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Old 02-28-2012, 10:51 AM    (permalink
Go_Eagles77
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Originally Posted by duesouth View Post
Kuechly has short arms and plays like it - tends to peel back off blocks - makes a ton of tackles 5+ yard downfield. I didn't think he would run slow as he has a nice burst to the ball. Only take him high if you have a good (and big) defensive line to keep him clean - otherwise avoid early.
This is why I've become less interested in Kuechly to the eagles recently. Dont'a Hightower is the best MLB in the draft for the eagles' wide 9 scheme. I honestly wouldn't mind if the eagles took Hightower 15th overall.
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Old 02-28-2012, 10:54 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Go_Eagles77 View Post
wide 9 scheme.
"Wide Nine" is a technique, not a scheme.

</pet peeve>

What the Eagles are basically doing is running an updated version of Jimmy Johnson's defense (also to a lesser extent Jim Bates'). In that scheme a player like Kuechly is a much better fit than Hightower, since you need an LB who is always going to be in the right place and can cover a lot of ground. That's not Hightower.
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Old 02-28-2012, 10:58 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by PossibleCabbage View Post
"Wide Nine" is a technique, not a scheme.

</pet peeve>

What the Eagles are basically doing is running an updated version of Jimmy Johnson's defense (also to a lesser extent Jim Bates'). In that scheme a player like Kuechly is a much better fit than Hightower, since you need an LB who is always going to be in the right place and can cover a lot of ground. That's not Hightower.
We had plenty of guys who can cover ground last year, but none of them can get off blocks. Kuechly would still be a huge upgrade, but Hightower would be able to get off blocks and get down hill much more efficiently.
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Old 02-28-2012, 10:59 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbuc View Post
I don't think teams that are picking top ten are one player away from the playoffs.
except the colts, who literally were one player difference from #1 pick to playoffs, haha.
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Old 02-28-2012, 12:24 PM    (permalink
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except the colts, who literally were one player difference from #1 pick to playoffs, haha.
And, ironically enough, that player as a QB, not a LB...further illustrating why Kuechly won't go in the Top 10, despite being an extremely talented football player.
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Old 02-28-2012, 03:39 PM    (permalink
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except the colts, who literally were one player difference from #1 pick to playoffs, haha.
Can't say for sure. The Colts have/had problems even without Peyton. I say they may have been a .500 team.

As for Kuechly if some team like the Eagles dont want him there will be several others waiting in line.
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Old 02-29-2012, 07:50 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by PossibleCabbage View Post
"Wide Nine" is a technique, not a scheme.

</pet peeve>

What the Eagles are basically doing is running an updated version of Jimmy Johnson's defense (also to a lesser extent Jim Bates'). In that scheme a player like Kuechly is a much better fit than Hightower, since you need an LB who is always going to be in the right place and can cover a lot of ground. That's not Hightower.
Actually no the Eagles went from one of the highest blitzing teams to one of the lowest. They expect to get pressure alot of the time rushing only 4. We need a physical presence up the middle and Luke is NOT that. Matthews Rolle and Chaney are all fast and can cover ground.

I was worried that Donta wouldn't grade out very good at the combine but I am OK now with taking him if he is there.
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Old 02-29-2012, 08:42 AM    (permalink
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This is why I've become less interested in Kuechly to the eagles recently. Dont'a Hightower is the best MLB in the draft for the eagles' wide 9 scheme. I honestly wouldn't mind if the eagles took Hightower 15th overall.
Kuechly probably isn't the best linebacker at shedding blocks in this draft class, but he's pretty much superior to Hightower in every other aspect. You have to remember just how god awful that BC team was, and how he almost single-handedly kept that defense respectable. He didn't have Chapman, Cody, or Dareus taking up blockers for him, and he had a big nasty coming down at him on essentially every single play. He tends to resort to the spin to shed blocks more often than he should which makes him a step late sometimes or makes him take a flatter angle to the ball carrier, but at the same time it's not like he's bad at shedding blocks. He's still an above average prospect in this respect.

So the Eagles would have the choice to pick a guy who has been pretty average for most of his career, but has good size and combine numbers, or take a guy who has pretty much been the best linebacker in college football since he's set foot on BC's campus. I'd take Kuechly in any scheme or at any linebacker position besides 3-4 OLB over Hightower in a heartbeat. You may have some guys who're fast, but in reality there is a difference between being fast and being instinctive and fast. It's why Gary Guyton sucks for the Patriots and Jerod Mayo is one of the better linebackers in the NFL.
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Old 08-22-2013, 09:18 PM    (permalink
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Ok after his rookie season and a DROY. And the beast of the game he had tonight. This guy looks to be top 2 MLB in the league. Just had to bring this back so we could talk a little about how big of a monster he is.

Also like I said... should have been a top 6 pick.
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Old 08-23-2013, 12:14 PM    (permalink
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Ok after his rookie season and a DROY. And the beast of the game he had tonight. This guy looks to be top 2 MLB in the league. Just had to bring this back so we could talk a little about how big of a monster he is.

Also like I said... should have been a top 6 pick.
As great as he's been i'm not sure anyone in the top 6 would rethink their pick. In hindsight he could have gone 7th instead of Mark Barron.
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Old 08-23-2013, 01:26 PM    (permalink
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Ok after his rookie season and a DROY. And the beast of the game he had tonight. This guy looks to be top 2 MLB in the league. Just had to bring this back so we could talk a little about how big of a monster he is.

Also like I said... should have been a top 6 pick.
As long as that other top inside backer is Sean Lee, then I agree.
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Old 08-23-2013, 01:55 PM    (permalink
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The question was never about how good he was. The reason he wasn't a Top 6 pick was because Linebacker isn't as much of a premium position.
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Old 08-23-2013, 03:40 PM    (permalink
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I had Kuechly at #7 overall in my final rankings.

I don't really recall there being an anti-Kuechly faction. It seems like just about everyone felt he was a very good football player and a safe prospect. As D-Unit said the reason Kuchley wasn't more highly regarded nationally was the positional value aspect.
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Old 08-23-2013, 05:56 PM    (permalink
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The question was never about how good he was. The reason he wasn't a Top 6 pick was because Linebacker isn't as much of a premium position.
its also because the thought of drafting an Aaron Curry or AJ Hawk in the top 6 makes team cringe...and AJ hawk is a decent pro
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Old 08-23-2013, 05:58 PM    (permalink
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I had Kuechly at #7 overall in my final rankings.

I don't really recall there being an anti-Kuechly faction. It seems like just about everyone felt he was a very good football player and a safe prospect. As D-Unit said the reason Kuchley wasn't more highly regarded nationally was the positional value aspect.
there wasnt anti Curry faction either, and when asked who was better between any linebacker prospect the last decade you said "its Curry"

Its just very tough to project 43 LBers in the top half of the first round, which is why a lot of them fall
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Old 08-23-2013, 07:18 PM    (permalink
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Lets all not get excited over a pre-season game. What I saw out of Keuchly last year was a pile jumper who didnt make enough plays at the LOS or behind it. The images of Doug Martin running through him still make get up and bark ! ha.

One preseason game does not change my opinion. He made/makes too many tackles down the field.
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Old 08-23-2013, 07:21 PM    (permalink
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Ok after his rookie season and a DROY. And the beast of the game he had tonight. This guy looks to be top 2 MLB in the league. Just had to bring this back so we could talk a little about how big of a monster he is.

Also like I said... should have been a top 6 pick.
You have a boner over Keuchly after 1 preseason game? Sheesh. I can name :
- Willis
- Bowman
- Lee
- Laurenitis
- Wahsington

All those guys are better than Keuchly. Keuchly was a pile jumper. He reminds me of Barrett Ruud. Many similarities. Makes a ton of tackles but not enough at hte LOS.
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Old 08-23-2013, 07:24 PM    (permalink
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there wasnt anti Curry faction either, and when asked who was better between any linebacker prospect the last decade you said "its Curry"

Its just very tough to project 43 LBers in the top half of the first round, which is why a lot of them fall
If you are talking pure 4-3 OLB's I think Curry probably ranks right up there with the best of the 2000's based on their grades coming out of college. With that said I didn't grade Curry as "Elite".

It does seem as though teams are becoming less and less willing to invest a premium draft choices on linebackers who doesn't rush the passer these days.
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Old 08-23-2013, 07:41 PM    (permalink
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What would it take for a MLB to be considered a top-5 lock these days? It seems like you'd want a guy who was an effective pass defender as well as a run-stopper, almost like an XL strong safety in the middle of the defense who can cover tight ends, drop running backs and make the defensive calls, but have the strength and physicality to shed offensive linemen and make plays in heavy traffic. Seems like if an MLB is going to be considered a blue-chip prospect anymore, he'd have to be extremely versatile, otherwise the team that drafts him is going to be compensating for some defienciency, somehow, whether it's with a safety taking some of the coverage pressure off of the linebacker, or other stouter players taking some of the physical burden off of a fast, fluid linebacker so he can make tackles. So, if I was going to draft a middle linebacker in the top-5, I'd want:

6'+
240 lbs +
4.55 or faster
High intelligence - can diagnose plays and relay that information to his teammates
Strong instincts - knows where to be and is there
Good agility and loose hips - for coverage ability and to not be juked by jitterbugs
Strong technique - ability to shed blocks and consistly make good tackles
Willingness to tackle/aggressiveness and desire for contact

I think if a player has those things and a team needs a middle linebacker, then he's worth a top-5 pick, because he'll be the glue in the middle of the defense and it's important, even if the NFL isn't as much about running backs and linebackers anymore. There are a lot of linebackers who have a lot of these traits, but not too many who are strong in all of them.
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Old 08-23-2013, 09:22 PM    (permalink
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You have a boner over Keuchly after 1 preseason game? Sheesh. I can name :
- Willis
- Bowman
- Lee
- Laurenitis
- Wahsington

All those guys are better than Keuchly. Keuchly was a pile jumper. He reminds me of Barrett Ruud. Many similarities. Makes a ton of tackles but not enough at hte LOS.
Not after one game. I wanted our Bucs to draft him. He did win DROY last year.

In my book the only two that could even be in the convo with Keuchly is Bowman and Willis. The fact that you put Lee or Laurenitis up there shows that you've let who you root for and who Keuchly plays for in your process. When it should just be his play that does the talking.
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Old 08-23-2013, 09:49 PM    (permalink
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It does seem as though teams are becoming less and less willing to invest a premium draft choices on linebackers who doesn't rush the passer these days.
I've been saying that for ever. Willis fell to 11th when he should have been a top 5 pick. Keuchly was picked at 9 which is the highest.

But NFL teams have this problem with LB's that just tackle.
Sean Lee
Lavonte David
Daryl Washington
NaVorro Bowman
Chad Greenway
Paul Posluszny
James Laurinaitis

All these guys come into the draft and all everyone says is they can play great football, but because all they do is see ball, get ball. Most drop to the 2nd round. When in fact if you redraft any of the years these guy got drafted they'd be drafted 15 to 20 spots higher.
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Old 08-23-2013, 10:55 PM    (permalink
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Not after one game. I wanted our Bucs to draft him. He did win DROY last year.

In my book the only two that could even be in the convo with Keuchly is Bowman and Willis. The fact that you put Lee or Laurenitis up there shows that you've let who you root for and who Keuchly plays for in your process. When it should just be his play that does the talking.
Not really fellow buc fan. I actually did not want Keuchly drafted to Tampa last year, too many tackles down the field. Regardless of who drafted him, my opinion wouldn't have changed, until he proved me wrong.

So don't call my opinion due to the team I root for.

On another note, Freeman sucks and won;t take us to the playoffs. Hows that for being a homer?
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Old 08-23-2013, 11:34 PM    (permalink
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You have a boner over Keuchly after 1 preseason game? Sheesh. I can name :
- Willis
- Bowman
- Lee
- Laurenitis
- Wahsington

All those guys are better than Keuchly. Keuchly was a pile jumper. He reminds me of Barrett Ruud. Many similarities. Makes a ton of tackles but not enough at hte LOS.
This is what people say about like every MLB tackling machine these days, ESPECIALLY Laurenitis.
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Old 08-24-2013, 07:38 AM    (permalink
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You have a boner over Keuchly after 1 preseason game? Sheesh. I can name :
- Willis
- Bowman
- Lee
- Laurenitis
- Wahsington

All those guys are better than Keuchly. Keuchly was a pile jumper. He reminds me of Barrett Ruud. Many similarities. Makes a ton of tackles but not enough at hte LOS.
LOL. Washington isn't 240#. Laurinaitis doesn't have Kuechly's range, Lee can't stay healthy and IMO isn't as instinctive as Kuechly. I don't think any MIKE in the game has Kuechly's pure diagnostic skills.

You can't be a 'pile jumper' if you're consistently the first defender to the ball carrier.

Nobody in their right mind would trade Kuechly for Washington/Laurinaitis/Lee.

It's a push for Willis and Bowman.
IMO Kuechly is that good and appears so far to be improved over his DROTY season.
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Old 08-24-2013, 07:57 AM    (permalink
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By the end of this year or next, I think Kuechly will be to MLB's what JJ Watt is to DE's. Even a guy like Willis will take a backseat to him. He has everything he needs in his toolbox, and with another season of experience I see him taking a big leap in the 2 biggest areas of weakness in his game; pass coverage and stacking/shedding. The man just knows where the football is going to go, and has the athleticism to get there quickly. He probably has one of the best football senses of anyone alive, and in his second year there are already signs that those things are manifesting themselves more often on the field.
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