Saints violate "bounty rule" - Page 5

descendency · 03-02-2012, 04:33 PM

Sounds great. Let's blame the guy that's gone now so we don't get in trouble. . .

Maybe that's why Brees wants more money... so he can pay defense to actually play.

descendency · 03-02-2012, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asdf1223

The NFL should take away the Saints first round pick for this.

I was going to say this, but then I realized that it probably wouldn't be funny :(

Crazy_Chris · 03-02-2012, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

The investigation showed that the total amount of funds in the pool may have reached $50,000 or more at its height during the 2009 playoffs. The program paid players $1,500 for a "knockout" and $1,000 for a "cart-off," with payouts doubling or tripling during the playoffs.

This shows that they actually got rewarded MORE for NOT getting the guy carted off. If you make a great play that's clean that results in injury, yeah you will get paid, but the EXTENT of the injury did NOT result in a higher payment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

Again, NOT TRUE. They actually got paid LESS for a cart off.

So again, we're making assumptions and making accusations against them that are simply not true.

I could be wrong but I have yet to read anyone state that the bonuses were mutually exclusive. At the moment you're making the assumption that the 1,000 for the cart off isn't an added bonus to the 1,500 knockout.

TACKLE · 03-02-2012, 04:42 PM

Put me down on team BBD. This is going to get made into a way bigger deal than it actually is.

It goes back to the fundamental flaw of saying 'player safety is our top priority' when the nature of this sport has elements of violence and danger.

Bulldogs · 03-02-2012, 04:45 PM

http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/36ey8a/

VAfy-ya · 03-02-2012, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Perfect Score

Wow, I go to lunch and this is what I miss. Obviously if the Saints were intentionally trying to injure players, they should and will be penalized. I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing, however, to offer incentive for big hits, so long as those hits aren't done with the specific intention of injuring people. As someone who played football are a somewhat decent level (Canada, damn) for a long time, I can tell you fairly confidently that there's a really big (and cognizant) difference between aiming to intimidate and aiming to injure. Football is a physical game and there's an injury risk every time you step on the field, but there's no reason to step beyond that and try and make it intentional. That kind of behaviour underscores the physical nature of the game. Im not watching to see people hurt, I dunno about you guys.

This. You can play physical and imtimidate, without injuring people. There are "woo" hits every Sunday that guys bounce back up off the turf from because their clean, hard fundemental hits. But having a bingo sheet for "cart offs" and "knock-out" hits just looks like your trying to do more than just play a good, physical game. That word "intent" carries a lot burden when you start doing things of that nature. If your keeping a score card, one might think that the intent behind those hits were to injury and thus, get paid......and that's a problem.

Bulldogs · 03-02-2012, 04:52 PM

This article carries alot more weight now.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/73...ied-injure-him

Complex · 03-02-2012, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TACKLE

Put me down on team BBD. This is going to get made into a way bigger deal than it actually is.

It goes back to the fundamental flaw of saying 'player safety is our top priority' when the nature of this sport has elements of violence and danger.

This, its not like the saints players were going after players knees.When Kurt Warner got hurt it was a clean hit.

bigbluedefense · 03-02-2012, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taber21

I read this, but my problem with this is why are they getting paid for other players getting carted off at all? So if a guy gets hit and breaks his neck, never walks again, that is a good thing, and is rewarded by the Saints with $?

We don't know specifics of the payment system yet. We may never know exactly how it worked.

It could be that Player A hit Player B cleanly and resulted in Player B getting carted off, and Player A was rewarded for making the hit. The hit resulted in an injury, but was not necessarily the sole reason why payment was made.

Or it could be a scenario where Player A purposely injured Player B after the whistle that resulted in a cart off, and was injured for that specific reason of getting him carted off the field. In this situation, what they did was clearly wrong.

Or it could be a scenario in the middle.

The truth is, we DON'T KNOW, and from the statements issued by the NFL, it sounds like the first scenario stated where the payments were part of a performance plan was the most likely scenario. That is what their statements are implying.

And until I'm provided with more evidence to show that the accusations getting thrown around by the media and in this thread are true, I'm going to assume that the first scenario is what happened because thats basically what the NFL is stating at this time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy_Chris

I could be wrong but I have yet to read anyone state that the bonuses were mutually exclusive. At the moment you're making the assumption that the 1,000 for the cart off isn't an added bonus to the 1,500 knockout.

This is true as well. Again, we don't know. But I think it's unfair to assume that right now. Based off of what we know right here right now, I don't see anything wrong with what they did.

Steady Lurkin · 03-02-2012, 05:03 PM

BOUNTYGATE

WATERBOUNTY

Am I doing this right?

diabsoule · 03-02-2012, 05:05 PM

As punishment I'm expecting heavy fines, suspensions for players they have evidence against (Vilma), forfeiting of draft picks, the possible resignation of Loomis as the GM, and Gregg Williams having the hammer come down on him.

The Saints will be used as an example by Goodell and it's going to hurt.

Rabscuttle · 03-02-2012, 05:05 PM

So does Sean Payton's knee injury warrant a "haha"?

Legacy · 03-02-2012, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diabsoule

As punishment I'm expecting heavy fines, suspensions for players they have evidence against (Vilma), forfeiting of draft picks, the possible resignation of Loomis as the GM, and Gregg Williams having the hammer come down on him.

The Saints will be used as an example by Goodell and it's going to hurt.

I think Loomis will be fired before he has a chance to resign, especially if the report about him lying to Benson's face about shutting down the bounty pool is true.

yodapoop · 03-02-2012, 05:06 PM

Bring this to St. Louis!!!!!!!!! Just do a better job of hiding it.

HeavyLeggedWaistBender · 03-02-2012, 05:08 PM

BBD be trollin.

I love defense. Defense is turnovers, tackles, and sacks. Nothing to do with ambulances. This was a hit squad. As a long time Bear fan, and even longer human being, I hate Brett Favre and I loved watching him take all those hits. I reeaallly did. But that's when I thought they were genuine, hard nosed, playoff hits. To think there was an ulterior motive as twisted as money to hurt him is pretty ****** up.

Legacy · 03-02-2012, 05:20 PM

This is from LaCanfora's twitter page, so take it with a grain of salt...

Quote:

Memo sent to NFL clubs notes an incident with Saints LB Jon Vilma putting up $10K cash for a pre-playoff bounty and also notes that Sean Payton's agent, Mike Ornstein, put up money for a bounty on two occasions. Memo says the actions of Payton and GM Mickey Loomis serves as "conduct detrimental" to the game. Hard not to think steep punishment is coming

Here's one from the Washington Post:

Quote:

#Redskins had bounty system for hits on opponents similar to one revealed by an #NFL investigation of the #Saints. wapo.st/wtdbv7

Gregg Williams is in for a world of hurt if this is true.

Complex · 03-02-2012, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Washington Post reports Redskins had a bounty system for big hits on opponents under their former defensive coordinator Gregg Williams

Adam Schefter twitter

YoJoeBucsFan · 03-02-2012, 05:26 PM

Drop the hammer on the 'Aints.

H.O.O.D · 03-02-2012, 05:31 PM

The Rams might be looking for another DC.

Taber21 · 03-02-2012, 05:31 PM

I think what may end up happening, whether it is right or wrong, is legal action being brought up by players who have been injured playing against Greg Williams coached teams. Not thinking of certain examples/players and not saying I agree with it, but it would not surprise me at all if this happens.

Splat · 03-02-2012, 05:34 PM

Haven't read all of the thread sorry if all ready posted.

http://rotoworld.com/

Quote:

"I think it's gonna be a penalty that's gonna exceed SpyGate," Clayton said on SportsCenter. "I think you're probably gonna see the organization fined significantly, maybe close to $1 million. I think you're gonna see multiple draft choices taken away. ... Maybe a first-round pick next year and some other pick this year."

Bert Macklin · 03-02-2012, 05:40 PM

yodapoop · 03-02-2012, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by H.O.O.D

The Rams might be looking for another DC.

Nah it will be a heavy fine at the most. I can almost guarantee almost all the teams in the NFL have **** like this going on...the Saints just got caught.

Complex · 03-02-2012, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yodapoop

Nah it will be a heavy fine at the most. I can almost guarantee almost all the teams in the NFL have **** like this going on...the Saints just got caught.

He did it with the redskins, I doubt he coaches this season. Chuck Cecil is on your staff. He has DC experience.

yodapoop · 03-02-2012, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Complex

He did it with the redskins, I doubt he coaches this season. Chuck Cecil is on your staff. He has DC experience.

Oh I read Shefter's tweet wrong, I thought it said that the Redskins did it this year. But yeah if its a repeat violater, well, blah.