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Old 04-10-2012, 08:44 PM    (permalink
descendency
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Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
And there's no way Mike Vick IMO would have been selected when he was if was less than 6 feet tall.
Michael Vick would have went #1 overall at RB if he were 5'6". Being able to run 4.2 and cut without losing speed is unfathomable. Vick is one of the greatest athletes to ever play in the NFL.
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Old 04-10-2012, 08:44 PM    (permalink
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I think any hate the Lions' fans had over taking Matthew Stafford #1 overall was simply past apprehension from mistakes made in the Millen era. But yeah, I understand what you're saying. It can go either way, but with as much need for 1st round QB's, I'd like to think there's a possibility 4-5 QB's might be selected in round one.
I lived in Detroit at the time, and that's exactly what it was. Stafford wasn't a slam dunk, and Curry was supposed to be the safest prospect in the draft. The Lions were still under "The Curse of Bobby Lane" and nobody really trusted that team to not screw the pooch.
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Old 04-10-2012, 08:55 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, I'm originally from Grand Rapids, kinda a displaced fan if you will. I know that was my thought too.
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Old 04-10-2012, 09:38 PM    (permalink
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Michael Vick would have went #1 overall at RB if he were 5'6". Being able to run 4.2 and cut without losing speed is unfathomable. Vick is one of the greatest athletes to ever play in the NFL.

Where did Mike Vick run this mythical 4.2? In Blacksburg. THe same location on campus where Deangelo Hall ran a 4.1.

If Vick had run at the combine he would have been IMO a 4.3 flat. Not implying he didn't have elite athleticism but people throw that 4.2 around like it was an electronic time at Indy.

Mike Vick was a QB, not a RB. And if he had declared for the draft as a RB he still wouldn't have been the 1 overall IMO.

When's the last time a college RB went 1/1?? Even Barry Sanders didn't go 1/1.


Vick is a very odd case to me in that his draft slotting was based IMO almost entirely on mediocre college production, elite mobility and a cannon arm.

QBs less than 6 feet tall don't get taken top 5-10.

Height is that arbitrary measure that distorts the perceptions of scouts when it comes to evaluating pro QB prospects.
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Old 04-10-2012, 11:20 PM    (permalink
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I think Wilson is going to be an anomaly... He has a strong arm and incredible accuracy... Couple that with his speed and overall athleticism and you have a guy who can be a starter in this league despite being 5-10...

I hope the Browns pick him up with their first pick in the fourth round.
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Old 04-10-2012, 11:34 PM    (permalink
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When's the last time a college RB went 1/1?? Even Barry Sanders didn't go 1/1.
Ki-Jana Carter in 1995, if i remember correctly.
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Old 04-10-2012, 11:38 PM    (permalink
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Ki-Jana Carter in 1995, if i remember correctly.
Oops. Forgot about him.
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Old 04-11-2012, 01:30 AM    (permalink
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I'm a big fan of Wilson actually. I think he gets dismissed way too much solely because of his height. He played really well last year. I would look at him in the 4th and later with no issues. He can be a real good long term #2 QB, and on a few teams get a chance to be a solid starter. Are there any other knocks on him other than his height?


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Gimmicky?? The are quite possibly one of the ONLY programs in the country that run a TRUE Pro-Style offense.. You're talking about an offense that utilizes a FB in its Base Offense.. Pro Offense concepts where the Run Game is emphasized.. You're way off base homie
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Old 04-11-2012, 03:35 AM    (permalink
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Had less passes batted down at the line in 2011 than Ryan Tannehill! Needs a little work - primarily on his touch - struggles to make that throw in between 2 defenders. Good arm, great athlete, great leader - better throwing on the move, but the will suit some systems. My main question with him is his baseball career - if he's 3rd string somewhere, does he just pack up and go back to baseball??
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Old 04-11-2012, 12:33 PM    (permalink
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Where would you take Troy Smith?
Russell Wilson is much further along than Troy Smith was coming out.
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Old 04-11-2012, 12:42 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, I really think that there's an exception to every rule. Russell Wilson is the exception, Ryan Tannehill is the rule.

P.S. 2 RB's in the past 30 years or so: Ki-Jana Carter and Bo Jackson. Neither worked out too well for the team that drafted them. Although, I will say this: Plenty of RB's have been taken #2 overall (Bush, Ronnie Brown, M. Faulk) and the difference between #1 and #2 is simply team need.
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Old 04-11-2012, 01:08 PM    (permalink
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Where did Mike Vick run this mythical 4.2? In Blacksburg. THe same location on campus where Deangelo Hall ran a 4.1.

If Vick had run at the combine he would have been IMO a 4.3 flat. Not implying he didn't have elite athleticism but people throw that 4.2 around like it was an electronic time at Indy.

Mike Vick was a QB, not a RB. And if he had declared for the draft as a RB he still wouldn't have been the 1 overall IMO.

When's the last time a college RB went 1/1?? Even Barry Sanders didn't go 1/1.


Vick is a very odd case to me in that his draft slotting was based IMO almost entirely on mediocre college production, elite mobility and a cannon arm.

QBs less than 6 feet tall don't get taken top 5-10.

Height is that arbitrary measure that that distorts the perceptions of scouts when it comes to evaluating pro QB prospects.
Mediocre college production? He lead Virginia Tech. to the NCAA championship game as a redshirt freshman, setting an NCAA freshman record for passing efficiency (third best of all-time to that point), and losing one game (the National Championship) as a starter in his college career.

Vick would have went number one in many years. He is the rare case where you can say he is a once in a generation player and mean it. He was quite possibly the best runner in the NFL along with having the strongest arm. Had he not been an idiot when in Atlanta, we could be talking a Hall of Fame career.
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Old 04-11-2012, 03:16 PM    (permalink
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Face it. If russell wilson was 3 inches taller, he'd be the #4 qb in this class.
He's short, which will be a huge problem in the nfl
But he's got all the intangables and skills an nfl qb should have.
He's a career backup
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Old 04-11-2012, 03:21 PM    (permalink
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I don't agree with that statement at all. If he were 3 inches taller, he'd be the #3 QB in this draft, easily. And I do believe he will start in the NFL.
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Old 04-11-2012, 04:26 PM    (permalink
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People keep saying they seem the next Vick but I see the next Drew Brees, only more athletic.

Drew Brees has show very good pocket mobility, keeping your eyes down field, and feeling the pressure you can overcome hiegh deficiencies. I'd even go far as to say it has helped Brees become a better QB because he has to anticipate better and sometimes has to throw to spots he cant see, which means he needs to be more cerebral and accurate.
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Old 04-11-2012, 05:05 PM    (permalink
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NFL Live just made a fantastic point about Russell Wilson. The guy is tough, has a great arm, he's intelligent, and an all-around good QB prospect. He's a 5th round prospect because he's too short. Really? Wherever this kid is drafted, he's a steal. McShay just said he's a 5th round QB because of his height, I bet some team takes a risk on his talent late in the 3rd.
Being under 6 ft. wasn't a problem for Kurt Warner or Doug Flutie, but they were phenomenal, once in a decade types too.

Everybody was so shocked at his height measurement at the Combine, I never noticed it in games to be honest. Maybe both NC St. & Wisconsin inflated his height in their propaganda press releases.
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Old 04-11-2012, 05:09 PM    (permalink
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Maybe both NC St. & Wisconsin inflated his height in their propaganda press releases.
All schools are guilty of that in certain cases.
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Old 04-11-2012, 05:13 PM    (permalink
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Being under 6 ft. wasn't a problem for Kurt Warner or Doug Flutie, but they were phenomenal, once in a decade types too.

Everybody was so shocked at his height measurement at the Combine, I never noticed it in games to be honest. Maybe both NC St. & Wisconsin inflated his height in their propaganda press releases.
Kurt Warner was 6'2". Also both guys took long winding paths to finally find a place in the NFL including stops USFL, AFL, CFL, & NFL Europe between them.
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Old 04-11-2012, 05:25 PM    (permalink
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Mediocre college production? He lead Virginia Tech. to the NCAA championship game as a redshirt freshman, setting an NCAA freshman record for passing efficiency (third best of all-time to that point), and losing one game (the National Championship) as a starter in his college career.

Vick would have went number one in many years. He is the rare case where you can say he is a once in a generation player and mean it. He was quite possibly the best runner in the NFL along with having the strongest arm. Had he not been an idiot when in Atlanta, we could be talking a Hall of Fame career.

Mike Vick played with one of the nastiest defenses in D1 during his RS frosh and sophomore years.

But his stats were a joke.
RS frosh season; 58% completions/2065yds/13 TDs/5 INts
Rushed for 585 yards and 8 TDs.

RS Soph season; 54% completions/1284yds/8 TDs/6 INTs.
Rushed for 617 yards and 8 TDs.

A guy with those numbers will NEVER be drafted 1/1 overall ever again.

MV was an upside/potential pick because of his tools, however his production for many draft evaluators seemed to have been irrelevant.

For comparison, Cam Newton dwarfed Vick's career numbers in one season at Auburn. And kicker Shayne Graham I would argue was the MVP of that '99 NC Hokies squad, not Vick.

Russell Wilson is better QB prospect as a pure passer coming out that Vick was, but that won't do a thing to help his draft position because of his height.
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Old 04-12-2012, 05:33 PM    (permalink
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Mike Vick played with one of the nastiest defenses in D1 during his RS frosh and sophomore years.

But his stats were a joke.
RS frosh season; 58% completions/2065yds/13 TDs/5 INts
Rushed for 585 yards and 8 TDs.

RS Soph season; 54% completions/1284yds/8 TDs/6 INTs.
Rushed for 617 yards and 8 TDs.

A guy with those numbers will NEVER be drafted 1/1 overall ever again.

MV was an upside/potential pick because of his tools, however his production for many draft evaluators seemed to have been irrelevant.

For comparison, Cam Newton dwarfed Vick's career numbers in one season at Auburn. And kicker Shayne Graham I would argue was the MVP of that '99 NC Hokies squad, not Vick.

Russell Wilson is better QB prospect as a pure passer coming out that Vick was, but that won't do a thing to help his draft position because of his height.
Again, he set a freshman record for efficiency passing and third best ever at the time. He didn't play in the spread. Put him on 2010 Auburn or 2005 Texas and he puts up absurd numbers.

Shane Graham over Vick. Give me a break. We've had a sleuth of talented kickers come through VT over the years and a heaping of top ten defenses. Vick took the program to another level and got us to the national championship game.

He goes number one in MANY drafts.
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Old 04-12-2012, 05:53 PM    (permalink
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Wilson will be a much better NFL QB than Tannehill.
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Old 04-12-2012, 06:28 PM    (permalink
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Anybody else feel the Eagles are the team that will draft him earlier than expected? Reid is likely going to draft defensive early, but could turn around in the 4th/5th and take Wilson as his QB of the future if Reid stays.
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Old 04-12-2012, 06:31 PM    (permalink
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Anybody else feel the Eagles are the team that will draft him earlier than expected? Reid is likely going to draft defensive early, but could turn around in the 4th/5th and take Wilson as his QB of the future if Reid stays.
The 4th/5th isnt exactly earlier than expected.
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Old 04-12-2012, 06:50 PM    (permalink
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The 4th/5th isnt exactly earlier than expected.
I've seen some places have him rated in the 6th-UDFA range, he will be the shortest QB in the NFL once he is on a team. That will scare some teams away completely, but Reid will be able to work through that I think with a mid round pick.
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Old 04-12-2012, 11:13 PM    (permalink
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He's got 1st round talent. Unfortunately, nobody is going to invest a 1st rounder for a franchise QB who is under 6 feet tall.

It's just not good for business.

Vick probably would've been drafted 1st overall if he was the same height as Wilson, but he had unreal athleticism for the position at the time.
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