San Francisco 49ers Discussion

[Shupp]

Originally Posted by YAYareaRB

late round pick.. division 1-aa player. believe it or not, you dont have to be picked in the 1st or 2nd round to be a good player. your chances at playing dont die at the draft if you're not chosen on day 1. especially at offensive line

didn't sniff the field. its called development. aaron rodgers didn't see playing time for 3 seasons and nobody closed the book on him. what do you think? people just get drafted and if they dont go high, they dont play? they dont get a chance to the develope their game? why even have a 7 round draft? why not have 1 round every year?

anthony davis was thrown in the fire from day 1 and got his ass whooped for most of the season. is that what you wanna see from kilgore? instead of a years worth of development before he touches the field? and you call me naive?

Ahh, so you're saying that you are excited that a player who was not even ready to be a 2nd string guard last year is set to start this year. Yup, I changed my mind. The idea of Kilgore starting has me excited now. I guess that year of sitting on the bench made him a totally different player. And don't make yourself look like a fool by comparing a guard to a QB. If this guy really showed that much talent in practice he would have at least supplanted someone for a 2nd string spot. Good lord we are talking about a guard here, the blocking assignments are not brain surgery. Even undrafted rookies are routinely able to secure 2nd string jobs.

[YAYareaRB]

i wasn't comparing guards to qbs i was comparing the fact that he sat the first 3 years of his career and now hes a top 3 qb in the league with a superbowl ring.

a years worth of sitting and learning the offense and the position means a lot. i agree it would take a lot longer to develope a qb than a guard.. that is why people think he is ready. he sat and developed for a whole season AND off-season or as you put it "sitting on the bench".

what do you make of the list of the late round undrafted pro bowl offensive lineman in the my last post?

jahri evans OG round 4
carl nicks OG round 5
jason peters OT undrafted
shaun o'hara OG undrafted
tyson clabo OT undrafted
donald penn OT undrafted
brian waters OG undrafted
kris dielman OG undrafted
jeff saturday C undrafted

[phlysac]

I have no problem with a fan bitching about the situation/development of a certain player. I just wish they would come to the table with their thoughts of improving the situation instead of just perpetuating the negative opinion.


What would you like done at G?

[YAYareaRB]

have you ever heard of projects? thats exactly what daniel kilgore was expected to be when got drafted, a project. not a guy who can come in and start but a guy who needed to sit and learn for a season or two and come in and provide solid minutes.

iupati even struggled because he didn't have the adequate "sit and learn" time. and we all know anthony davis' struggles.

[YAYareaRB]

Originally Posted by phlysac

I have no problem with a fan bitching about the situation/development of a certain player. I just wish they would come to the table with their thoughts of improving the situation instead of just perpetuating the negative opinion.


What would you like done at G?

exactly. came in here looking down on us because we get excited for one our own players. ******* high and mighty like he knows something harbaugh doesn't

[Shupp]

Originally Posted by phlysac

I have no problem with a fan bitching about the situation/development of a certain player. I just wish they would come to the table with their thoughts of improving the situation instead of just perpetuating the negative opinion.


What would you like done at G?

I'm not trying to be negative but for people to be "excited", or think the prospect of him starting is "sexy" seems crazy to me. I know that it's a possibility for him to be or become a good player and it would be a terrific bonus if that turns out to be the case but I would be pretty nervous if he opened the season as our starter.

Where else on our roster do we plan on starting a 5th round pick who hasn't played yet? I think we have a tendency to fall in love with our OL draft picks before they have done anything. I think back to when we drafted Rachal and many were plugging him into the pro bowl before he saw a snap. I don't see that kind of unbridled optimism at any other position.

We have been bringing in veteran guards every week so I'm sure we will end up signing one for close to the league minimum so we at least have an option at RG. Call me crazy but out of the guards left on the market, Rachal might not be a bad option but I doubt he'd come back. I think it's critical we sign someone before the draft so we can be free to pick the BPA.

[Menardo75]

Originally Posted by Shupp

I'm not trying to be negative but for people to be "excited", or think the prospect of him starting is "sexy" seems crazy to me. I know that it's a possibility for him to be or become a good player and it would be a terrific bonus if that turns out to be the case but I would be pretty nervous if he opened the season as our starter.

Where else on our roster do we plan on starting a 5th round pick who hasn't played yet? I think we have a tendency to fall in love with our OL draft picks before they have done anything. I think back to when we drafted Rachal and many were plugging him into the pro bowl before he saw a snap. I don't see that kind of unbridled optimism at any other position.

We have been bringing in veteran guards every week so I'm sure we will end up signing one for close to the league minimum so we at least have an option at RG. Call me crazy but out of the guards left on the market, Rachal might not be a bad option but I doubt he'd come back. I think it's critical we sign someone before the draft so we can be free to pick the BPA.

Everyone was high on Rachal because the limited time he saw as a rookie he was a beast. Obviously that didn't translate what so ever. I still don't see why you are so butt hurt about everyone being excited to see what the Niners have in Kilgore. Nobody said he's going to be a pro bowler. It's always exciting to see guys your team picked late in the draft play and see what they can do.

[Madirishman]

Rachal had the physical skills, though raw, to be a great NFL Guard and likely would have been a first round pick had he stayed at USC another year. It was well-documented that he came out a little early as he wanted to make $ to support his mother, which he did, but he seemingly cared more about the initial cash than earning a second bigger contract. He has talent but lacked maturity and a driving motivation and his focus and play suffered from it. He may go somewhere else and end up maturing and making an impact, salvaging his career. Or he may be completely out of the league in the next year or two as well. That's how it goes in the NFL.

[WhatWouldBillyBajemaDo?]

Originally Posted by phlysac

It would cost far, far too much to get DeCastro but...

What are people's thoughts on dealing next year's 1st for a really high 2nd?

Sacrifice next years 1st rd for 3 of the top 60 this season?

I like the idea, who would you target if you jumped back into round 2? I would also imagine that the Pats pick at #31 is there for the taking. Offer a similar package to what the Saints offered to leap back into round 1 last year (Future 1st+Pick #61). Would put SF in position to come away with Hill or Fleener and Konz or Zeitler.

[phlysac]

Originally Posted by WhatWouldBillyBajemaDo?

I like the idea, who would you target if you jumped back into round 2? I would also imagine that the Pats pick at #31 is there for the taking. Offer a similar package to what the Saints offered to leap back into round 1 last year (Future 1st+Pick #61). Would put SF in position to come away with Hill or Fleener and Konz or Zeitler.

A ton of similarly graded players between 20-40. If Baalke targets a couple that are still on the board at 30 he may want to trade down, but finding a partner can be difficult. Make a pick at #30 and then find someone to move out of their pick all together.

[VAfy-ya]

Originally Posted by Shupp

I guess everybody is drinking the Kilgore gatorade? lol

If you watched him play during pre-season last year, you would understand. Just like Dobbs on the defensive side, they both were unsung rookies who literally had only four weeks of NFL experience, yet flashed solid play in those four games. The book on Kilgore was obvious. Coming from a small school, going against inferior comp, he needed to bulk up some and learn the pro game. But that doesn't mean the he lacked skills/ability or was some bum because he couldn't overtake Rachal, who despite his flaws is a dominate run-blocker, and Synder who is a savy vet who has experience and helped steady the right side in pass-pro with Davis. Sometimes its as simple as a guy just not being ready. But not being ready is not the same as not having ability. Alot of us are excited because Kilgore has displayed ability.....against 2nd and 3rd stringers in games that dont count, but you have to start somewhere. The question: Is he ready to be a starter?

[Rabscuttle]

If the staff doesn't feel Kilgore is ready to step in I'm pretty sure they will inform Baalke that an upgrade is needed and the situation will be dealt with. Signing a warm body that isn't an upgrade doesn't really do anything at this point as there is the draft and cuts coming over the next couple of months.

Glenn is a draft option that could be considered without having to move up as far as it would take to get DeCastro and he has the upside to possibly play either tackle position down the road with some development. Perhaps Glenn may not require a trade up all, but I doubt he is available very far into the second round if he does make it that far.

I would still prefer a receiver in the first or a high upside d-line prospect to develop. (Two starters in their thirties and another with hamstring issues makes this a situation that should be addressed proactively. Replacing the production of an all-pro is not an easy accomplishment and their will be a huge drop off with a rookie that hasn't had time to develop.)

[thediggler3030]

Originally Posted by Shupp

I'm not trying to be negative but for people to be "excited", or think the prospect of him starting is "sexy" seems crazy to me. I know that it's a possibility for him to be or become a good player and it would be a terrific bonus if that turns out to be the case but I would be pretty nervous if he opened the season as our starter.

Where else on our roster do we plan on starting a 5th round pick who hasn't played yet?

I actually agree with this. Kilgore could be an amazing OG at some point. But it is wishful thinking to assume that he can just be plugged in with no struggles and succeed. Anthony Davis is a perfect example of a talented, and raw, player struggling after being forced into a spot on the OL.

I think the Niners are aware of this though, and are at least bringing in a vet to make Kilgore compete with. I will be much more comfortable with Kilgore if he beats a quality FA or draft pick out.

I personally want an OG in the first 3 rounds of the draft. Someone like Silatolu, Zeitler, Brandon Brooks, Brandon Washington or Michael Brewster. I would be fine with RG being a development battle.

[dan77733]

I rather have Shupp starting at RG for us instead of Rachal. Rachal, UGH, I think I just threw up in my mouth. UGH.

[VAfy-ya]

Originally Posted by dan77733

I rather have Shupp starting at RG for us instead of Rachal. Rachal, UGH, I think I just threw up in my mouth. UGH.

Rachal still has a chance if he goes to the right scheme. A place that doesn't ask him to pull alot and doesn't iso him in gaps and gives some help with quicker DTs. He's one of the best run-blocking OGs in the game. When we had Martz, he looked promising because Martz runs alot of 7 step drops with max protect. It was alot of tandem blocking with the Center and RG walling off an area and TEs helping to chip on the outside rushers. And in the run game, it was alot of power and quick traps, things Rachal can do well. When Raye came in and implemented more zone blocking schemes and pulling, it wasnt the best fit to Rachal skill-set. Plus teams learned you could could fluster him with stunts, as he doesnt recognize them as quickly as he should and his footwork is lousy anytime he has to come off one defender and onto another. He's like any other young O-Lineman who has flashed ability but also inability as well, its all about the scheme he goes to and what they ask him to do. Its been said that he maybe isnt as studious at his craft as he should. If that's the case, he defintely needs to improve his work ethic. But he isnt the worst OG in the league, believe it or not.

[Shupp]

Originally Posted by dan77733

I rather have Shupp starting at RG for us instead of Rachal. Rachal, UGH, I think I just threw up in my mouth. UGH.

I'd have to bulk up a bit first, I'm tipping the scales at 185 right now.

I would love Glenn at 30 but I haven't seen a single mock that has him slipping that far (not that that means much). Picking at 30 though...it's impossible to guess who would be there. A lot different than last year when we only had to guess what 6 players would be picked first ( and we were still surprised..lol)

[Shupp]

49ers currently 4.1 mill under the cap, per Matt Maiocco. We will have to make a cut and/or restructure a contract just so we can sign our draft picks...goodbye Anthony Dixon?

[WhatWouldBillyBajemaDo?]

Alex Boone to get crack at Adam Synder's old position:
http://www.csnbayarea.com/football-s...739955 14-766

Would prefer to keep Boone as a backup swing tackle. Don't mind experimenting during OTAs but would rather have him back at tackle, at the start of TC, if this doesn't work out.

[YAYareaRB]

i like that they're at least trying him out there. he seems like a tough, athletic guy. might work

[Rabscuttle]

I believe taking a look at moving Davis inside and having Boone on his shoulder should be given consideration (and it probably has) even with Davis having a large contract for a right guard. Those two together is a lot of angry to deal with.

[Menardo75]

I think they are grooming Person to be that backup swing T/OG guard like Snyder. As long as the best 5 are on the field i'm happy. That is a massive o-line with Boone in there though.

[Borat]

Maybe they think Reiff is going to get to #30 and they can move Davis or Boone inside to RG? I wouldn't mind that at all.

[VAfy-ya]

I like Boone at OT. Nothing wrong with moving guys around and seeing guys in a different light but I think Boone is a natural OT. As much potential I think Davis has at RT, he makes more sense to give a couple of looks inside because he's better trench guy than Boone. But I dont see that happening, not this early in his career anyways. But they re-signed Boone for a reason....kid has talent and they want to see it on the field. Not sure OG is the way the go though.

[49ersfan_87]

Sure this has been posted before, just i'd post it again in case anyone is interested. A complete rundown of our FA period (who we re-signed, signed, let go, etc)

http://www.csnbayarea.com/football-s...90&feedID=2539

Only changes are Brett Swain was re-signed, and Reggie Smith (CAR) and Madieu Williams (WAS) have moved on.

We still have 3 unsigned FA's from our team on the open market- Justin Peele, Moran Norris, and Chilo Rachal.

Norris's career is likely over. Old run-blocking FB. Peele's likely is too, as he's an old blocking TE. But he could find work if someone gets injured midseason. Rachal will get a flyer at some point. Other than that, every FA on our team has been signed by a NFL team and is currently on a roster.

[Madirishman]

I prefer Boone as a valuable swing tackle and I prefer that they keep Davis at RT until he fully matures at the position or they give up on him at that position. Only then should they look to move him into RG as he is a mauler in the run game. Draft someone to compete with Kilgore or take the position outright continue to develop Kilgore as both a guard and a center as he could take over for Goodwin in the next year or two.