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Old 02-05-2012, 03:08 PM    (permalink
boknows34
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Originally Posted by Vox Populi View Post
There's still quite a few first ballot guys, or much better options (Michael Strahan, Larry Allen, Jonathan Ogden, Orlando Pace, Walter Jones, Warren Sapp, Derrick Brooks, Ty Law, Kevin Mawae, Junior Seau, Kurt Warner, Brett Favre, Randy Moss, and Terrell Owens) that are going to be coming up in 2013-2015 to make their chances of squeaking in before all of the other receivers more difficult too. 2014 and 2015 aren't great years with the only real notables being Favre, T.O. and Moss in 2015, and Dungy and Harrison in 2014, neither of whom are even remotely first ballot guys so 2014 is definitely a year for a lot of leftovers to get in.

2015 is actually very strong but I'd agree 2014 is the best chance for any of the leftovers. If one assumes Ogden, Strahan and Allen are all 1st ballot in 2013 (all 3 made the Top 100 Greatest Ever on NFLN) that leaves Sapp fighting with Parcells, Shields, the 3 WRs, Haley, Greene, Bettis and the other holdovers from yesterday for just two remaining modern era places.

I can see Sapp missing out next year and possibly going in together with his Tampa Bay teammate Derrick Brooks in 2014. Shields may also be squeezed out by Ogden and Allen but he will also be there by 2014 (there will be 2 OL in 2013 with the other elite lineman in 2014). That would be Shields' 3rd year of eligibility - the same as when Randall McDaniel was elected.

The list of 1st-time eligibles:
2013 - Jon Ogden, Michael Strahan, Warren Sapp, Larry Allen, Morten Andersen, John Lynch.
2014 - Derrick Brooks, Marvin Harrison, Zach Thomas, Tony Dungy, Mike Holmgren.
2015 - Junior Seau, Kurt Warner, Walter Jones, Orlando Pace, Isaac Bruce, Torry Holt, Kevin Mawae, Ty Law, Edgerrin James.
2016 - Brett Favre, Terrell Owens, Darren Sharper, Alan Faneca.
2017 - Jason Taylor, Brian Dawkins, Hines Ward, LaDainian Tomlinson

Last edited by boknows34 : 06-17-2012 at 04:11 PM. Reason: Adding Dawkins, LT2 and Ward to the list. Moss (2016) comeback in 2012.
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Old 02-05-2012, 03:12 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bearsfan_51 View Post
I'm still less than bullish about Carter or Reed's chances in the near future (why people only talk about Carter I don't understand, little difference in their resumes). There will be a flood of excellent receivers soon, and I'm still not sure how it will all play out.
I think Carter was a better receiver. Reed was good, especially after the catch, but Carter had the complete package. He accomplished a lot with journeyman quarterbacks throwing to him, scored a boatload of touchdowns, was good deep, and had the best hands I've ever seen in my life, including better than Rice.

Weird, because he always looked like a fat guy to me in his uniform.
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Old 02-05-2012, 03:29 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by yodapoop View Post
Why no love for wide receivers man? All 3 of those guys (Reed, Carter, and Brown) deserve it over Martin. Sure, Reed had Jim Kelly throwing it to him, sure Tim Brown had some good QBs if I recall correctly, and Carter had well um Randall Cunningham for a couple years or so, but at least in Carter's and Brown's case they still produced when their QBs changed. I don't get it man. I don't get it.
Tim Brown had Rich Gannon for his age 33-36 seasons. Apart from that, he had such luminaries as Jay Schroeder, Todd Marinovich, Vince Evans, Billy Joe Hobert, Donald Hollas, Jeff Hostetler and Jeff George.
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Old 02-05-2012, 03:33 PM    (permalink
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Fair or not, quality of teammates doesn't seem to matter much to HOF voters.
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Old 02-05-2012, 03:36 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by 49ers1984 View Post
Your probably right unfortunately Curtis Martins bad selection will open the door for more good not great rbs. HOF is getting watered down.
Edgerrin James was arguable the best runningback for 2-3 year stretch.
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Old 02-05-2012, 03:42 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bearsfan_51 View Post
Guys in the Hall of Fame who averaged 4.0 YPC or less
1) Floyd Little
2) Alphonso "Tuffy" Leeman
3) Harold "Red" Grange
4) Clarke Hinkle
5) Billy Dudley
6) John Riggins

Franco Harris and Marcus Allen averaged 4.1
He still was just pretty much a good RB. Out of the 11 years he played he only had double digit TD's 4 times. He lead the league in rushing one time and was ALL Pro once. Being good for a long time should get you in the Hall of Fame.
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Old 02-05-2012, 04:01 PM    (permalink
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He still was just pretty much a good RB. Out of the 11 years he played he only had double digit TD's 4 times. He lead the league in rushing one time and was ALL Pro once. Being good for a long time should get you in the Hall of Fame.
Curtis Martin was All-Pro five times. You're already on the internet, why not search it yourself? Or you could just go to my first post in this thread.
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Old 02-05-2012, 04:06 PM    (permalink
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Curtis Martin was All-Pro five times. You're already on the internet, why not search it yourself? Or you could just go to my first post in this thread.
AP is the only one I look at and is the most prestigious.

One 1st team and two 2nd team for Martin.

http://www.pro-football-reference.co...M/MartCu00.htm
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Old 02-05-2012, 05:00 PM    (permalink
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Since Martin made it, I expect Shaun Alexander to make it as well.

-LT and Alexander are the only RBs with 100 or more TDs that aren't in the HOF, and we all know LT will make it.

-Top 3 in rushing TDs 5 years in a row leading the league in 2001 and 2005.

-Top 5 in total TDs 5 years in a row leading the league in 2004 and 2005.

-Won a rushing title in 2005 and finished 1 yard behind Martin in 2004.

-29th all time in rushing yards right in between hall of famers Joe Perry and Earl Campbell.

-Held the NFL record for TDs until LT came along and broke it the next season.

-2005 MVP and offensive player of the year.


He had a relatively short career with only 5 great seasons, but it was long enough for him to put up HOF caliber numbers. I didn't think he had much of a shot because of his soft image and the view that he was a product of a great offensive line, but with Martin making it and Bettis probably making it soon, I fully expect him to get in within 5 years of eligibility.
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Old 02-05-2012, 05:15 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by hockey619 View Post
i know why will shields didnt get in, hes this years willie roaf:

hes a lineman = no stats = **** him he can wait because casual fans have no idea who he is. its bull****.

roaf was imo the best tackle of his era (certainly arguable), one that included many good tackles (pace, ogden, seattle OT whos name is escaping me). he never should have waited. now will shields is waiting? eh screw the HOF.
I don't think it has much to do with him being a lineman with no stats... shields is a great player but he really wasn't a slam dunk 1st ballot G. Randall McDaniel also had 12 pro-bowls along with 7 1st team all-pro selections, and even even he had to wait 2 years. Shields will probably have to wait even longer than that as Larry Allen is extremely likely to go in before him aswell.
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Old 02-05-2012, 05:21 PM    (permalink
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Since Martin made it, I expect Shaun Alexander to make it as well.

-LT and Alexander are the only RBs with 100 or more TDs that aren't in the HOF, and we all know LT will make it.

-Top 3 in rushing TDs 5 years in a row leading the league in 2001 and 2005.

-Top 5 in total TDs 5 years in a row leading the league in 2004 and 2005.

-Won a rushing title in 2005 and finished 1 yard behind Martin in 2004.

-29th all time in rushing yards right in between hall of famers Joe Perry and Earl Campbell.

-Held the NFL record for TDs until LT came along and broke it the next season.

-2005 MVP and offensive player of the year.


He had a relatively short career with only 5 great seasons, but it was long enough for him to put up HOF caliber numbers. I didn't think he had much of a shot because of his soft image and the view that he was a product of a great offensive line, but with Martin making it and Bettis probably making it soon, I fully expect him to get in within 5 years of eligibility.
I don't think he gets in. He had a great career, but I think what is going to hold him back is the lack of rushing yards. He doesn't even have 10,000 which seems to be a benchmark for a lot of the HOF candidates. Well, at least recently. Guys like Eddie George, Tiki Barber, and Corey Dillon have more than that amount. Touchdowns is the only thing that Alexander brings to the table and I don't see it being enough.
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Old 02-05-2012, 05:23 PM    (permalink
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Steve Wisniewski has been a candidate for a while now and not a peep?
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Old 02-05-2012, 05:24 PM    (permalink
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He had a relatively short career with only 5 great seasons.
And there's your difference. 5 seasons, unless you're Gale Sayers and Earl Campbell, probably isn't enough to make the HOF. And Alexander isn't in that class.
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Old 02-05-2012, 05:26 PM    (permalink
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Steve Wisniewski has been a candidate for a while now and not a peep?
I think he has a strong resume. I'm not sure he should make it, but I'd certainly put his name up for discussion. There was a backlog of lineman (offense and defense) that's been getting cleared up in recent years.
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Old 02-05-2012, 05:31 PM    (permalink
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Terrell Davis and Jerome Bettis will both go into the HoF before Shaun Alexander. I think voters would have a hard time putting him in when his career outside of the endzone isn't significantly more impressive than a pretty big handful of other guys from his era like Tiki Barber, Clinton Portis, Edgerrin James, Jamal Lewis, Priest Holmes, Corey Dillon, Warrick Dunn, Fred Taylor, Ahman Green or Eddie George. The only thing he was ever great at was getting into the endzone behind Walter Jones and Steve Hutchinson. I don't think putting up a lot of touchdowns can separate him from guys who were otherwise a lot more productive than him.

Speaking of which, I think its pretty incredible that if Steven Jackson plays for 3 more healthy years he'll have pretty much matched Curtis Martin's production in the same amount of time. It wouldn't surprise me if I heard the exact same kind of conversation about Jackson in 8 or 9 years.
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Old 02-05-2012, 05:34 PM    (permalink
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I'd take Steven Jackson in his prime over Curtis Martin. His lack of touchdowns hurts, but the Rams offenses the last bunch of years have been an absolute embarrassment, so I can't blame him.
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Old 02-05-2012, 05:40 PM    (permalink
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Alexander - No.
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Old 02-11-2012, 12:46 PM    (permalink
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Per Howard Eskin: WR Cris Carter didn't make the Pro Football HOF I was told b cause female voter has personal problem w CC. Cost 4 votes. Missed by 1.
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Old 02-11-2012, 12:54 PM    (permalink
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so Michael Irvin is a total cokehead for all those years and gets in - Cris Carter doesn't get in and he had a better career. That makes sense.
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Old 02-11-2012, 12:54 PM    (permalink
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Howard Eskin is a sleasebag; you can't believe anything he says.
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Old 02-11-2012, 01:29 PM    (permalink
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OH MY GOD WHY IS EVERYONE SO ******* BUTTHURT ABOUT A GOD DAMN POSSESSION RECEIVER WHO PLAYED IN, LIKE, ONE MEANINGFUL PLAYOFF GAME FOR HIS ENTIRE CAREER dsflkjsdlkjf
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Old 02-11-2012, 03:53 PM    (permalink
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I didn't really pay attention to this thread much until now but this Curtis Martin hate is ridiculous, I'm beginning to think none of you watched him play and are just looking at his numbers (which are still pretty good). I don't think you guys realize how talent-less those Jets offenses were.
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Old 02-11-2012, 06:21 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diabsoule View Post
Per Howard Eskin: WR Cris Carter didn't make the Pro Football HOF I was told b cause female voter has personal problem w CC. Cost 4 votes. Missed by 1.
And there are only two female voters:

Charean Williams and Nancy ***.
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Old 02-14-2012, 12:42 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Complex View Post
Edgerrin James was arguable the best runningback for 2-3 year stretch.
He was First Team All Pro once and 4 time Pro Bowler to many ahead of him to get in.
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Old 02-18-2012, 09:50 PM    (permalink
TyBontage
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Default Hall of Fame 2012 class

Since were not a real Hall of Fame, I dont see a whole lot of problem with the limited data. Well do our best.

Also, I would say the best linemen of the 50s was possibly Lou Groza.
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