New England Patriots Discussion

[Don Vito]

I hear you loud and clear. I have just removed the idea of Mario Williams as a Patriot out of my head so I'm not disappointed when he goes somewhere else. There probably isn't a player I have ever wanted us to sign more than Williams, and that is why I am not getting my hopes up.

[Razor]

Haha I feel your pain. I just can't neglect the fact that a beastly pass rusher is available in FA and we actually have the money to pay him.

[BradysKnee]

Originally Posted by Don Vito

I hear you loud and clear. I have just removed the idea of Mario Williams as a Patriot out of my head so I'm not disappointed when he goes somewhere else. There probably isn't a player I have ever wanted us to sign more than Williams, and that is why I am not getting my hopes up.

Which is why it'll happen. BB does the opposite of what fans think he will do. Yeah lets take Kindle!! PASSRUSH! --Nope.

none of us think he'll sign a big name pass rusher now so its bound to happen. Williams or Wimbley.

[Razor]

I just made a mistake.. I just watched the season opening for the Texans against the Colts to take a closer look at Mario. Now I really want him. I'm never going to get over this...

[Razor]

The Colts cut Clark. Count me one of those interested in procuring his services.

[Vaylor]

Originally Posted by Razor

The Colts cut Clark. Count me one of those interested in procuring his services.

Why? This team needs more of a Dan Gronk/Alge Crumpler type of TE. At this stage of his career Clark is just a lesser Hernandez.

[descendency]

The Jets just gave Sanchez a 5 year 58.3 million dollar deal.

Division locked up for another half decade!

[Matthew Jones]

Originally Posted by Don Vito

I hear you loud and clear. I have just removed the idea of Mario Williams as a Patriot out of my head so I'm not disappointed when he goes somewhere else. There probably isn't a player I have ever wanted us to sign more than Williams, and that is why I am not getting my hopes up.

Believe it or not I'd rather pass on Mario. Williams had his way with Dallas Clark last season but the Texans' defense actually improved substantially without Mario. Which other elite players can you say that about?

[Razor]

Originally Posted by Matthew Jones

Believe it or not I'd rather pass on Mario. Williams had his way with Dallas Clark last season but the Texans' defense actually improved substantially without Mario. Which other elite players can you say that about?

That's a BS argument. That's like the people saying that because the Patriots won 11 games with Matt Cassell in 2008 Tom Brady is overrated. They progressed as a defense because they switched to a 3-4 with no off season to implement it. Of course they'll improve as the season goes on.

[Matthew Jones]

Originally Posted by Razor

That's a BS argument. That's like the people saying that because the Patriots won 11 games with Matt Cassell in 2008 Tom Brady is overrated. They progressed as a defense because they switched to a 3-4 with no off season to implement it. Of course they'll improve as the season goes on.

That's a fair point, but the Texans aren't exactly falling all over themselves to re-sign Williams. They were forced to choose between Arian Foster and Mario Williams when applying the franchise tag, and chose Foster even though they have another excellent back in Ben Tate. Pass rusher is also considered one of the most important positions in the NFL, while running back is one of the least valuable as of late. I wouldn't mind signing Williams to a six-year, $60 million deal or something like that, but a top pass rusher generally gets paid about $12 million per and Williams will likely be looking for even more than that. I would be incredibly excited to land Mario in any case, but it's not the strategy I'd personally adopt.

[Razor]

Originally Posted by Matthew Jones

That's a fair point, but the Texans aren't exactly falling all over themselves to re-sign Williams. They were forced to choose between Arian Foster and Mario Williams when applying the franchise tag, and chose Foster even though they have another excellent back in Ben Tate. Pass rusher is also considered one of the most important positions in the NFL, while running back is one of the least valuable as of late. I wouldn't mind signing Williams to a six-year, $60 million deal or something like that, but a top pass rusher generally gets paid about $12 million per and Williams will likely be looking for even more than that. I would be incredibly excited to land Mario in any case, but it's not the strategy I'd personally adopt.

That's all true, but the Texans also have two very good OLBs besides Mario Williams and a dominant DE in Watt. Their front seven is one of the best in the league even without Williams. So I can see why they decided to keep Foster who's arguably one of the premier backs in the league since he's the cheaper option and the Texans don't have a lot of cap room. I do believe that their decision to keep Foster over Williams has more to do with the financial details than their play on the field. I'm sure Williams wants to test the market and see what he can get and wouldn't be happy with the franchise tag. Personally I think that Williams is going to command some $15 mil. per year with a huge portion of that guaranteed. The Texans can't afford that. I wouldn't be thrilled to shell out that much money to a player other than the franchise QB, but Williams has the talent, the ability, the versatility and the mental makeup that makes me want to make the move for him. I'm sick and tired of stop gap solutions. If we get Mario Williams and find a talented, athletic DL to play next to Wilfork we can get by with having a JAG (Cunningham) at LDE. We can even play 3-4 with Williams since he looked very fluid at OLB. I just like the idea of being able to dictate what an offense does as opposed to being bitchslapped by mediocre offenses. Call me desperate, but I believe the same thing that I've believed for the past two off seasons: We're a dominant pass rusher away from being elite. Williams is a dominant pass rusher, go get him and let the rest work itself out.

[Matthew Jones]

Despite all of the hype surrounding Williams as a linebacker last year, he wasn't exactly versatile considering he lined up in either a two or three-point stance and rushed the passer on every play; it's not like he's dropping into coverage. The argument that Williams is a linebacker is like the pre-draft talk last year that Justin Houston already had experience playing outside linebacker. There are a number of quality pass rushers in the draft this year relative to most years so I'd prefer to diversify the personnel groupings and build as much depth as possible this offseason rather than limiting the team to a few high-priced stars and then a bunch of lower-level contracts like the Colts did in the past with Manning, Wayne, Freeney, etc. Matt Roth and Manny Lawson would be an exciting free agency haul as far as the linebackers go; Roth is a very intelligent, tough player with great bulk who has played for Mangini, Rob Ryan, etc. while Lawson would be great in coverage and could play SLB in the 4-3 as well. In the draft the team would have the flexibility to draft a rusher like Upshaw or Perry if they had the opportunity to but could afford to wait and take the best player available regardless of position.

[TNPatsFan]

"We're a dominant pass rusher away from being elite. Williams is a dominant pass rusher, go get him and let the rest work itself out."

I like Mario too but I don't think spending all that money on one player would be a wise move. I also don't really think of him as an OLB even though that's what Houston called him last year. He's a DE all the way in my opinion.

I disagree with the idea that the Pats are one player away. Their secondary was a shambles last year and needs an overhaul, they had Tracy White starting at LB in the playoffs plus guys like Jeff Tarpinian and Niko K playing a lot on D, they need a center and probably a couple WR's, no backup for Vince, it's unknown if Anderson and Carter will be back, and the rest of the DL's are try-hard UDFA's and late round picks that could stand an upgrade. One player isn't going to cover all that.

[devinhester=R.O.Y 2006]

So I shouldnt go buy my Mario Williams Patriot jersey? :(

[Matthew Jones]

Originally Posted by devinhester=R.O.Y 2006

So I shouldnt go buy my Mario Williams Patriot jersey? :(

No, but you should be safe to buy your Brandon Lloyd Patriots jersey!

[devinhester=R.O.Y 2006]

Originally Posted by Matthew Jones

No, but you should be safe to buy your Brandon Lloyd Patriots jersey!

Never really been a fan of his...I have seen a bunch of him from his time at Illinois and with the Bears. I think I'll just go buy another hoody and cut the sleeves off.

[Razor]

Originally Posted by devinhester=R.O.Y 2006

So I shouldnt go buy my Mario Williams Patriot jersey? :(

Do it! Believe it and it will happen!

[Jvig43]

I'd rather have Wallace.

[devinhester=R.O.Y 2006]

Originally Posted by Jvig43

I'd rather have Wallace.

How would you guys feel about Robert Meachem?

[nepg]

Originally Posted by devinhester=R.O.Y 2006

How would you guys feel about Robert Meachem?

Possibly better than Wallace. Huge target that gets downfield.

[Vaylor]

I would rather have Lloyd.

[Matthew Jones]

Wallace > Lloyd > Meachem

I'd be happy with any of them though.

[Razor]

Originally Posted by Matthew Jones

Wallace > Lloyd > Meachem

I'd be happy with any of them though.

Just because of the age factoring in I'd say

Wallace >> Meachem > Lloyd

[Razor]

BTW....

[Vaylor]

I hope he fails spectacularly.