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Old 03-02-2012, 11:46 AM    (permalink
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Default RG3 Becoming Overrated

I think people are starting to overrate RG3 because of the success of Cam Newton. I honestly donít get what the hoopla is all about. Whoever drafts him with the notion that he is Cam Newton will be really disappointed. Newton is much bigger, stronger, with that ďrocketí right arm and huge body that can dish out punishment. I may be wrong but I think RG3 is going to be a flop because he canít physically do the things that Newton can do. I could be wrong but I donít think RG3 will live up to the hype.
The best thing that happened to him was Cam Newton having a great season because if not, he would not be as valued as he is now. I would like to end this by saying that RG3 is not better than Cam Newton coming out nor will he be a better pro. Newtonís physical attributes are off the charts.
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Old 03-02-2012, 12:27 PM    (permalink
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That's fine... but NFL talent evaluators will realize that Newton and Griffin are completely different QBs.

Newton ran about as much as he threw the ball at Auburn. RGIII is much more accomplished as a passer. He's thrown over 1100 passes at Baylor and completed 66% of them, with the completion percentage, yards, TDs, and QB Rating improving every year.

Compare that with Newton, who only threw 292 passes to go along with 285 rushing attemps in major college football.

Honestly it's a bit of revisionist history to think that Newton was a superior prospect to Griffin coming out.
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Old 03-02-2012, 01:07 PM    (permalink
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Luck compares more with Cam Newton than Griffin does.

Griffin is like a taller, stronger Michael Vick (but with top notch character).
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Old 03-02-2012, 01:20 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by BoiseSt39 View Post
Luck compares more with Cam Newton than Griffin does.

Griffin is like a taller, stronger Michael Vick (but with top notch character).
He's not like Michael Vick at all. I agree with your Luck/Newton comparison somewhat, in that their body types are similar (though Newton is bigger and stronger) and Newton's rookie year playing style is similar to what I would expect out of Luck. I wouldn't compare them as prospects but Luck the prospect compares favorably with post-rookie year Newton, if that makes sense.

But Vick as a prospect was not a pocket passer. He was a a freak athlete and a run-first QB with a rocket arm. He was not nearly the accomplished passer that Griffin is. Griffin is a pocket passer with high-end (but not quite Vick level) athleticism.
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Old 03-02-2012, 01:21 PM    (permalink
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Luck compares more with Cam Newton than Griffin does.

Griffin is like a taller, stronger Michael Vick (but with top notch character).
Unless you are talking purely in numbers.. then no, he doesn't.

Luck may have outstanding test numbers, that are in the same realm as Newton, but he is almost the exact opposite as a prospect as Newton coming out.

Great pre-snap
Plenty of experience in a pro offense, throwing pro routes
Zero off field concerns
Great at going through whole field progressions

You couldn't say any of those things about Newton coming out.
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Old 03-02-2012, 01:29 PM    (permalink
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Unless you are talking purely in numbers.. then no, he doesn't.

Luck may have outstanding test numbers, that are in the same realm as Newton, but he is almost the exact opposite as a prospect as Newton coming out.

Great pre-snap
Plenty of experience in a pro offense, throwing pro routes
Zero off field concerns
Great at going through whole field progressions

You couldn't say any of those things about Newton coming out.
Very true. I was just referring to body type.
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Old 03-02-2012, 01:33 PM    (permalink
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Very true. I was just referring to body type.
I thought so. Was just making sure.

Honestly I think if Newton was coming out as a prospect with Luck and Griffin, he would go 3rd.

Luck and Griffin just don't have the amount of question marks about them that Cam did. Cam would have the highest upside, just because of the size and arm paired with his running ability, but he also would have had the lowest floor. Obviously he had a great rookie season, so that skews people's memory of him as a prospect.
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Old 03-02-2012, 01:56 PM    (permalink
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I don't have a problem with RG3's draft grade

I have a problem with the Rams trading down.

if the Rams had any balls at all they'd stick at 2 and take either RG3 (cause he's better than Bradford) or Kalil (cause they need to protect Bradford). The trade down never ever works.

3 historical examples

1) Bill Parcells' Jets in 1997 trading down twice, missing out on Orlando Pace and Walter Jones, for James Farrior. Who left after his rookie deal to become a pro bowler with the Steelers. They got Dedric Ward and Jason Ferguson maybe? none of those guys were even close to as good as either Pace or Jones.

2) Ricky Williams was the only decent player in the Mike Ditka trade with the Skins. The Skins got the Saints whole draft and nothing to show for it. Go ahead and look those players up, I'll save you some time they all sucked.

3) Eli has 2 rings, Rivers has 0. And that wasn't even the Chargers' fault, they couldn't sign Eli and did well with their picks.

my point is there's a reason why these guys are so good people want to trade up for them. And trading down is a gutless ballsless way to go through the NFL draft. To use a Chess metaphor (nerdy!) You can get pawns and knights you won't get a Queen by trading down.
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Old 03-02-2012, 02:00 PM    (permalink
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The trade down never ever works.
I'm fairly certain you can find one time that it has worked, if you REALLY tried...

/speaking in absolutes pet peeve
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Old 03-02-2012, 02:43 PM    (permalink
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2) Ricky Williams was the only decent player in the Mike Ditka trade with the Skins. The Skins got the Saints whole draft and nothing to show for it. Go ahead and look those players up, I'll save you some time they all sucked.
Those picks were turned into:

Jon Jansen (1x Pro bowler)
Champ Bailey (11 x Pro bowler)
Lavar Arrington(3 x Pro bowler)

Just fyi

I am almost always in favor of trading down unless you need a franchise qb AND a guy that you like is there.

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Old 03-02-2012, 03:10 PM    (permalink
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Those picks were turned into:

Jon Jansen (1x Pro bowler)
Champ Bailey (11 x Pro bowler)
Lavar Arrington(3 x Pro bowler)

Just fyi

I am almost always in favor of trading down unless you need a franchise qb AND a guy that you like is there.
I stand corrected kinda. but if memory serves Champ Bailey was not selected with the NO Pick. The Skins had to take the NO pick (at 12) and trade up to get bailey. the 12 pick turned into Cade McNown.

I still think it's gutless most of the time. They aren't gonna find a left tackle by trading down.

I also believe Bradford probably isn't better than RG3. They have convinced themselves because of the money they have to pay him. But he's fragile and it's hard to see him getting through 16 games in any given season.
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Old 03-02-2012, 03:25 PM    (permalink
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my point is there's a reason why these guys are so good people want to trade up for them. And trading down is a gutless ballsless way to go through the NFL draft. To use a Chess metaphor (nerdy!) You can get pawns and knights you won't get a Queen by trading down.
Michael Vick

LaDainian Tomlinson
Drew Brees
Tim Dwight
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Old 03-02-2012, 03:32 PM    (permalink
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Id say he's underrated. He's an excellent QB prospect with pro bowl potential.
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Old 03-02-2012, 03:39 PM    (permalink
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Is he perhaps getting a bit over-rated? Perhaps. But I still think the RG3/Newton comparisons aren't fair to ... Newton (at the same stage). RG3 shows much better field vision development than Cam did at Auburn. He shows better awareness, and seems to show a decent adeptness, within the pocket, to read 1-5. RG3 is simply a much better passer than Newton coming out of college, imo. He might not have the cannon arm of Newton, but he has good arm strength.

Part of this isn't Newton's fault. Part of it is simply the system Newton played in. But yes, I'd take RG3 this year over Newton last year in a heartbeat, no 2nd thought about it (honestly), and I thought Newton was a very worthy first overall last year.
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Old 03-02-2012, 03:45 PM    (permalink
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Im not saying Griffin isnt going to bust because i wouldnt be suprised if he did but he is a lot better prospect than Newton. The only thing Newton has over Griffin is arm strength. Other than that i think Griffin is better in every other aspect in his game, except pocket presence. I dont like Griffins pocket presence.
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Old 03-03-2012, 02:29 PM    (permalink
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I think who ever trades up to get him is stupid. I Love RGIII as a Prospect, I Love Andrew Luck way more. If you look at the past then you will see that Trading away almost an entire Draft for one player no matter how good is not going to help you in the long run. If a Team trades three first and a couple of seconds for him that is a trade I would not do because if you are already a bad team and RGIII turns into a Franchise QB that great but when you can't get him a Great WR/RB/O-Line it will hurt him going forward.
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Old 03-03-2012, 02:33 PM    (permalink
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Im not saying Griffin isnt going to bust because i wouldnt be suprised if he did but he is a lot better prospect than Newton. The only thing Newton has over Griffin is arm strength. Other than that i think Griffin is better in every other aspect in his game, except pocket presence. I dont like Griffins pocket presence.
I agree with the sentiment and fully believe Cam Newton would be seen as more in the Ryan Tannehill range if he were in this draft, however Newton has more than just arm strength on RG3. Newton has elite size. Newton' speed and athleticism at his size is every bit as dangerous as RG3's speed and athleticism at his size.

RG3 will never be a real threat on the goal line. Newton is.

Griffin is a better QB than Newton. He is way further developed as an actual passer. But Newton has some scary physical tools.
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Old 03-03-2012, 03:43 PM    (permalink
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But I still think the RG3/Newton comparisons aren't fair to ... Newton (at the same stage). RG3 shows much better field vision development than Cam did at Auburn. He shows better awareness, and seems to show a decent adeptness, within the pocket, to read 1-5. RG3 is simply a much better passer than Newton coming out of college, imo. He might not have the cannon arm of Newton, but he has good arm strength.
Are you kidding me? Lets get one thing straight; I'd be afraid to think of what Newton could have done in the Big 12. Griffin looked like a much better passer because he played in a pass-happy offense in a conference that is dominated by pass-happy offenses. I think his feel for passing may be a bit more advanced than Newton's was; but his natural upside is not as high. I also think your opinion would be different had Griffin played against the Alabamas, LSUs, and Georgias of the SEC.
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Old 03-03-2012, 04:15 PM    (permalink
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Overrate or overhype?
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Old 03-03-2012, 04:43 PM    (permalink
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I'm tired of hearing/reading people say that Griffin has more upside than Luck. Not buying it. There's more to upside than being two tenths of a second faster in the 40.
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Old 03-03-2012, 05:53 PM    (permalink
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I also think your opinion would be different had Griffin played against the Alabamas, LSUs, and Georgias of the SECZZZZZZZZZZZ.
Don't worry, I fixed it for you.
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Old 03-03-2012, 05:55 PM    (permalink
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Let's see how much this matters:

A month before the end of the season, underrated RG3: 1st round pick
Season's end, "rated" RG3: 2nd overall pick
Now, overrated RG3: 2nd overall pick

???
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