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Old 12-23-2011, 08:58 PM    (permalink
TACKLE
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Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
And what's this huge 'upside' Burfict allegedly has??

Do guys think he's going to tear it up at the combine and ASU's pro day??

I doubt it.

I think he'll run @4.7 in the 40. Be okay in his agility drills, jump 35in in the vert, maybe.

It's not like the guy is a physical specimen at ILB.
He's not Junior Seau.
If you watch him play and can't see his upside, I don't know really know what to say. I don't know what his combine numbers will be but I do know I've seen him make some plays that a 250lb 18/19 year old shouldn't be able to make.
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Old 12-23-2011, 09:25 PM    (permalink
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When's the last time an ILB 'took over' a football game??
This is a question you could pose for the vast majority of positions, particularly on D. Even a very high impact CB, S or DE is something a good team can gameplan against, and for those positions to individually 'take over a game' consistently is very rare. Of course to gameplan against them they're making a big impact already, but that's not the same thing.

Drafting is much more about having a scheme and system established and finding good fits for that, IMO, than it is expecting to pick up players that, based on their raw ability, dominate at the NFL level. QB, OT and WR seem to be positions where this is more likely to be found, and also sometimes DT, but that's about it, and even in a very top heavy draft those options run out very fast.

Or in other words, if you're sitting at 15 overall, and don't really want to trade down, and you have an ILB on the board who fits your system well but won't likely be around for your next pick, pull the trigger.
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Old 12-24-2011, 04:16 AM    (permalink
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Aside from the obvious concerns and questions everybody already has about him, I'm not buying that he brings "toughness" or "leadership" to a defense either.

He's not going to instill "fear" into anybody in the NFL. ASU's defense has never been "feared" or played "tough" since Burfict has been there. They're just another weak, run-of-the-mill Pac-12 defense.

In fact, players in the NFL are only going to use his weakness (inability to keep his head) against him. They're going to use every trick in the book to get under Burfict's skin because of how easy it is. He's his own worst enemy and they know it.

Furthermore, he's not Ozzie Newsome's type of player. Dont'a Hightower is.

Newsome is an Alabama guy through and through, and he knows who the real gems are on Bama's squad every year. If Ozzie is looking for toughness and leadership on his defense, who's also coachable.... he's going to pick Hightower.

He's already hit a few times on underrated players from Bama like LeRon McClain, Jarrett Johnson, Terrance Cody, etc.

He'll pick Hightower over Burfict 10 out of 10 times. Ozzie Newsome is no idiot.
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Old 12-24-2011, 04:20 AM    (permalink
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Aside from the obvious concerns and questions everybody already has about him, I'm not buying that he brings "toughness" or "leadership" to a defense either.

He's not going to instill "fear" into anybody in the NFL. ASU's defense has never been "feared" or played "tough" since Burfict has been there. They're just another weak, run-of-the-mill Pac-12 defense.

In fact, players in the NFL are only going to use his weakness (inability to keep his head) against him. They're going to use every trick in the book to get under Burfict's skin because of how easy it is. He's his own worst enemy and they know it.

Furthermore, he's not Ozzie Newsome's type of player. Dont'a Hightower is.

Newsome is an Alabama guy through and through, and he knows who the real gems are on Bama's squad every year. If Ozzie is looking for toughness and leadership on his defense, who's also coachable.... he's going to pick Hightower.

He's already hit a few times on underrated players from Bama like LeRon McClain, Jarrett Johnson, Terrance Cody, etc.

He'll pick Hightower over Burfict 10 out of 10 times. Ozzie Newsome is no idiot.
I sure hope you're wrong.
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Old 12-24-2011, 01:43 PM    (permalink
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I think going to a Team like the Ravens would be Great for him. The guys on that team would not let him act like that on or off the Field.
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Old 12-24-2011, 09:34 PM    (permalink
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I think going to a Team like the Ravens would be Great for him. The guys on that team would not let him act like that on or off the Field.
If we(Eagles) pass on him & he so happens to fall into the Ravens lap, I will be pissed. We did pass on Jimmy this year SMH.
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Old 12-24-2011, 09:55 PM    (permalink
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If we(Eagles) pass on him & he so happens to fall into the Ravens lap, I will be pissed. We did pass on Jimmy this year SMH.
Jimmy Smith hasn't looked great so far, and I question his ability to stay out of trouble in the future. Wouldn't touch that kid with a ten foot pole.

Same with Burfict. He is so overrated it's not even funny. I wouldn't touch him above the late 2nd round. If he drops that far and you have a chance to pick him up with a 2nd or 3rd round pick, fine. But he'd be far too risky to take with a first rounder, especially a top-15 first rounder.
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Old 12-24-2011, 11:25 PM    (permalink
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Jimmy Smith hasn't looked great so far, and I question his ability to stay out of trouble in the future. Wouldn't touch that kid with a ten foot pole.

Same with Burfict. He is so overrated it's not even funny. I wouldn't touch him above the late 2nd round. If he drops that far and you have a chance to pick him up with a 2nd or 3rd round pick, fine. But he'd be far too risky to take with a first rounder, especially a top-15 first rounder.
Actually, wrong again. Outside of the Chargers game, which wasn't entirely on him anyways, Smith has looked excellent in his limited playing time. Thank you though, for being entirely uninformed on yet another subject.

And anyone who drafts Hightower over Burfict is a ******* idiot.
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Old 12-25-2011, 09:59 AM    (permalink
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Actually, wrong again. Outside of the Chargers game, which wasn't entirely on him anyways, Smith has looked excellent in his limited playing time. Thank you though, for being entirely uninformed on yet another subject.
I've seen him getting beaten several times in games.

And JImmy Smith's liability is not just in his play... it's in his off-field behavior now and in the future. The kid is a thug, plain and simple, and you always run a risk with guys like that.

See: Pacman Jones and Aqib Talib. Jimmy Smith was poured from the exact same mold.

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And anyone who drafts Hightower over Burfict is a ******* idiot.
I'm going to hold you to this in 2-3 years.
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Old 12-25-2011, 10:38 AM    (permalink
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I've seen him getting beaten several times in games.

And JImmy Smith's liability is not just in his play... it's in his off-field behavior now and in the future. The kid is a thug, plain and simple, and you always run a risk with guys like that.

See: Pacman Jones and Aqib Talib. Jimmy Smith was poured from the exact same mold.

I'm going to hold you to this in 2-3 years.
What trouble has he been in since entering the league?

Your statements about his on the field play are ridiculous. They were playing him in off coverage all game, his best quality is his ability to press and play bump and run.

This must be like how you claim PP is a bust. He is a rookie corner at one of the more difficult positions to play.

I gave you credit earlier in this thread and you held onto it as long as you could but alas it is over...

Taze has struggled and will likely fall out of his earlier top 10 slotting but this doesn't mean that Hightower suddenly jumps into the first round, he is still a top of the 2nd round talent and Taze probably still doesn't fall out of the 1st.

He will put up some nice #s at the combine. While this won't get him back to his original top 10 ticketing, it will help him stop his fall.
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Old 12-25-2011, 11:36 AM    (permalink
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What trouble has he been in since entering the league?

Your statements about his on the field play are ridiculous. They were playing him in off coverage all game, his best quality is his ability to press and play bump and run.

This must be like how you claim PP is a bust. He is a rookie corner at one of the more difficult positions to play.

I gave you credit earlier in this thread and you held onto it as long as you could but alas it is over...

Taze has struggled and will likely fall out of his earlier top 10 slotting but this doesn't mean that Hightower suddenly jumps into the first round, he is still a top of the 2nd round talent and Taze probably still doesn't fall out of the 1st.

He will put up some nice #s at the combine. While this won't get him back to his original top 10 ticketing, it will help him stop his fall.
There's always a risk you take picking low-character kids in the first round. They might not come back to bite you in the ass their first year, or even their second year, but eventually those character concerns will creep in there and infect the locker room or cause that kid to run afoul of the law and wreck his career.
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Old 12-25-2011, 11:39 AM    (permalink
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There's always a risk you take picking low-character kids in the first round. They might not come back to bite you in the ass their first year, or even their second year, but eventually those character concerns will creep in there and infect the locker room or cause that kid to run afoul of the law and wreck his career.
Yeah, because every kid who has ever had character issues in college turns out to be a bust and a thug in the NFL.

Stop posting immediately.
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Old 12-25-2011, 11:40 AM    (permalink
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oh, this is one of those "random poster takes a 1st round prospect everyone loves, and says he's not a first rounder, taking a random shot in the dark to throw **** at the wall and try to make it stick" thread.

i love these. there's always a good 5 of them a year
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Old 12-25-2011, 11:42 AM    (permalink
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Yeah, because every kid who has ever had character issues in college turns out to be a bust and a thug in the NFL.

Stop posting immediately.
Did I say that every low-character kid becomes a bust? No. Quit it with the incessant strawmans, please.

I said that you there is significant risk involved with a low-character kid drafted in the first round. It's just as much of a risk to draft a low character kid as it is to draft a kid with medical red flags. Sure, sometimes, you buy low on that prospect and he turns out to be a player and has little trouble and you "win" on that gamble. Other times, he turns into a perpetual headache for your franchise and/or disrupts the locker room chemistry and adversely affects your team's ability to win games.

There's a reason that kids like Jimmy Smith fall to the bottom of the first round - because despite having elite physical tools, he has character concerns that DO have a possibility of turning that draft pick into a "bust" regardless of any physical ability of the player.

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Old 12-25-2011, 11:43 AM    (permalink
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oh, this is one of those "random poster takes a 1st round prospect everyone loves, and says he's not a first rounder, taking a random shot in the dark to throw **** at the wall and try to make it stick" thread.

i love these. there's always a good 5 of them a year
No, this is just a reaction to the fact that Burfict has been hyped his entire career but has simply played extremely poorly all year long and doesn't deserve to be picked in the first round.
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Old 12-25-2011, 11:49 AM    (permalink
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There's always a risk you take picking low-character kids in the first round. They might not come back to bite you in the ass their first year, or even their second year, but eventually those character concerns will creep in there and infect the locker room or cause that kid to run afoul of the law and wreck his career.
The dude had a couple minor intox pickups and smoked weed. Wippee'd doo. I see a potential team wrecking homicidal maniac here.
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Old 12-25-2011, 12:02 PM    (permalink
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The media needed someone to attack with the "serious character concern label" and Jimmy Smith was just the guy who got caught with that. We all heard about the failed drug tests but the media never said about how he was clean after his sophomore year and he graduated college.
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Old 12-25-2011, 07:00 PM    (permalink
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Did I say that every low-character kid becomes a bust? No. Quit it with the incessant strawmans, please.

I said that you there is significant risk involved with a low-character kid drafted in the first round. It's just as much of a risk to draft a low character kid as it is to draft a kid with medical red flags. Sure, sometimes, you buy low on that prospect and he turns out to be a player and has little trouble and you "win" on that gamble. Other times, he turns into a perpetual headache for your franchise and/or disrupts the locker room chemistry and adversely affects your team's ability to win games.

There's a reason that kids like Jimmy Smith fall to the bottom of the first round - because despite having elite physical tools, he has character concerns that DO have a possibility of turning that draft pick into a "bust" regardless of any physical ability of the player.
For some reason idiots keep making me post this over, but....

LOL at you insulting Burfict's Character. On field issues, yes, Character Concerns?????? no, and lol at u. My friend used to play at ASU and knew Burfict pretty well, and he rarely if ever smokes or drinks (i dont think he does at all, or at least he didn't when my firend told me, but its been a year since he was on the team, so i'm unsure) and is one of the best/nicest guys on the team. Very quiet, reserved kid who is very well manored and basically in his free time, he plays madden and ncaa in his room with his roomates...lol

Putting him in the class of Criminals and thugs like Pacman is actually offensive.
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Old 12-25-2011, 07:28 PM    (permalink
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For some reason idiots keep making me post this over, but....

LOL at you insulting Burfict's Character. On field issues, yes, Character Concerns?????? no, and lol at u. My friend used to play at ASU and knew Burfict pretty well, and he rarely if ever smokes or drinks (i dont think he does at all, or at least he didn't when my firend told me, but its been a year since he was on the team, so i'm unsure) and is one of the best/nicest guys on the team. Very quiet, reserved kid who is very well manored and basically in his free time, he plays madden and ncaa in his room with his roomates...lol

Putting him in the class of Criminals and thugs like Pacman is actually offensive.
Yeah, I've heard about that with Taze too. I know Jamal Miles and he's said he's a good dude.

I'd take Taze in the first because he's such a thumper that any 34 team needs. He needs to work on his aggressiveness after the whistle, but if he ever keeps his head, he's going to be a STUD in the NFL.
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Old 12-25-2011, 07:32 PM    (permalink
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I think the last couple of games tell you how bad a relationship Dennis Erickson and Burfict had. Burfict checked out mentally and I think part of that also forced his weight to go up a bit. That situation at ASU must have been a mess, I mean Osweiler yesterday just made a decision on a 4th down play all by himself, sending the punt team off the field. The coaches just stood there. Burfict at the end of the year just looked disinterested and as if he didn't care. Now I think what will be really important for Burfict is how he comes across in the interviews. If he can convince some teams that he isn't a complete knucklehead, that he will work hard and listen to coaching. If that happens, then coaches at the end of the first round will fall in love with him and be so self confident thinking they will channel his energy. NFL coaches, especially the ones who have winning programs at the end of round one like the Steelers, Ravens, Packers or the Jets with Rex, are very confident in their ability to coach people up and deal with certain personalities.
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Old 02-27-2012, 07:30 PM    (permalink
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And anyone who drafts Hightower over Burfict is a ******* idiot.




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Old 02-27-2012, 07:34 PM    (permalink
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I don't care if Donta Hightower ran a 4.62, he's still going to get absolutely torched in coverage in the NFL. Put on some Alabama tape and tell me you trust that player to cover Jimmy Graham or Rob Gronkowski. I don't care what his 40 time is, he still toast moving any way but forwards.

Burfict with a 10 cent head was as good a college player as Hightower. If he ever gets it on straight, he will be better. That's just a very big if. Bigger now that the combine has passed.
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Old 02-27-2012, 07:43 PM    (permalink
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I don't care if Donta Hightower ran a 4.62, he's still going to get absolutely torched in coverage in the NFL. Put on some Alabama tape and tell me you trust that player to cover Jimmy Graham or Rob Gronkowski. I don't care what his 40 time is, he still toast moving any way but forwards.

Burfict with a 10 cent head was as good a college player as Hightower. If he ever gets it on straight, he will be better. That's just a very big if. Bigger now that the combine has passed.

There are no linebackers in the NFL that you want covering Jimmy Graham or Rob Gronkowski. Go look at the tape of Patrick Willis trying to cover Jimmy Graham in the playoffs. I'd say Patrick Willis is pretty fast... and pretty good.

It's not just the 40 time. Hightower out ran him with 17 more pounds on him. Also had faster splits, higher vertical, and certainly would've oujumped him in the broad jump as well.

Not to mention the difference in football IQ and character.

Burfict doesn't make a pimple on Dont'a Hightower's a**.
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Old 02-27-2012, 07:46 PM    (permalink
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