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Old 01-25-2012, 04:49 PM    (permalink
j05son
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The point isn't that already established guys need a great WR or RB. The point is that the great QBs in the NFL all had talent at either WR or RB to get to where they are today.

You cite guys like Joey Harrington and Michael Vick. Those guys were drafted onto teams bereft of talent when they got there. I'm saying, they should have added at least one playmaker the year before in the draft or during free agency. That playmaker makes it easier for the QB to develop into a franchise guy that (this is where we agree) doesn't need high draft picks at WR and RB to be great, because he already is great!

For example, Roethlesberger was able to lean on guys like Hines Ward, Jerome Bettis, and Plaxico Burress in his first few seasons. Once he established himself as a franchise QB, the Steelers didn't need the big names around him anymore. Going back to my point, if he doesn't have those three guys in his first few seasons, he gets killed out there and never develops into the QB that you see today.

That's my stance on developing young QBs. You need guys to help them in their first few years. No QB is entering this offense next year and making the guys around him better. Without a WR or RB to lean on (either from the draft or free agency), he will go the way of Tim Couch before him...
and I'm disagreeing especially if it means using your top picks on low rated positions to help one position instead of addressing other areas to help the overall team. I would rather have an elite offensive line to develop my QB than an elite group of receivers (a la the Detroit Lions approach). I'm saying that WR's and RB's especially can be found outside the first round. In fact many of today's top receivers were mid round guys and undrafted guys and running backs are again, a dime a dozen. The great Jerry Rice only touched the ball a handful of times a game and he wasn't added until the niners went 18-1 coming off a Super Bowl victory. Plus young qb's typically rely on their tight ends which we happen to have a strong selection of. Lastly, Vick lead the falcons to be the first team ever to beat Green Bay in the playoffs in Lambeau as a first time starter. Falcons would have been much better off to address other areas of their team instead of over valuing offensive "play-makers" and maybe then they could have beaten Philly or have a stronger team for Matt Ryan instead of making the same mistakes mortgaging their future for a flashy WR who still can't help them put up points in the playoffs.

Even going off your own list, I would say Brady, Brees, Vick, and Cutler (why are you listing Marshall when he was drafted same year 4th round thus proving my point that there wasn't much in Denver besides a good offensive line and a system running game that anyone can succeed in which helps when you have A GOOD OFFENSIVE LINE). You list Rivers, Schaub and Rodgers but I feel all three would be fine without their "elite" wr because they are all franchise guys who were able to be taught under other franchise guys in Brees, Favre and Vick. Plus I would bet Stafford would be better without megatron but with a good offensive line instead of a **** line and an elite wr.

Would rather my young QB develop from coaching and playing behind a good line not taking shots like Stafford, Bradford, Carr and Couch and having a chance than relying on a receiver or string of failed receivers (a la Detroit).
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Old 01-25-2012, 06:35 PM    (permalink
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I agree with J05son on this. CHFF calls it their shiny hood ornament theory on the value of WRs and have a ton of analysis to back it up. And in today's game the same applies to RBs.

As to FTE's take, I think talent always shows through. A talented QB is a talented QB regardless of what's around him. Team success won't be there until everything gets better but I don't entirely agree that a bad team is a death sentence to a young guy that is a good QB. And every team has some talent on it. Losing is not only about not having good players; there's an argument to be had that winning/losing in the NFL is just as much about scheme and preparation. Which is why our OC hire is a bigger deal than it's being made out to be. So, in theory, I'm not opposed to this team trading up for a QB, but I just don't think Griffin is worthy.

What's happening to RG3 is the Cam Newton effect. The majority of draft guys last year thought Newton was a huge project and likely bust, but after rewriting the rookie records for a QB everyone now looks at the next top ranked dual threat spread guy as the next big thing. I recognize the counter argument, that another rookie spread guy also had an incredible season and that the league is trending toward the passing game with 3 guys also breaking the passing yard record, (meaning I could be way off) but I still think he's getting grossly overrated.

BUT, while I agree with J05son, the big difference in this draft is that we have 2 1st rounders. That gives us the ability to add the all important future QB by negotiating our 2nd first rounder (assuming there's one we like), by staying put or moving up, and grabbing that elite playmaker with the 4th. Having 2 picks in the first negates the positional non-value of taking a WR that high. If there were an elite DE in this draft then it would be a different story.
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Old 01-25-2012, 07:28 PM    (permalink
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and I'm disagreeing especially if it means using your top picks on low rated positions to help one position instead of addressing other areas to help the overall team. I would rather have an elite offensive line to develop my QB than an elite group of receivers (a la the Detroit Lions approach). I'm saying that WR's and RB's especially can be found outside the first round. In fact many of today's top receivers were mid round guys and undrafted guys and running backs are again, a dime a dozen. The great Jerry Rice only touched the ball a handful of times a game and he wasn't added until the niners went 18-1 coming off a Super Bowl victory. Plus young qb's typically rely on their tight ends which we happen to have a strong selection of. Lastly, Vick lead the falcons to be the first team ever to beat Green Bay in the playoffs in Lambeau as a first time starter. Falcons would have been much better off to address other areas of their team instead of over valuing offensive "play-makers" and maybe then they could have beaten Philly or have a stronger team for Matt Ryan instead of making the same mistakes mortgaging their future for a flashy WR who still can't help them put up points in the playoffs.

Even going off your own list, I would say Brady, Brees, Vick, and Cutler (why are you listing Marshall when he was drafted same year 4th round thus proving my point that there wasn't much in Denver besides a good offensive line and a system running game that anyone can succeed in which helps when you have A GOOD OFFENSIVE LINE). You list Rivers, Schaub and Rodgers but I feel all three would be fine without their "elite" wr because they are all franchise guys who were able to be taught under other franchise guys in Brees, Favre and Vick. Plus I would bet Stafford would be better without megatron but with a good offensive line instead of a **** line and an elite wr.

Would rather my young QB develop from coaching and playing behind a good line not taking shots like Stafford, Bradford, Carr and Couch and having a chance than relying on a receiver or string of failed receivers (a la Detroit).
I think we are essentially saying the same thing. I'm not saying you have to get a WR or RB necessarily, just talent in general. Those just happened to be the positions I pointed out because I feel we are weakest at those positions. Also, I don't believe the addition of talent HAS to come in the draft, just as long as it's there to help the QB, be it from free agency, trade, or the draft and be it RG, RT, WR, RB, or TE. I point out Marshall because he had the talent to help a young QB, not because of his draft position.

I also agee with Brown Leader that "a talented QB is a talented QB regardless of what's around him", however, there are plenty of talented guys that never pan out. There are plenty of guys that have as much or more talent than Rivers that never worked out for a number of reasons, but I think one of the biggest reasons that gets overlooked is who he had helping him out; LT, Gates, and a solid OL. IMO, guys that become great, like Rivers, have the right combination of talent, hard work, coaching, and support on the field to get it right; and that "perfect storm" is very rare, obviously, since there are only 10-12 "franchise" guys out of the dozen that try each year.

So, I'm sorry if it sounded like I was attacking you. And I didn't mean to say that we have to draft a WR and RB in this draft. I just think if we are going to make a run at RGIII or whoever, we need to bring in a massive haul from either free agency, the draft, or both because nobody can succeed in the situation as it currently stands.

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Old 01-25-2012, 08:35 PM    (permalink
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I think we are essentially saying the same thing. I'm not saying you have to get a WR or RB necessarily, just talent in general. Those just happened to be the positions I pointed out because I feel we are weakest at those positions. Also, I don't believe the addition of talent HAS to come in the draft, just as long as it's there to help the QB, be it from free agency, trade, or the draft and be it RG, RT, WR, RB, or TE. I point out Marshall because he had the talent to help a young QB, not because of his draft position.

I also agee with Brown Leader that "a talented QB is a talented QB regardless of what's around him", however, there are plenty of talented guys that never pan out. There are plenty of guys that have as much or more talent than Rivers that never worked out for a number of reasons, but I think one of the biggest reasons that gets overlooked is who he had helping him out; LT, Gates, and a solid OL. IMO, guys that become great, like Rivers, have the right combination of talent, hard work, coaching, and support on the field to get it right; and that "perfect storm" is very rare, obviously, since there are only 10-12 "franchise" guys out of the dozen that try each year.

So, I'm sorry if it sounded like I was attacking you. And I didn't mean to say that we have to draft a WR and RB in this draft. I just think if we are going to make a run at RGIII or whoever, we need to bring in a massive haul from either free agency, the draft, or both because nobody can succeed in the situation as it currently stands.
See, I disagree though. Rivers would be a very good to great QB no matter where he was. Aside from Gates, who's a HOF player, a different question is how good would some of that surrounding talent be if Rivers wasn't there. You're underestimating the talent of Rivers if you think there's been plenty guys just as talented or better. Tom Brady was going to be a great QB wherever he ended up. The only thing arguable is whether or not he'd be GOAT without Belichick. But very good or great to not panning out is a huge difference. If a guy didn't pan out it was because he wasn't good enough or he suffered injuries not because he wasn't in an ideal situation. If you're talking about the other skill positions then I'd tend to agree, but not at QB. It's more about having the opportunity, concerning the situation, rather than what kind of talent is around them.
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Old 01-26-2012, 08:08 AM    (permalink
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Hmm, I guess I just have a hard time believing that these guys are just so much better than everyone else. Guys with immense talent enter the league every year, so how are there only a dozen (or less) that are any good? I think some of it has to do with their situation. I do believe that some guys might just be able to overcome anything, like Brady, but he could be the GOAT, so it's tough to expect that from other guys.

When you rate them as prospects, it's not like a guy like Cutler was heads and shoulders above guys that never really turned the corner (Leinart). But put in a decent situation with time to develop, a couple of guys to bail him out now and then, etc. is important, IMO.

I guess that's why this stuff is so interesting, everybody has an opinion on how **** should be done.
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Old 02-08-2012, 08:24 PM    (permalink
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Holmgren let the cat out the bag.

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Referring to the April 26-28 NFL draft, in which the Browns own two first-round picks (Nos. 4 and 22 overall), Holmgren said, "It's a big year. It's a big draft for us."
That can only mean one thing.....Big Brock Osweiler.

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Old 02-12-2012, 04:55 PM    (permalink
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I'll tell you what, I think there's some pressure on the front office this year. We are in a pretty good situation with the amount of picks we have, where the picks are, etc. If our talent level isn't greatly improved with this draft alone, Randy should have a talk with the Walrus that's running our football operations.

Nevertheless, I'm excited for the draft this year, like Browns fans always are.
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Old 02-24-2012, 09:14 AM    (permalink
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I think we are essentially saying the same thing. I'm not saying you have to get a WR or RB necessarily, just talent in general. Those just happened to be the positions I pointed out because I feel we are weakest at those positions. Also, I don't believe the addition of talent HAS to come in the draft, just as long as it's there to help the QB, be it from free agency, trade, or the draft and be it RG, RT, WR, RB, or TE. I point out Marshall because he had the talent to help a young QB, not because of his draft position.

I also agee with Brown Leader that "a talented QB is a talented QB regardless of what's around him", however, there are plenty of talented guys that never pan out. There are plenty of guys that have as much or more talent than Rivers that never worked out for a number of reasons, but I think one of the biggest reasons that gets overlooked is who he had helping him out; LT, Gates, and a solid OL. IMO, guys that become great, like Rivers, have the right combination of talent, hard work, coaching, and support on the field to get it right; and that "perfect storm" is very rare, obviously, since there are only 10-12 "franchise" guys out of the dozen that try each year.

So, I'm sorry if it sounded like I was attacking you. And I didn't mean to say that we have to draft a WR and RB in this draft. I just think if we are going to make a run at RGIII or whoever, we need to bring in a massive haul from either free agency, the draft, or both because nobody can succeed in the situation as it currently stands.
While it is essential over time to build a team around a franchise QB, a franchise QB is still the main ingredient and makes everybody around him better.

The Leinart and Russell's didn't fail because of the talent around them, they failed because they didn't put in the hard work necessary to succeed at the next level. Leinart never saw a party he didn't like and the film room was something he avoided at all costs. Russell just didn't get the idea that you can have all the skill in the world but you need to work hard on it, in order to succeed in the NFL.

Nobody is saying the Browns don't need to upgrade their talent base but when you have an opportunity to grab a franchise QB, you grab him and fill in the spaces around him later.

I'm pretty confident that Holmgren will trade up and draft RG111 no matter what the cost is and that he will make us a contender within 3 years.
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Old 02-24-2012, 10:54 AM    (permalink
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I agree. If they don't bring in a QB prior to the draft (which I kinda hope they don't do) then they probably will and should do whatever it takes to acquire Griffin. I can't imagine them not falling in love with him in interviews and workouts. He would be a much better gamble than Flynn or Tannehill.
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Old 02-24-2012, 10:58 AM    (permalink
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As long as they get him some tools to work with, I'm all for it. But if they trade away all their picks to get him and don't make moves in FA to get a good WR and RT, I think he'll suffer a fate similar to Tim Couch and David Carr.
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Old 02-29-2012, 08:37 AM    (permalink
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Agent of Top 10 Draft Prospect Says Cleveland Browns Aren't Trying to Win
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An interesting piece of information came to light today, courtesy of Bleacher Report's own Matt Miller, who has been in Indianapolis for the Scouting Combine the past few days. He reported that in talking to the agent for a top-10 draft prospect, the agent revealed that he wouldn't want the Cleveland Browns to draft his charge in April.
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"We don't want to go to Cleveland. Man they're not trying to win there, with that quarterback (Colt McCoy) and those draft picks last year. They ain't trying to build a winner."
Amusing. Is the top 10 really even set yet? Still..IF you believe this, (it is Bleacher) who might have said it?

Justin Blackmon - Todd France
Robert Griffin - Ben Dogra
Morris Claiborne - Bus Cook
Trent Richardson - Jimmy Sexton
Ryan Tannehill - Pat Dye jr
?
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Old 02-29-2012, 08:42 AM    (permalink
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Agent of Top 10 Draft Prospect Says Cleveland Browns Aren't Trying to Win

Amusing. Is the top 10 really even set yet? Still..IF you believe this, (it is Bleacher) who might have said it?

Justin Blackmon - Todd France
Robert Griffin - Ben Dogra
Morris Claiborne - Bus Cook
Trent Richardson - Jimmy Sexton
Ryan Tannehill - Pat Dye jr
?
I'm confused by this report. First of all, which agent says things like "they ain't trying?" Second of all, what was wrong with our draft picks last year? A lot of them produced pretty well for us. Specifically the first three where on the field for a ton of plays and looked pretty decent.

I have to question either the validity of the report or the intelligence of the agent. There are reasons that I understand for not wanting to go to Cleveland, but "they ain't trying to win" isn't one of them.
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Old 02-29-2012, 06:43 PM    (permalink
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I'm not saying I believe the report but most of those agents are from and work in the south-that's just plain speak and you here it from scouts/football execs all the time. And I assume it's referring to our offense primarily and our recent picks there. This is one of those odd kind of things that's probably true, although you're always skeptical of anything on Bleacher.
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Old 03-01-2012, 08:28 AM    (permalink
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I'm not saying I believe the report but most of those agents are from and work in the south-that's just plain speak and you here it from scouts/football execs all the time. And I assume it's referring to our offense primarily and our recent picks there. This is one of those odd kind of things that's probably true, although you're always skeptical of anything on Bleacher.
Yeah, I can buy that reasoning. I just don't think it's sound or logical by any means.

I'm actually pretty optimistic about our defense. I think if Phil and Jabaal can step up their game in their 2nd year it could be a fun unit to watch.

The offense on the other hand. I just have this awful feeling of despair when I think about it... Just looking at what we have there, I feel like we'll never be any good on that side of the ball... :,(
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Old 03-01-2012, 07:50 PM    (permalink
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Hi guys. I come in peace to pose a question for you.

Do you think the Browns will pull the trigger and trade up to #2 for Griffin? I'm not asking if you think they should or should not; just if you think they will, if you think it is in their nature to make such a bold move.

Thanks in advance!
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Old 03-02-2012, 01:52 AM    (permalink
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Hi guys. I come in peace to pose a question for you.

Do you think the Browns will pull the trigger and trade up to #2 for Griffin? I'm not asking if you think they should or should not; just if you think they will, if you think it is in their nature to make such a bold move.

Thanks in advance!
If they really like him as a franchise QB and game changer, I've no doubt Heckert/Holmgren will move up and get him.
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Old 03-02-2012, 01:54 AM    (permalink
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Old 03-02-2012, 12:38 PM    (permalink
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If they really like him as a franchise QB and game changer, I've no doubt Heckert/Holmgren will move up and get him.
A 2 part question for you all... Washington makes the move up for RG3, Tannehill is taken before pick 22, and Flynn signs with Miami. What are your opinions about Osweiler in the 2nd, and how do you feel about Fletcher Cox at pick 22? I'll take your response off the post...
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Old 03-02-2012, 01:50 PM    (permalink
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A 2 part question for you all... Washington makes the move up for RG3, Tannehill is taken before pick 22, and Flynn signs with Miami. What are your opinions about Osweiler in the 2nd, and how do you feel about Fletcher Cox at pick 22? I'll take your response off the post...
I'd say, if we miss out on all the QB's, I'm not going into panic mode and taking Osweiler. I'd ride it out with Colt and make a big splash next draft. Trade whatever it takes to get Wilson or Barkley.

I would much rather make smart picks on solid players at any of WR/RB/RT/RG/WLB. I think that with with a couple of solid picks and another year of maturation of Phil Taylor, Jabaal Sheard, Joe Haden, TJ Ward, and Greg Little that this team can win 7 games even if we a forced to go with Colt.

As far as Fletcher Cox, he doesn't fit our mold of defensive linemen. My understanding of Heckert's and Dick Jauron's preference is to have both DT's be about 325-335 and utilize quick, undersized 255-265 pound DE's.

That said, Cox looks like a great player, so maybe he breaks the mold with his athleticism and size, but I doubt it.

/my $0.02
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Old 03-03-2012, 09:23 AM    (permalink
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I'm a big fan of Osweiler so of course I'd say taking him is far from panic mode. This is a pretty good QB prospect. Sure his stock is inflated due to the position, as it is every draft, but really, late first or second doesn't matter too much. It's not like he should be a mid round pick suddenly elevated to the first round-like some are implying. There's really not much to not like about this guy. Poz, what do you think about Osweiler?

Elaborating on my other answer, trading up for Griffin for what it'll be worth seems drastic unless they're just completely enamored with him. If that's the case were getting him. But personally, I doubt it. You kind of get the impression our FO is not ready to completely give up on Colt. But at the same time, they'll want to bring in some serious competition for him. Osweiler seems perfect for that.

Cox should be long gone by 22. He's like a bigger Cullen Jenkins. I think he could play a good bit at DE in a 43 but it might be strange to have him, 300lbs, at RE and Sheard, 255+lbs at LE.
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Old 03-04-2012, 01:46 PM    (permalink
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Will try this again. Lost the text earlier. Abbreviated version, which is probably better anyway. Just some thoughts on the draft and team needs.

First team needs on offense:

QB - Get rid of Seneca and use Colt as the primary backup. Flynn may end being the best option. Although I'd be interested to know what the Browns think of Brandon Weeden. He'll be old for a rookie, but could still give a good 7 years at least. I don't know enough about him yet to say he's the QB we should draft at #22 or #37, but from the little I have seen so far he seems undervalued at this point, at least by the draftniks. RG3 would be too expensive to trade up for, and I'm not high on drafting him at #4 let alone at #2. NFL Network has a crawl at the bottom of the screen reporting the Browns are not willing to give up their two 1st round picks for him. We'll see.

RB - Reports are that Hillis probably wont be back. So we'll need to pick up another RB. Hardesty should be back stronger this year than he was last season. I could not argue against taking Richardson at #4.

WR - Probably two top flight WR's are needed. A speedster that can keep defenses honest, and a big, strong WR with sure hands. Have to believe they wont take at least one offensive weapon in the 1st round.

RT and at least one starting OG - Heard that Steinbach is not doing well due to back problems. OG Cordy Glenn would be a great addition to the o-line. Should be drafted in the 1st round so unlikely we'll get him. Pinkston and Lauvao may have to fight it out for one of the starting positions. I like Pinkston a bit better.

Defensive needs:

The defensive unit finished fairly high in a couple league wide rankings, and will be even better if they can fill some obvious holes.

CB - Brown shouldn't be starting. About a month ago Tony Rizzo mentioned on his radio show that if the draft were held then, the Browns would take Claiborne at #4, according to one of his sources within the organization. Alot of things since then have been smokescreens in my opinion. Makes you wonder if they are even interested in RG3 or if they just want people to think that. If they don't take Claiborne, Janoris Jenkins might be available at #22.

S - We need better cover safeties, at least one. The player that came over from the Saints last year may end up being ok - maybe, but Ward can't cover well enough. He's more suited for playing in the box.

OLB - Kind of obvious we need an impact pass rusher from this position. I like Nick Perry out of USC, but some are projecting him as a 3-4 OLB or a 4-3 DE. Whether we'd use him at DE or OLB, if he slides to #37, it would be a definite value pick. There may be better OLB's available at #22 if they take one there.

DE - My guess is they'll target a FA DE, if not let's hope they find one in round three or later, because I don't see them selecting a DE in their first three picks.

This team may not be as far off as some would think. Childress should light a fire under the offensive player's behinds - and it's needed. Plus, if he ends calling plays rather than Shurmur, I'm confident they'll score more points than last season, which wont be hard. I look for a whole new mindset on offense with Chili around.

Time will tell, but we may start seeing a changing of the guard in the AFC in 2012, if not then definitely in 2013. The Browns are about to start taking big leaps forward in their development as a team. Although it may not be evident in their record in 2012. I'm willing to give Holmgren and Heckert another two years before judging too harshly. Shurmur on the other hand needs to show he deserves remaining HC by his performance in 2012. Not necessarily by wins and losses, I just want to see and believe he's in charge of his team and is capable of his responsibilities. I'm not so sure he is yet.

Browns will be in the playoffs in 2013, mark my words. Slight chance they'll be there in 2012.
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Old 03-05-2012, 11:44 AM    (permalink
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I'd say, if we miss out on all the QB's, I'm not going into panic mode and taking Osweiler. I'd ride it out with Colt and make a big splash next draft. Trade whatever it takes to get Wilson or Barkley.

I would much rather make smart picks on solid players at any of WR/RB/RT/RG/WLB. I think that with with a couple of solid picks and another year of maturation of Phil Taylor, Jabaal Sheard, Joe Haden, TJ Ward, and Greg Little that this team can win 7 games even if we a forced to go with Colt.

As far as Fletcher Cox, he doesn't fit our mold of defensive linemen. My understanding of Heckert's and Dick Jauron's preference is to have both DT's be about 325-335 and utilize quick, undersized 255-265 pound DE's.

That said, Cox looks like a great player, so maybe he breaks the mold with his athleticism and size, but I doubt it.

/my $0.02
I can understand sitting pat and waiting to next year, but will the franchise? Barkley and Wilson appear to be good options next year, but what happens if say Buffalo and Jacksonville fall apart next year and their QB's fall apart, pick one and two respectively... They target QB's, deciding Fitzpatrick and Gabbert are not franchise QB's... Then what?

I agree with your philosophy, of solidifying the team and building on what your have (I do like the foundation for the Browns), but without a better QB I see many 7 win type seasons for Cleveland. IMO average QB's just dont get it done, and that is what I see from Colt (fine back up IMO).

When Jauron was in Buffalo, the personnel was more -300 pounds, dont know much about Hackett. While in Buffalo, he tried the smaller Colts style players, maybe he smartened up... As for Cox I see a guy who can play end then slide inside on passing downs and rush the passer, I am sure it is just me, but I love the fit for Cleveland. If the Browns have the heavy inside mentality (which makes sense with Taylor and Rubin) and light outside on the line, then it does not make much sense, other than offering some diversity...

One quick opinion question, would you trade a first next year for Osweiler?
I appreciate the feedback!!
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Old 03-05-2012, 12:11 PM    (permalink
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I'm a big fan of Osweiler so of course I'd say taking him is far from panic mode. This is a pretty good QB prospect. Sure his stock is inflated due to the position, as it is every draft, but really, late first or second doesn't matter too much. It's not like he should be a mid round pick suddenly elevated to the first round-like some are implying. There's really not much to not like about this guy. Poz, what do you think about Osweiler?

Elaborating on my other answer, trading up for Griffin for what it'll be worth seems drastic unless they're just completely enamored with him. If that's the case were getting him. But personally, I doubt it. You kind of get the impression our FO is not ready to completely give up on Colt. But at the same time, they'll want to bring in some serious competition for him. Osweiler seems perfect for that.

Cox should be long gone by 22. He's like a bigger Cullen Jenkins. I think he could play a good bit at DE in a 43 but it might be strange to have him, 300lbs, at RE and Sheard, 255+lbs at LE.
I am on the same page as you it sounds like with Osweiler, I have him rated ahead of Gabbert in terms of recent history, and like him as a late first/early second round pick. I think if he stayed in school, he would likely be a top ten type of player in next years draft, not refined, but lots of physical skill to work with, not only size wise but athleticism (lateral type movement, not Steve Young), great arm (can make every throw), good accuracy (west coast skill set IMO, but could adapt), guy stands in the pocket (Eli Manning) and delivers more than most (still has some bad tendencies throwing off his back foot) and by all accounts I have read works hard and puts in the time needed, former Basketball player who despite a limited number of starts I thought showed consistant improvement as he played, and is a guy like Nick Perry, who I think will only get better and skills are "ascending". He does stare down his receivers too much and does not have NFL caliber manipulation skills, defenses read him too easily right now. 2-3 years from now Osweiler could be a very, very good NFL QB, needs that type of seasoning IMO. Athletic Joe Flacco with a better upside? Not as good a deep thrower, but better in the short and medium passing game.

Personally I would trade up and take Griffin myself, but I think Washington is willing to pay more (personal opinion), my thoughts then turn to Osweiler in the second as competition, and eventual replacement, because I dont see Colt getting that much better, and physically I have always had concerns. My current mock has them trading for a second rounder to take him, using their next years first... Is that too much a price to pay?

If Cox falls to 22, is the value too much to pass on? IMO yes, but thats me. I think he could play end on running downs and help out the rotation while adding depth inside, and play inside on 3rd down. I think he has those type of athletic/movement skills.

Let me run this by you and ELF if he is reading...
4- Blackmon (WR)
22- Cox (DT/DE)
37 - Osemele (G/T)
Trade with Buffalo 2013 1st and a 2012 4th
41 - Osweiler

Opinions?
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Old 03-05-2012, 01:22 PM    (permalink
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I was trying to find that 12 question draft game that STsACE posted awhile back. No luck. So I made a new one. copy/paste-answer. :0



1. If you were GM, the player you covet most for the Browns at #4, would be Michael Floyd. If you didn't trade pick #22, your first choice there would be Brock Osweiler

2. If the guy you covet most at #4 is off the board, your 2nd choice would be Trent Richardson and at #22 your second choice would be Stephen Hill

3. Who would you absolutely not want the Browns to pick at #4? Ryan Tannehill And at #22? Whitney Mercilus

4. Who do you think is the most overrated draft prospect regarded as a first rounder? Whitney Mercilus

5. Who do you think is the most underrated guy still regarded as a first round pick? Micheal Floyd

6. Which prospect will be a first round bust? Dontari Poe

7. If you had to pick one prospect, other than Andre Luck, that you see becoming a sure fire star, it would be? David DeCastro

8. Which guy not regarded as a first round pick right now do you see as becoming a future star? Stephen Hill, Brock Osweiler

9. Which projected mid to late round guy do you see as a diamond in the rough? Danny Trevathan, Trevor Guyton.

10. If you were GM, the guy you would like to sign most in free agency would be? OT Demetrius Bell And your 2nd signing would be LaRon Landry

11. If you were GM, the guy you would put on the trading block this off-season would be Colt McCoy

12. If you were GM, what's the most you'd be willing to trade to move up to #2? nothing
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Old 03-05-2012, 01:47 PM    (permalink
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I am on the same page as you it sounds like with Osweiler, I have him rated ahead of Gabbert in terms of recent history, and like him as a late first/early second round pick. I think if he stayed in school, he would likely be a top ten type of player in next years draft, not refined, but lots of physical skill to work with, not only size wise but athleticism (lateral type movement, not Steve Young), great arm (can make every throw), good accuracy (west coast skill set IMO, but could adapt), guy stands in the pocket (Eli Manning) and delivers more than most (still has some bad tendencies throwing off his back foot) and by all accounts I have read works hard and puts in the time needed, former Basketball player who despite a limited number of starts I thought showed consistant improvement as he played, and is a guy like Nick Perry, who I think will only get better and skills are "ascending". He does stare down his receivers too much and does not have NFL caliber manipulation skills, defenses read him too easily right now. 2-3 years from now Osweiler could be a very, very good NFL QB, needs that type of seasoning IMO. Athletic Joe Flacco with a better upside? Not as good a deep thrower, but better in the short and medium passing game.

Personally I would trade up and take Griffin myself, but I think Washington is willing to pay more (personal opinion), my thoughts then turn to Osweiler in the second as competition, and eventual replacement, because I dont see Colt getting that much better, and physically I have always had concerns. My current mock has them trading for a second rounder to take him, using their next years first... Is that too much a price to pay?

If Cox falls to 22, is the value too much to pass on? IMO yes, but thats me. I think he could play end on running downs and help out the rotation while adding depth inside, and play inside on 3rd down. I think he has those type of athletic/movement skills.

Let me run this by you and ELF if he is reading...
4- Blackmon (WR)
22- Cox (DT/DE)
37 - Osemele (G/T)
Trade with Buffalo 2013 1st and a 2012 4th
41 - Osweiler

Opinions?
Well....I doubt FTE would approve. :) I wouldn't be upset at all if it went the way you've proposed, but.... I think we could find a decent Olineman in the 3rd or 4th rather than stick to Osemele over a QB. I'm not sure how great the need is at OT-OG that at #37, we wouldn't just take the QB right there. Guys like Tony Bergstrom-Jeff Allen-Lucas Nix-Marcel Jones-Bobby Massie(you prompted me to look twice at him) all are pretty good options imo later.

Osemele I think could play RT but I'd feel much more comfortable with him inside, and even then, I think he'd take a minute or two to get comfortable with playing at the pro level. He's reminding me a little too much of Anthony Davis, who I liked a lot coming out, but now is struggling mightily.

Plus I'm convinced Osweiler is going to be a first round pick. Pretty much hangs on how everyone rates his pro day though and then private workouts. But early reports are that he interviewed well at the combine.

Cox is a guy I like a lot, and I agree, if by some way he's still on the board, the value is too great and we would have to take him. Unless...we feel Osweiler or another QB we like-assuming we don't get one at #4-won't be there in the 2nd round. Rumors are that Denver was impressed with Osweiler's interview in Indy.
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