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Old 03-03-2012, 02:59 PM    (permalink
Timbathia
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I think those are both pretty good guesses. Even with the new rookie contracts, the positional value will still discourage teams from taking interior OL or SS early. Barron fits the description well (tough, smart, team leader, good tackler) but as njx said, can we justify burning yet another early pick on a safety?
if the brass dont think the safetys we currently have are good enough, then we have to bring in another one. The previous picks are gone so really it is irrelevant how many we have used recently on that positiom. Looking at the roster now, if a special safety was available we could use them.
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Old 03-03-2012, 08:28 PM    (permalink
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see, but that's my problem with it. do we really have any idea what we have? half of them have played one year, a couple have played 2 years. is that enough to get a read, and to basically give up on them? is barron good enough that it doesn't matter what we have?
I dont know the answer to any of those questions. Hopefully EFX does, but my point remains that IF Barron is considered a significant upgrade then we shouldnt avoid him just because we have taken a heap of safetys in the last few drafts.

At this stage ALL of the recent ones we have taken look like special teamers. I dont see them at practice or know what they were supposed to be doing each play. I really havent seen anywhere near enough to know if any of them can make the jump to quality starter level.
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Old 03-03-2012, 08:33 PM    (permalink
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i assume we're talking about michael bush? meh. why? he fits no role (see: mcgahee).
Willis had 250 out of 550 carries last year and got nicked up a lot. Even if he stays that healthy next season, which is best case scenario, there is still 200 carries for Bush and a hundred for a third down or speed back.

He isnt worth breaking the bank for, unless Willis couldnt go, but I think he would be very useful.
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Old 03-04-2012, 11:02 AM    (permalink
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Willis had 250 out of 550 carries last year and got nicked up a lot. Even if he stays that healthy next season, which is best case scenario, there is still 200 carries for Bush and a hundred for a third down or speed back.

He isnt worth breaking the bank for, unless Willis couldnt go, but I think he would be very useful.
If we are looking to replace McGahee, then definitely bring Bush in. But having both on the roster seems like a lot of the same. I'd rather see a fast guy in the 2nd RB spot, with the 3rd RB being well-rounded enough to spell either spot.

Anyway, I'm almost certain we'll end up with a RB in the draft. Whether they are the complement to McGahee or his eventual successor remains to be seen.
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Old 03-08-2012, 10:23 AM    (permalink
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So I've seem three sources (Lombardi, Schefter, Freeman) say that Denver is one of the main players in the Manning hunt.

Does Elway remember how a powerful run game gave him two Championships at the end of his career? I think he does. I can actually see this working if they play their cards right. For example, on offense add:

Manning / Wayne / FA TE / Draft RB / Draft OL

That would leave the majority of draft picks to build the defense.

Whether or not we keep Tebow is a bit of a zero sum equation, because if they trade him you know they'll just draft another QB to groom behind Manning.

Of course, everything depends on a clean bill of health for Manning and a committment to protecting him with a solid OL / potent run game.
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Old 03-08-2012, 10:30 AM    (permalink
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Just posted in another thread, so plz excuse the lazy quote:

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As for Denver . . .

If Peyton (via his daddy ) didn't want to be on the same team as Andrew Luck, what makes any of you think it's even remotely possible he would join the Tebow circus?

The only way he goes to Denver is if Tebow is shipped somewhere else.
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Old 03-08-2012, 10:37 AM    (permalink
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I agree there's a difference but think the pressure is all on Peyton, regardless. Having a big name "backup" has to be a concern for a guy his age w/potential arm strength concerns. Basically, I think he ends up looking over his shoulder with Tebow, too, and that just isn't happening. He'll have too many options available to choose a situation like that over Arizona or Seattle, where the QB options have proven they can't win.
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Old 03-08-2012, 10:50 AM    (permalink
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Vic Lombari touched on this in his report on the Manning situation.

http://denver.cbslocal.com/video/682...ed-in-manning/

I tend to agree with him that Tebow would be traded in this situation:

1. Tebow's value is relatively high after our playoff run

2. Tebow was never Elway's guy, so this provides a good excuse to move him

3. Peyton won't want Tebow looking over his shoulder

Bascially, the team gets the kind of passing attack they want (Peyton does the P/A as well as anyone) while resolving the internal dilemma re: Tebow. I can see that being a very appealing solution.
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Old 03-08-2012, 02:39 PM    (permalink
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Vic Lombari touched on this in his report on the Manning situation.

http://denver.cbslocal.com/video/682...ed-in-manning/

I tend to agree with him that Tebow would be traded in this situation:

1. Tebow's value is relatively high after our playoff run

2. Tebow was never Elway's guy, so this provides a good excuse to move him

3. Peyton won't want Tebow looking over his shoulder

Bascially, the team gets the kind of passing attack they want (Peyton does the P/A as well as anyone) while resolving the internal dilemma re: Tebow. I can see that being a very appealing solution.
It would be somewhat of a cleansing feeling, at least in my opinion, if this were to unfold.

By no means is Manning "the future" of any franchise. He has 4 years left in his tank. I still think that he will elevate relatively any team he signs with into Superbowl contenders.

As much as I want to see him succeed, my humble opinion is that Tebow will not be an effective NFL quarterback from this point on. I am in the minority, but I am led to believe the EFX troop is on my side.

There are a few reasons why I think Peyton could end up in Denver:

1. Many of his other destinations have negatives attached to them
Washington
- This would involve playing against his brother 2 times a year. He reportedly wants to avoid this if possible. He also would like to stay in the AFC.

Quote:
“A couple of different sources inside the organization have told me that Manning’s camp made it pretty clear to Redskins officials he doesn’t want to come here,” Russell said Thursday on SportsCenter (via ProFootball.com). "… There’s lots of reasons for that. His brother Eli, the colder weather, the whole situation down in Miami and so on and so forth. But unless that changes -- and I’m taking my sources at their word -- I don’t think Manning’s coming here to D.C.”
Read into that, and it's clear that Peyton isn't a fan of cold weather. So maybe Denver isn't the place he ends up, or Washington. Maybe Miami is the spot.
2. Miami
There's also the chance that he doesn't want to go up against Tom Brady 2 times a year, but that does not seem to be as strong of a deterrent as playing his brother. It depends on how much another ring matters to the guy.

All in all, I have no objections to signing Peyton Manning if he somehow ends up here. We should eat his enormous salary for 2-3 years. He's proven what he can turn a ****** club into. We'd have a legitimate chance to get to the super bowl, and we'd improve our odds twofold to win the division, regardless of our other shortcomings.

I'm a firm believer that a solid QB is, by far, the best way to win a division.

2. Tebow is in no way, shape or form, an obstacle to Manning getting here.
Elway doesn't want him, let's not fool ourselves with a single quote.

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Old 03-08-2012, 02:47 PM    (permalink
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I encourage you all to check out my latest four round mock :)

http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51453
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Old 03-08-2012, 02:54 PM    (permalink
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I encourage you all to check out my latest four round mock :)

http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51453
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Originally Posted by Sloopy
25. Denver Broncos – Michael Brockers DT LSU: The Tebow era is in full swing in Denver. Since Elway won’t be able to convince anyone of drafting a QB (especially this late) he will go BPA at a position of need to try and improve the overall talent level of the team. Brockers will be an impact player on the interior of that DL and add another element to that already mean defense.

25. Denver Broncos – LaMichael James RB Oregon: There may be no better fit in this draft than James to the Broncos. Certainly will add another wrinkle to this unorthodox offense.

Denver Broncos – Leonard Johnson CB Iowa State: Hurst himself a bit in the combine but I think he will be a steal here and it would be nice to get some promising youth into that secondary

25. Denver Broncos – Donte Paige-Moss DE North Carolina: This Tarheel comes with some baggage and this might be a bit early for him as a selection but was once considered a first rounder and might be worth the risk at this point in the draft.
You're going to make NJX happy, I can tell you that.

I'm not a huge LMJ fan, don't think he'd be the BRA before the mid 3rd. I'd rather see someone with a little more meat on their bones, a typical Fox/Studesville back. I don't see how we don't pull the trigger on Lamar Miller or Doug Martin in late round 2, though. I almost want to say that you forgot about Miller in your draft and slipped him in a little late. Not to say that I particularly love him.

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Old 03-08-2012, 03:01 PM    (permalink
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There are a few reasons why I think Peyton could end up in Denver:

1. Many of his other destinations have negatives attached to them
Apparently, Washington is out. The brother-vs-brother thing appears to hold significant weight.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...-the-redskins/

Quote:
Russell appeared on SportsCenter Thursday and, citing multiple sources, reported that Manning doesn’t want to play in the nation’s capital and has already informed the team.
Looks like Miami and Denver in the lead right now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy
2. Tebow is in no way, shape or form, an obstacle to Manning getting here.
Elway doesn't want him, let's not fool ourselves with a single quote.
Agreed. As I said earlier, it actually solves the Tebow problem for the team.

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I encourage you all to check out my latest four round mock :)

http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51453
Nice work. I'll post comments in the thread.
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Old 03-08-2012, 03:01 PM    (permalink
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i don't buy lamar miller as being all that good.

regarding peyton, i don't want a 38 year old, broken qb if it precludes in any way whatsoever, us drafting one next year.
As someone who has previously compared Lamar to Tatum, neither do I. But I still recognize that most people think he has enormous potential. I think round 3 is about a round too late.

Peyton Manning- I think drafting a 36 year old, broken (but soon to be cleared) QB (who probably still has it) is a great move, and would improve our chances of drafting a young QB

1. It improves the likelihood that we get rid of TT enormous (this ties into #4)
2. It reduces the need for a veteran QB
3. It makes drafting a young QB so much more logical and appealing - throwing a quarterback better than Jim Sorgi under the arms of one of the best film hawks ever can only help.
4. Your starting QB is 36 years old. You have to consider the future soon.

Edit: Added bonus, we get rid of all the Gainesville Transplants

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Old 03-08-2012, 04:16 PM    (permalink
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the only other reason i'm scared of picking up peyton is because i think his play-calling has been terrible over the last few years. if he's willing to play in a more run-dominant offense, then i have less reservations in that regard.
If I was Elway, I'd be selling Peyton on the same thing that worked at the end of Elway's career - go heavy on the run game to soften up the defense and take pressure off Peyton, then take some shots downfield. I think this is the offense Fox wants to run anyway.
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Old 03-08-2012, 04:21 PM    (permalink
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If I was Elway, I'd be selling Peyton on the same thing that worked at the end of Elway's career - go heavy on the run game to soften up the defense and take pressure off Peyton, then take some shots downfield. I think this is the offense Fox wants to run anyway.
Who would be our TD?

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the only other reason i'm scared of picking up peyton is because i think his play-calling has been terrible over the last few years. if he's willing to play in a more run-dominant offense, then i have less reservations in that regard.
back to the TD thing... we get into the issue of a run heavy scheme without a future back.

would you be ok with moreno getting 10 carries a game and mcgahee 15? i say **** that. moreno is a #3 back at best from the standpoint that the nfl is now a 2 back league and you don't want him touching the ball.

Do you prefer someone other than lamichael if we take peyton? like an edgerrin/td type back who can do a little of everything? *cough*turbin*cough
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Old 03-08-2012, 05:40 PM    (permalink
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either way, moreno should've been released 3 weeks ago.
What I'm about to say is almost the quivalent of saying that we should extend BQ's contract to 2 years 2 million.

you can almost make the case that Knowshon is worth his 2012 salary numbers
Base salary of 855k, 832k signing bonus, totaling 1.687 mil against the cap in '12.

that's almost reasonable for a 3rd string running back. As far as what he deserves, though, he should have been cut 3 weeks ago.

also, let's just all take some time to laugh-


Quote:
could you imagine ponying up the money to pay him without an injury clause...shipping out Tebow and then watching Manning go down in Week 5??

could set the franchise back 5 years or so? scary thought
associating setting a franchise back 5 years and getting rid of tebow

not to say i'm not rooting for him.
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Old 03-08-2012, 05:52 PM    (permalink
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If Manning turns up in Denver and plays well, then I will be happy very quickly.

That being said, it feels all wrong to think about Manning and potentially Reggie Wayne turning up here. We spent several years trying to put together a defense specifically to STOP these guys (obviously we failed miserably). I have never been overly fond of legends moving franchise and to be honest would rather it didnt happen here.
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Old 03-08-2012, 05:53 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
i have to imagine the mane is in a frenzy over losing tebow.

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so Manning plays defense now too?



GB put up 49 on us.
DET put up 45 on us.
MIN put up 32 on us.
NE put up 41 and 45 on us.
BUF put up 40 on us.

we need help on defense. spending money on Manning and satisfying his additional offensive requirements would set this franchise back at least 5 or 6 years.
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Why do people think it is logical to kick Tebow to the curb or trade him for Manning when the Colts themselves aren't doing that either... and Manning gave them his whole career...

And regardless of the hype... Andrew Luck is far far less proven than Tebow... the only reason Luck is so hyped is because he hasn't had the opportunity to get exposed that Tebow faced all through college and in the NFL.

Yet people act as if you would be nuts to let Manning go and play Tebow instead.. the Colts are doing that with Luck...
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Gabbert is the Prototype. He's a hell of a lot closer to what Elway has hinted he's looking for than Tebow.

Sign Manning, trade for Gabbert to study him?
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How about Tim for Gabbert and and a pick/picks. We let Gabbert sit behind Manning for a few years and see what he can do. Or maybe draft a QB in the third.

Either way I don't see this happening.
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Old 03-08-2012, 07:54 PM    (permalink
Sloopy
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You're going to make NJX happy, I can tell you that.

I'm not a huge LMJ fan, don't think he'd be the BRA before the mid 3rd. I'd rather see someone with a little more meat on their bones, a typical Fox/Studesville back. I don't see how we don't pull the trigger on Lamar Miller or Doug Martin in late round 2, though. I almost want to say that you forgot about Miller in your draft and slipped him in a little late. Not to say that I particularly love him.
I definitely didn't forget him (Forgot Reuben though)

As I explained in my mock:

I have Miller as the #4 RB on my board but he went as the 5th off the board because I really do like LaMichael James to you guys.

Add in the fact that I personally don't really value the RB position early in the draft (With few exceptions) and I think he falls pretty far on draft day.
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Miller is visual sex on the field.
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Old 03-08-2012, 10:44 PM    (permalink
Diehard
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gabbert?

this is the problem with team-specific forums.
The Mane is particularly bad. Too much douchebaggery, posturing and pettiness. There are some sharp football guys there (Khan, EddieMac) but their posts get drowned in the morass of crap.

Jimmy, I notice you've taken another shot at raising the quality of football discussion there. Just avoid getting baited and drawn into the ****... remember that's the craft they've been honing over there at the expense of actual football talk.
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Old 03-09-2012, 06:15 AM    (permalink
Jimmy
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The Mane is particularly bad. Too much douchebaggery, posturing and pettiness. There are some sharp football guys there (Khan, EddieMac) but their posts get drowned in the morass of crap.

Jimmy, I notice you've taken another shot at raising the quality of football discussion there. Just avoid getting baited and drawn into the ****... remember that's the craft they've been honing over there at the expense of actual football talk.
It's my charity work. Managed to go a whole two weeks without having a colossal blow-up and, remarkably, some people actually aren't so bad. Unless Tebow goes, there is no way I last past the off-season, though. I'll probably snap at jhns or somebody with equal lack of brain tissue.

Also, thoughts on Peyton "Covert-Ops" Hillis rejoining the team? I have my opinions, I'll just save them for later.

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Old 03-09-2012, 11:47 AM    (permalink
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I don't see Hillis coming back. He left under a dark cloud and his actions in Cleveland didn't exactly paint him as a team-first kind of guy.

I think drafting a RB somewhere in rounds 2-5 is probably going to give you a lot more bang for your buck. Maybe look at someone like Vick Ballard to give you that more physical running style.

We've also still got Mario Fannin who looked pretty decent in TC last year before he got injured.
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Old 03-09-2012, 04:41 PM    (permalink
Diehard
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Thumbs down DJ and McBean suspended

http://twitter.com/#!/VicLombardi/st...47731926679552

Six games each for violating the substance abuse policy.

EDIT: Virgil Green got 4 as well

Some roster trimming is being done for us, it seems. Not necessarily a bad thing.

Last edited by Diehard : 03-09-2012 at 04:51 PM.
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Old 03-09-2012, 04:44 PM    (permalink
Jimmy
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http://twitter.com/#!/VicLombardi/st...47731926679552

Six games each for violating the substance abuse policy.
They're suing, I hope it is overturned.
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Old 03-09-2012, 04:55 PM    (permalink
Diehard
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Diehard is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Diehard is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Diehard is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Diehard is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Diehard is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Diehard is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Diehard is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Diehard is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Diehard is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Diehard is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Diehard is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
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meh, nothing of value was lost.
True:

* DJ was already on thin ice and has Woodyard waiting to take his spot

* McBean was a FA anyway

* Green going gives us an open TE slot to bring in Dallas Clark... ;)
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