New England Patriots Discussion

[descendency]

Originally Posted by AntoinCD

I love Fletcher Cox but I don't think he's a good system fit. Brockers and Still would be my top 2 defensive linemen

I'm not a fan of Still. He strikes me as a guy whom is raw, but "developed." I'm not saying he's not coachable; I'm just saying it will take a lot more coaching to get what you would expect from a 6'5" 310 pound frame.

I also think he goes a lot higher than NE would be interested, because of his physical size.

As far as the order, I only numbered them because I wanted to know how many I had given 1st round grades to.

[Matthew Jones]

I'm not sure Fletcher Cox or Devon Still are fits in the defense, although Cox is someone who it might be worth creating a role for. He is incredibly strong and athletic, and can put pressure on the passer. He would project as an under tackle in the four-man fronts, replacing Kyle Love. However, he is a one-gap player who does not fit as a five-technique in our traditional base defense; he would be limited to defensive end on obvious passing downs. His leverage and balance are both very poor and he often ends up on the ground as a result; Cox can draw double teams but gets completely controlled and is driven out of the play or onto the ground when confronted with them. Asking him to assume responsibility for two gaps is a waste of his primary talent, which is shooting gaps. Mentally, I'm not sure he is someone I would want to give a lot of different responsibilities or complicated reads to. Overall, I think someone else is going to value him more than New England does.

Devon Still and Jerel Worthy are two other guys whose primary value is in penetrating rather than anchoring; both could develop into two-gap players but it would be somewhat of a waste of their talents. Michael Brockers is more of a traditional two-gap player but as a prospect he's more Kentwan Balmer than Cameron Heyward. How often does New England draft sophomores with no career production? He should be in play for the #27 and #31 overall picks, but a trade up would be severely overdrafting him. If the Patriots were to move up, Dontari Poe would be someone to watch out for, although I think he will be headed to Kansas City at #11 overall so that would require a massive move up. A player like Kendall Reyes may be a good fit at #48 overall.

[FlyingElvis]

Originally Posted by Matthew Jones

How often does New England draft sophomores with no career production?

It doesn't happen.

I don't have the time to research it again, but I believe BB has one sophmore in his Patriots draft history. It may even be zero. Either way, it was a super low number through the top 4-5 rounds, iirc.

[Wootylicous]

I really hope Nick Perry fall to the Pats

[Matthew Jones]

Originally Posted by Wooty Magic!

I really hope Nick Perry fall to the Pats

Agreed, although that doesn't seem likely at all.

[Wootylicous]

Let's hope he have a bad combine and fall to us :D

[AntoinCD]

I think there's every chance a guy like Perry could fall to the Pats.

There are a lot of guys fighting it out to be the top of the pass rushing tree in the draft

Coples
Upshaw
Mercilus
Ingram
Perry
Branch


Coples probably goes high based on upside and measureables
Upshaw will be a top 20 player

Then it's really a pick your flavour kinda thing. Although of the four guys left Perry has the best chance to have a real good combine performance.

But some of these guys will fall to the end of the first. Based on a conservative assumption of

2 QBs
1 RB
3 WRs
4 OTs
2 OGs
1 OC
3 DTs
5 DE/OLBs
1 LB
3 CBs
1 S

There's 26 players as a conservative estimate. That's not bringing in guys like Lamar Miller, Zach Brown, Ryan Tannenhill, Kevin Zeitler etc.

[descendency]

Originally Posted by FlyingElvis

It doesn't happen.

Unless they are WRs. Then 0 production isn't a problem :/

[Nalej]

1st rd predictions. I'll take any of these for the most part

[descendency]

Cam Johnson, 1.66 10 yard split. Lock for NE. 2nd round.

Fletcher Cox showed the kind of stuff NE likes for DL. His tape isn't as favorable, though.

[Wootylicous]

Mercilus with one of our pick ?

[AntoinCD]

Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if they wen't for a guy like Chase Minnifield or Jayron Hosley at the end of the first. It's exactly the type of move BB would make.

Other guys would be

Peter Konz
Mark Barron
Andre Branch

I don't see any of the top defensive linemen being available at 27 and with the exceptions of Brockers none are a great fit.

[Razor]

Originally Posted by Wooty Magic!

Mercilus with one of our pick ?

After seeing him today I definitely feel better about him. I think BB will give him a long, hard look since he fits every criterion besides the fact that he's a one year wonder. Then again, so was CMIII.

[descendency]

Originally Posted by Razor

After seeing him today I definitely feel better about him. I think BB will give him a long, hard look since he fits every criterion besides the fact that he's a one year wonder. Then again, so was CMIII.

BB will trade out of a spot if he gets a good deal for the pick. It's just his nature.

[descendency]

Originally Posted by Wooty Magic!

I really hope Nick Perry fall to the Pats

Personally, I see him as a 43 DE only. More straight line speed than actual flexibility.

[Don Vito]

Mike Wallace...lets make it happen

[Razor]

Originally Posted by Don Vito

Mike Wallace...lets make it happen

Yes please. I quickly gained a stiffy when I read that the Steelers aren't going to franchise him. Roll the dice, BB.

[ryno626]

Sign this guy, give up #31 and draft defense defense and more defense. YO SOY FIESTA!!!!


But in reality we're going to trade out of both first round picks to make up the picks we lost in OchoCinco and Fat Albert debacle.

[Matthew Jones]

Call me crazy, but Andre Branch may be the best fit for the Patriots' 3-4 defense. Great anchor against the run, disciplined backside contain, strong bull rush, ideal size. He has also rushed from a two-point stance extensively in college and is a senior as well. Whitney Mercilus is athletic but relies solely on his bull rush and doesn't shed blocks particularly well.

[Razor]

I've been thinking about the whole 4-3 vs. 3-4 thing and I've come up with two scenarios that I find plausible:

Estimated cap space after cuts and restructures: ~$30 mil.

Cuts
Matt Light
Ochocinco
Ron Brace

Trades
Brian Hoyer: 5th round pick

Staying in the 4-3

FA
Franchise Wes Welker. Cost: $9.4 mil. guaranteed.
Sign Mario Williams. Cost: 5 years $55 mil. w/ $30 mil. guaranteed.
Sign Michael Griffin. Cost: 4 years $22 mil. w/ $12 mil. guaranteed.
Sign Terrell Thomas. Cost: 4 years $20 mil. w/ $9 mil. guaranteed.

Draft
1a. Fletcher Cox, DT, Mississippi State (trade up, giving up 3rd round pick)
1b. Traded for 2013 first rounder + 2012 3rd round pick
2a. Harrison Smith, SS, Notre Dame
2b. Brandon Brooks, OG, Miami (OH)
3. Juron Criner, WR, Arizona
4. Joe Adams, WR, Arkansas
5. Mike Harris, CB, Florida State

Swithing back to the 3-4

FA
Trade for Mike Wallace: Cost: #31. Contract: 4 years $48 mil. w/$26 mil. guaranteed.
Franchise Wes Welker and trade him. Yields second round pick + conditional 2013 5th round pick.
Sign Michael Griffin. Cost: 4 years $22 mil. w/ $12 mil. guaranteed.
Sign Terrell Thomas. Cost: 4 years $20 mil. w/ $9 mil. guaranteed.

Draft
1. Michael Brockers, DE, LSU (trade up, giving up #27 + #63)
2a. Kevin Zeitler, OG, Wisconsin
2b. Shea McClellin, DE/OLB, Boise State
3. Jayron Hosley, CB, Virginia Tech
4. Ryan Broyles, WR, Oklahoma
5. Michael Brewster, C, Ohio State

Of course, this is all wishful thinking. But what do you say?

[Matthew Jones]

My ideal Patriots draft:

1. C Peter Konz, Wisconsin*

1. DE Andre Branch, Clemson

2. CB Brandon Boykin, Georgia

2. SS Harrison Smith, Notre Dame

3. WR Ryan Broyles, Oklahoma

4. WR LaVon Brazill, Ohio

[Razor]

Originally Posted by Matthew Jones

My ideal Patriots draft:

1. C Peter Konz, Wisconsin*

1. DE Andre Branch, Clemson

2. CB Brandon Boykin, Georgia

2. SS Harrison Smith, Notre Dame

3. WR Ryan Broyles, Oklahoma

4. WR LaVon Brazill, Ohio

I would absolutely love that. But I wouldn't count on it... It makes too much sense for BB to do it.

[FlyingElvis]

Originally Posted by Matthew Jones

My ideal Patriots draft:

1. C Peter Konz, Wisconsin*

1. DE Andre Branch, Clemson

2. CB Brandon Boykin, Georgia

2. SS Harrison Smith, Notre Dame

3. WR Ryan Broyles, Oklahoma

4. WR LaVon Brazill, Ohio

Yup . . . looks perfect. So it ain't happenin . . .

[FlyingElvis]

PFW has cuts as a topic today. Ocho is the obvious one. Light is another, though they do mention that Light has "hinted" at retirement. I really hope he does, as I don't want to see him anywhere else. Retiring a Patriot is perfect for a guy like Light, who has been awesome for us for so long.

[AntoinCD]

Originally Posted by FlyingElvis

PFW has cuts as a topic today. Ocho is the obvious one. Light is another, though they do mention that Light has "hinted" at retirement. I really hope he does, as I don't want to see him anywhere else. Retiring a Patriot is perfect for a guy like Light, who has been awesome for us for so long.

I actually kinda hope that Ocho restructures and Branch comes back for a very team friendly deal. Obviously though I hope the Pats strongly address the position, but having guys with the leadership and work ethic of these guys (yes Ocho runs his mouth on twitter but he is and always has been a hard worker) is only a good thing.

If Ocho improves with a full offseason thats just gravy but if not at least he can show younger players how to keep in shape in the offseason etc.

What I don't want is for next year to have a really young set of WRs with no leadership and no familiarity with the system. Getting Mike Wallace would be great but we don't know how he would do in the system. Drafting Stephen Hill, Kendall Wright, Reuben Randle etc holds the same worries.