reputation: 98039
Macarthur is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Macarthur is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Macarthur is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Macarthur is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Macarthur is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Macarthur is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Macarthur is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Macarthur is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Macarthur is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Macarthur is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Macarthur is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Unit View Post
Yeah that's pretty pathetic, but I also blame a lot of that on Garrett's playcalling and lack of trust in the run. Plus, Felix Jones was bad this year.
What's he gonna call when he's got Costa getting driven back into Romo's lap and guys like Hollan and Koiser that can't move?

The issue wasn't play calling. The issue was talent in the interior OL.

Quote:
Let's just put it this way... as bad as those rushing TD numbers are concerning, they are nothing compared to the concern we have on defense.
I agree that the defense is MORE important, but that interior OL has to be addressed, at least the C position.
__________________
In war, you win or lose, live or die - and the difference is just an eyelash.


-Douglas MacArthur
Macarthur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2012, 05:15 PM    (permalink
D-Unit
DC Administrator
Legend
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 58,825
Reputation: 2190609
D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Macarthur View Post
What's he gonna call when he's got Costa getting driven back into Romo's lap and guys like Hollan and Koiser that can't move?

The issue wasn't play calling. The issue was talent in the interior OL.



I agree that the defense is MORE important, but that interior OL has to be addressed, at least the C position.
That was part of it, but there was also an issue with the playcalling. I don't mean simply calling "run" or "pass". I'm talking about the design of our run plays. They were piss poor and very predictable to defend. This is one area that I hope Callahan will improve on this ball club. Bringing in more innovative run schemes. You know who's run schemes I love? Bob Stoops at OU. Man the stuff they run is bad ass compared to what Garrett showed.

...and like I said... addressing the OL needs to be done... but it doesn't have to be with our 1st rounder and it doesn't have to be with franchise caliber players. The more we use there, the less we have to address our main concerns on defense.
D-Unit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2012, 05:26 PM    (permalink
Macarthur
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ft. Worth, TX
Posts: 2,479
Reputation: 98039
Macarthur is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Macarthur is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Macarthur is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Macarthur is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Macarthur is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Macarthur is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Macarthur is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Macarthur is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Macarthur is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Macarthur is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Macarthur is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Unit View Post
That was part of it, but there was also an issue with the playcalling. I don't mean simply calling "run" or "pass". I'm talking about the design of our run plays. They were piss poor and very predictable to defend. This is one area that I hope Callahan will improve on this ball club. Bringing in more innovative run schemes. You know who's run schemes I love? Bob Stoops at OU. Man the stuff they run is bad ass compared to what Garrett showed.

...and like I said... addressing the OL needs to be done... but it doesn't have to be with our 1st rounder and it doesn't have to be with franchise caliber players. The more we use there, the less we have to address our main concerns on defense.
Well, it's hard for us to have that debate because I don't care how well things are designed, if you have a kid that simply can't play (Costa), the design won't matter for sqat. It's kind of a chicken and egg.

I do agree that Callahan should be a great help to Jason.
__________________
In war, you win or lose, live or die - and the difference is just an eyelash.


-Douglas MacArthur
Macarthur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2012, 05:31 PM    (permalink
D-Unit
DC Administrator
Legend
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 58,825
Reputation: 2190609
D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Macarthur View Post
Well, it's hard for us to have that debate because I don't care how well things are designed, if you have a kid that simply can't play (Costa), the design won't matter for sqat. It's kind of a chicken and egg.

I do agree that Callahan should be a great help to Jason.
Not really looking to have a debate there. NO question our interior OL is weak and needs improvement. The degree on that improvement is where we may have some disagreement.

Knowing how far along Arkin is would help. Was 1 redshirt year long enough for him to catch on and beef up? Can he start next season? I liked what I saw of him in the preseason. If Garrett thought Nagy could start, I hope Arkin is close.
D-Unit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2012, 05:43 PM    (permalink
Macarthur
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ft. Worth, TX
Posts: 2,479
Reputation: 98039
Macarthur is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Macarthur is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Macarthur is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Macarthur is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Macarthur is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Macarthur is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Macarthur is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Macarthur is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Macarthur is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Macarthur is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Macarthur is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Unit View Post
Knowing how far along Arkin is would help. Was 1 redshirt year long enough for him to catch on and beef up? Can he start next season? I liked what I saw of him in the preseason. If Garrett thought Nagy could start, I hope Arkin is close.
True. I would like to think that between Arkin, Nagy & Kowalski one of those guys would be ready to hold down one of those guard spots.
__________________
In war, you win or lose, live or die - and the difference is just an eyelash.


-Douglas MacArthur
Macarthur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2012, 05:56 PM    (permalink
Paul
All-NFLDC
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Dallas
Posts: 11,217
Reputation: 1225739
Paul is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Paul is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Paul is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Paul is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Paul is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Paul is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Paul is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Paul is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Paul is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Paul is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Paul is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

All this talk about Spencer staying for nearly 9 mill makes me want to choke a *****.
Paul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2012, 05:59 PM    (permalink
D-Unit
DC Administrator
Legend
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 58,825
Reputation: 2190609
D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul View Post
All this talk about Spencer staying for nearly 9 mill makes me want to choke a *****.
AAAAAAAAMEN! That would be both typical for this franchise and a massive mistake. For all the talk of clearing up $20M in cap space, it seems pretty idiotic to me that this team would use almost half of it on Spencer. BARF.
D-Unit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2012, 07:29 PM    (permalink
CDCB14
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,067
Reputation: 79506
CDCB14 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CDCB14 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CDCB14 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CDCB14 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CDCB14 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CDCB14 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CDCB14 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CDCB14 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CDCB14 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CDCB14 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CDCB14 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Unit View Post
Not really looking to have a debate there. NO question our interior OL is weak and needs improvement. The degree on that improvement is where we may have some disagreement.

Knowing how far along Arkin is would help. Was 1 redshirt year long enough for him to catch on and beef up? Can he start next season? I liked what I saw of him in the preseason. If Garrett thought Nagy could start, I hope Arkin is close.
I don't get what you mean though. You are saying average improvement is all we need on the interior OL... that is exactly what we did with Holland, Dockery, etc. and it obviously didn't work.

It's time to bite the bullet and get one elite interior OL. Whether it's Nicks or a top 2 round pick in the draft, we need one. My flavor of the month right now is a trade down for Konz while picking up an extra third. It seems like a win on all fronts. Hopefully arkin is the future at one guard spot, but center and the other guard need to be significantly upgraded. The Dockery's and Holland's just aren't going to cut it.

It's the same situation as ILB with brooking, akin ayodele, etc. We have too many average players. That's why we are always in close games, and we win some and lose some, and end of finishing 8-8. We need more studs, period. Whether it's at CB, NT, interior OL, or DE i don't care.

As for franchising spencer, I think it would be stupid, but we may have no other choice. They really must not like any of the 3-4 OLB prospects at 14.
CDCB14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2012, 08:00 PM    (permalink
FreshBoy!
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,237
Reputation: 133417
FreshBoy! is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FreshBoy! is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FreshBoy! is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FreshBoy! is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FreshBoy! is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FreshBoy! is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FreshBoy! is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FreshBoy! is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FreshBoy! is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FreshBoy! is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FreshBoy! is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

My feeling on Spencer is this.......

Who do you get to replace him? I want real answers here..not "Gwarr gwarr Spencer sucks, ANYONE would do better". That's simply not true...Victor Butler is a liability against the run, a huge liability.

There's nobody in the draft that's going to contribute more than what Spencer would...He has his faults at rushing the passer but he's great at stopping the run and shedding blocks.

Who else is out there as a FA?
Besides Mario Williams of course...but then that would be breaking the bank.


So again....the thought of keeping "Almost Anthony" is a bit discouraging...but Bob Sturm puts it best in this article:
http://sturminator.blogspot.com/2012...l-manager.html

If you're going to replace a guy because he's a 6 or 7 on a 10 point scale, then you better be replacing him with a player that's a 8 to 10....because "Anybody besides Spencer" is more than likely going to be a 4 or 5.

Quote:
I am certainly not sure that Twitter and 140 characters is the best way to discuss the play of a football player in proper detail, but I hope my point is clear from those tweets and this previous essay on Spencer; You better understand what he is and that what he is will not be replaced "with a warm body".

He is the 2nd OLB in a 3-4 defense and therefore should be compared to those in that same category. To compare him to other #1's like Brian Orakpo, Tamba Hali, or Cameron Wake is not practical. That is DeMarcus Ware's job. He matches up against the other guy, and let's see how that works. Let's look at the "2nd Best" in terms of sack totals that outperformed Spencer of the 3-4s in the NFL in 2011:


Player, Team Sacks Tackles
Kerrigan, Wash 9 40
Harrison, Pitt 9 38
Taylor, Mia 7 11
Spencer, Dal 6 53



That is your entire list of OLBs in 3-4 defenses (11 teams in NFL ran true 3-4s in 2011) that had more productive sack seasons than Anthony Spencer did in 2011. So, if you can get Ryan Kerrigan in here to replace Spencer, I would do that (of course, he is under contract in Washington for 4 more seasons). Jason Taylor is strictly a pass rusher and James Harrison is usually Pittsburgh's #1 but had a banged up season (LaMarr Woodley had 10 sacks). However, the 3-4s in San Francisco, Kansas City, Houston, San Diego, Green Bay, Arizona, and New York all had 2nd LBs that were either at Spencer's 6 or well below.

Obviously, this is not an apples to apples comparison. Some have dominant defensive lines (Arizona, San Francisco) and some have ensemble casts that use a strength in numbers attack.

But, the idea that a warm body can outperform every other 2nd LB in the scheme with the exception of those 3 teams seems worth noting. Next, look at the same category in 2010:


Player, Team Sacks Tackles
Woodley, Pitt 9 30
Spencer, Dal 5 53
We need a dominant force opposite Ware.....That's a fact....Spencer isn't a dominate force...Also a fact. What he is though...is an above average LB'er in the NFL. Another fact.

Who do you guys get to replace him?

Last edited by FreshBoy! : 02-14-2012 at 08:15 PM.
FreshBoy! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2012, 08:34 PM    (permalink
D-Unit
DC Administrator
Legend
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 58,825
Reputation: 2190609
D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FreshBoy! View Post
My feeling on Spencer is this.......

Who do you get to replace him? I want real answers here..not "Gwarr gwarr Spencer sucks, ANYONE would do better". That's simply not true...Victor Butler is a liability against the run, a huge liability.

There's nobody in the draft that's going to contribute more than what Spencer would...He has his faults at rushing the passer but he's great at stopping the run and shedding blocks.

Who else is out there as a FA?
Besides Mario Williams of course...but then that would be breaking the bank.


So again....the thought of keeping "Almost Anthony" is a bit discouraging...but Bob Sturm puts it best in this article:
http://sturminator.blogspot.com/2012...l-manager.html

If you're going to replace a guy because he's a 6 or 7 on a 10 point scale, then you better be replacing him with a player that's a 8 to 10....because "Anybody besides Spencer" is more than likely going to be a 4 or 5.



We need a dominant force opposite Ware.....That's a fact....Spencer isn't a dominate force...Also a fact. What he is though...is an above average LB'er in the NFL. Another fact.

Who do you guys get to replace him?
I don't think above average earns you the Franchise Tag... an average of the Top 5 at your position.

I do think a better DL will help him though... if you wanna take something positive away from it all.

Why do you think it's so certain that nobody in the draft is better than him at that position? I certainly don't think that's the case. Not for dead sure that is...
D-Unit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2012, 08:38 PM    (permalink
D-Unit
DC Administrator
Legend
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 58,825
Reputation: 2190609
D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CDCB14 View Post
I don't get what you mean though. You are saying average improvement is all we need on the interior OL... that is exactly what we did with Holland, Dockery, etc. and it obviously didn't work.

It's time to bite the bullet and get one elite interior OL. Whether it's Nicks or a top 2 round pick in the draft, we need one. My flavor of the month right now is a trade down for Konz while picking up an extra third. It seems like a win on all fronts. Hopefully arkin is the future at one guard spot, but center and the other guard need to be significantly upgraded. The Dockery's and Holland's just aren't going to cut it.

It's the same situation as ILB with brooking, akin ayodele, etc. We have too many average players. That's why we are always in close games, and we win some and lose some, and end of finishing 8-8. We need more studs, period. Whether it's at CB, NT, interior OL, or DE i don't care.

As for franchising spencer, I think it would be stupid, but we may have no other choice. They really must not like any of the 3-4 OLB prospects at 14.
Holland and Dockery were left over scraps. They are not average. Brian Waters would've been great. He's exactly the type I'm talking about.

...and truthfully, before they were hurt... Romo and the offense were doing just fine there with Holland and Dockery. It was Nagy and Costa that were horrific.
D-Unit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2012, 08:47 PM    (permalink
FreshBoy!
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,237
Reputation: 133417
FreshBoy! is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FreshBoy! is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FreshBoy! is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FreshBoy! is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FreshBoy! is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FreshBoy! is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FreshBoy! is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FreshBoy! is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FreshBoy! is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FreshBoy! is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FreshBoy! is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Unit View Post
I don't think above average earns you the Franchise Tag... an average of the Top 5 at your position.

I do think a better DL will help him though... if you wanna take something positive away from it all.

Why do you think it's so certain that nobody in the draft is better than him at that position? I certainly don't think that's the case. Not for dead sure that is...
Who? Name them....Obviously the draft is a crap shoot...and players like JPP are the right fit away from being dominant. I just don't see ANYONE that I'd take in the first or 2nd round to replace Spencer.

I'm not even arguing FOR "Almost Anthony"...I want him gone...If they're going to pay top dollar for a Free Agent, then it better be Mario and a transition to a 4-3.

But if you're staying in a 3-4....there's more pressing issues that can be addressed via the draft. I'd much rather take Dre Kirkpatrick, Decastro, or take a flyer on J. Jenkins in the first...

And then address the defensive line in the 2nd.

And then the defensive line in the 3rd. Lol....

Franchising Spencer obviously would be a sucker punch to the gut, but it's almost buying time for a better LB'er class and stocking the shelf at positions with greater need.
FreshBoy! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2012, 08:50 PM    (permalink
LonghornsLegend
Legend
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Arlington, TX
Posts: 20,758
Reputation: 1970779
LonghornsLegend is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.LonghornsLegend is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.LonghornsLegend is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.LonghornsLegend is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.LonghornsLegend is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.LonghornsLegend is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.LonghornsLegend is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.LonghornsLegend is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.LonghornsLegend is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.LonghornsLegend is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.LonghornsLegend is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FreshBoy! View Post
My feeling on Spencer is this.......

Who do you get to replace him? I want real answers here..not "Gwarr gwarr Spencer sucks, ANYONE would do better". That's simply not true...Victor Butler is a liability against the run, a huge liability.

There's nobody in the draft that's going to contribute more than what Spencer would...He has his faults at rushing the passer but he's great at stopping the run and shedding blocks.

Who else is out there as a FA?
Besides Mario Williams of course...but then that would be breaking the bank.


So again....the thought of keeping "Almost Anthony" is a bit discouraging...but Bob Sturm puts it best in this article:
http://sturminator.blogspot.com/2012...l-manager.html

If you're going to replace a guy because he's a 6 or 7 on a 10 point scale, then you better be replacing him with a player that's a 8 to 10....because "Anybody besides Spencer" is more than likely going to be a 4 or 5.



We need a dominant force opposite Ware.....That's a fact....Spencer isn't a dominate force...Also a fact. What he is though...is an above average LB'er in the NFL. Another fact.

Who do you guys get to replace him?

That's a very good post, both really. Still, like D said I'm not sure that nobody at 14 will be better. That article points out how he would take Kerrigan over Spencer now, yet one year ago he was a rookie drafted in roughly the same spot we are in now. Had we taken one in the 1st last year we'd have upgraded the position, so why is it so impossible now?


Just because they are unknown talents doesn't mean you can't improve, and when you've been an average player like he is you draft to replace him. I think he's more like a 5-6 player on a scale of 1-10, you don't need an 8 to replace that. It'd be nice, but you don't stick with average because your afraid you won't get someone in return that's at least average. That's gonna happen no matter what.


I find it hard to believe that with the 14th pick in a draft that's pretty top heavy in O lineman, that all the good pass rushers are gone, or nobody left who can be a stud OLB. That's a very important position in a 3-4 and if we really like someone there I'd be happy with the pick.


We spent a 1st rounder on it before, even when we had Greg Ellis, so I doubt we are over looking it this year.
__________________





Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Wright View Post
I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.
LonghornsLegend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2012, 09:01 PM    (permalink
FreshBoy!
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,237
Reputation: 133417
FreshBoy! is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FreshBoy! is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FreshBoy! is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FreshBoy! is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FreshBoy! is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FreshBoy! is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FreshBoy! is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FreshBoy! is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FreshBoy! is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FreshBoy! is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FreshBoy! is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I guess my perspective has more to do with what's going to be the greatest impact on the team?

Decastro/Kirkpatrick/Jenkins vs. Spencer's replacement.(Ingram or Upshaw maybe are probably the closest to a blue chip right?)

I'm moreso asking...throw out names, who else do you guys see stepping in day one for another hole that needs filling? Again..I'm not advocating signing him longterm...but IMO, there are positions of need greater than OLB on the team. That's what I'm weighing against...not necessarily whether or not we can find an upgrade for Spencer, because I"m sure we can, I just feel he's not bad enough to where it's necessary to create another hole.
FreshBoy! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2012, 09:17 PM    (permalink
CDCB14
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,067
Reputation: 79506
CDCB14 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CDCB14 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CDCB14 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CDCB14 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CDCB14 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CDCB14 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CDCB14 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CDCB14 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CDCB14 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CDCB14 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CDCB14 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FreshBoy! View Post
I'm not even arguing FOR "Almost Anthony"...I want him gone...If they're going to pay top dollar for a Free Agent, then it better be Mario and a transition to a 4-3.
I completely agree with this. If your going to franchise Anthony Spencer for nearly 9 million, why not just spend another 2-3 and get mario williams and switch to a 4-3. If you really look at how it would change our defense, we would probably be a lot better:

LE- DeMarcus
NT- Lissemore
UT- Ratliff
RE- Mario Williams

Add Hatcher, Brent, Spears, etc. rotating in and that would be a pretty dominant DL.

Now to the linebackers:

WILL- Carter
MIKE- Lee
SAM- Butler/free agent/draft pick

Obviously we would have no depth, so our draft would need to probably consist of 2 linebackers, 1 in the top 3 rounds and another later on accompanied by an average veteran free agent.

Rob ran the 4-3 in Oakland, and with that front 7 I doubt anyone could screw it up. The more I look at it, the more I would want to do it. Think about how dominant that front 7 would be if we landed mario williams... Land a decent free agent linebacker and draft someone like Audie Cole in the 3rd and we'd be set.

EDIT: Just tweeted at Broaddus this idea (signing williams instead and switching to a 4-3) and he replied with the following:

Quote:
I don't know how to say this any differently but They are not signing Williams and they aren't switching to 4-3. Sorry.
I then asked him if he thought franchising spencer was a smart move and he said this:

Quote:
They don't care what we think. It just tells me they don't like what is in FA and they might going different route in draft.
So they really must think little of the free agents and players in the draft.

Last edited by CDCB14 : 02-14-2012 at 09:42 PM.
CDCB14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2012, 11:14 PM    (permalink
D-Unit
DC Administrator
Legend
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 58,825
Reputation: 2190609
D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.D-Unit is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

All the signing talk for Mario Williams is nice and all...

BUT... the Texas are gonna Franchise him, I'm pretty sure. We can trade for him, like I've been saying... but we can't sign him in FA like he's gonna be readily available.

Even trading for him is something that I'm not completely sold on because it uses both our 1st round AND our FA cap space.
D-Unit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2012, 08:23 AM    (permalink
leroyisgod
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Posts: 3,489
Reputation: 88707
leroyisgod is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.leroyisgod is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.leroyisgod is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.leroyisgod is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.leroyisgod is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.leroyisgod is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.leroyisgod is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.leroyisgod is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.leroyisgod is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.leroyisgod is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.leroyisgod is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Just curious, what is everyone's profession? Me, I own my own online marketing company.
leroyisgod is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:12 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.